Biden to grovel before Khashoggi's murderer/the Butcher of Yemen in exchange for lower gas prices.

[GP270watch]

 The president of Toyota North America was doing an event and he said his American and Canadian dealers are pressuring him to deliver more hybrids and EV's. It's pretty clear the tide is turning on gasoline only vehicles.

[jojoju1998]

My Dad has a 2004 Toyota Tundra that gets around 14/18 gas mileage wise.

And he's not a big fan of the " liberal woke " stuff.

And even he is considering getting a hybrid/electric car.

[Aurelius]

This is one of the most hilariously, cluelessly privileged things I have read on this website. New cars are more expensive than ever. And the used car market is even more ridiculous.  Furthermore hybrid and electric cars are especially expensive, and the infrastructure for electric vehicles is an extra challenge especially if you don't own your own home with its own parking spot.  Soaring gas prices are already bad enough, but buying a brand new vehicle is even more expensive.  The median vehicle on the road is 11 years old. All the fancy new sensors and doodads that the government is now requiring on all new vehicles have shot prices through the roof.

1/22 average new car price: $46,404
1/22 average used car price: $28,205
Base model Chevy Bolt (260 mile range): $32,000

This doesn't even get into the true cost of ownership: over the years, an EV owner will save thousands in combined fuel and maintenance costs compared to a combustion vehicle. It's already perfectly feasible and cost-effective to go electric if you're not looking for a higher end vehicle. For the Bolt specifically, taking into account all the major factors for the first five years of ownership (average maintenance costs, fuel costs, insurance costs, etc), buying the base model is roughly equivalent to buying a $24-25k combustion vehicle. Most people are idiots, however, and only consider the monthly sticker price rather than what they'll actually shell out over the lifetime of a car or the rare occasion they might drive 200+ miles in a single day.

None of this really matters, though: over the past year alone, the percentage of new vehicle sales that are EV went from 2% to over 6%. In a few years time, that share will likely be well north of 20%. Major manufacturers are already preparing for the 2030-2035 phase out of combustion engines. The simple fact is that oil is by far used for transportation, and even in just a few years, the amount of oil the US will need per capita is going to begin substantially dropping. What we use to power the replacement energy is a bigger concern.

Glad to hear I was wrong about this. Definitely a big change from a decade ago. The charging infrastructure is still a major issue for many.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Glad to hear I was wrong about this. Definitely a big change from a decade ago. The charging infrastructure is still a major issue for many.

This is also my dad's reason for not buying an electric car and I would assume a great many other people's as well.

Fortunately Biden is on it.

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/president-biden-usdot-and-usdoe-announce-5-billion-over-five-years-national-ev-charging

[Santander]

A few things to keep in mind.

1. Gas cars today are more fuel efficient than ever, even the trucks. The 2022 Ford F150 gets 25 miles a gallon average, which is spectacular for a gas truck. We even have hybrid trucks now. And Tesla might have a electric truck to boot.

2. The shift to full online work or partial online work will mean that people will commute less. Something different huh ?

3. Many states don't have the charging infrastructure ( many rural states for example ), and even in California, Chico might not have the charging stations compared to say Palo Alto.

Braindead non sequitur from you, as usual.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

The planet is dying. We need clean energy, public transit, and ecologically efficient infrastructure, not more oil. Dropping bombs also has a big carbon footprint, oh yeah, and it kills people. A lot of them.

Not much of our oil came from Russia anyway, but if we want to pretend we care about dead Ukranians and if we want to pretend higher gas prices are our sacrifice for dead Ukranians, we need a hard divorce from the country that has killed more people with our weapons for a longer amount of time with no end in sight while holding a stranglehold on the entire Middle East by pursuing a bipolar, with-me-or-against me cold war against Iran an its allies. And the Saudis want nukes, and I'm not convinced we won't allow that when the time comes.

This, of course, comes as no surprise at all. We knew Biden would be the same as every president on Saudi relations when he campaigned on ending support for the genocide in Yemen, got elected, and changed his tune to saying that we will only stop supporting Saudi's offensive operations in Yemen but will continue to support their defensive operations.

Disappointed and ashamed, but not surprised in the slightest. Biden shows pathetic weakness when it comes to gas prices and their affect on political capital, between this and drilling into the US reserves to lower prices for a week.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If you think that keeping oil flowing involves some unsavory compromises, wait until you learn about material supply chains for electric batteries. The shift to renewable energy does not solve this problem.

There are a lot of disturbing political and moral assumptions in the Dune books--Al's mixed review of the first book on this forum goes into some of them--but the fundamental "the Spice must flow" concept underlying most of their conflicts is evergreen, and was already evergreen when they were written considering the sordid history of trade and natural-resources policy before the discovery of petroleum.

Not that any of this makes the ridiculous circular "the Saudis are better than the Iranians because they're our allies, and we know this because they wouldn't be our allies if they weren't" arguments from the "this is fine" dogs of the foreign policy establishment any less reprehensible.

What do you want Biden to do

It would be nice if he could actually credibly threaten to meaningfully restrict the weirdo scamming cultists in Riyadh's blank check on American arms if they don't stop using muh gas prices to extort the American public, for starters.

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Look, I don’t like Saudi Arabia more than anybody else here, but the truth is, we depend on them for oil and ignoring them would be suicide and not something we can do, especially with gas prices this high. I do not like Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately there are little options RN.

[Schiff for Senate]

Look, I don’t like Saudi Arabia more than anybody else here, but the truth is, we depend on them for oil and ignoring them would be suicide and not something we can do, especially with gas prices this high. I do not like Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately there are little options RN.

This. I've said these same things since GMac and Santander made their points, but you put it more concisely. I would add that Biden had better use this as an opportunity to at least begin the transition to renewable ASAP though.

[All Along The Watchtower]

we do not depend on Saudi Arabia for oil ffs

[Santander]

we do not depend on Saudi Arabia for oil ffs

I mean, the US does not import a great deal of oil from Saudi Arabia, but its unparalleled ability to ramp up and down production is at the core of the US-Saudi relationship and the global energy market. So while the US may not strictly depend on Saudi Arabia for oil, it does depend on Saudi Arabia for oil production.

That is the greatest argument in favor of working with Saudi Arabia - you could work with Iran and Venezuela to open the taps on their beleaguered oil industries, but Saudi Arabia can put by far the most oil on the market in a short period of time. (UAE has a lot of spare capacity, but they will not step on Saudi Arabia's toes) And their leaders will continue to literally get away with murder because they have the world on bended knee at the altar of black gold.

[All Along The Watchtower]

To be clear, “we” do depend on Saudi Arabia’s oil wealth to help prop up the US arms industry, the stock market, venture capital firms, top lobbying firms and think tanks…

[MR DARK BRANDON]

Look, I don’t like Saudi Arabia more than anybody else here, but the truth is, we depend on them for oil and ignoring them would be suicide and not something we can do, especially with gas prices this high. I do not like Saudi Arabia, but unfortunately there are little options RN.

This. I've said these same things since GMac and Santander made their points, but you put it more concisely. I would add that Biden had better use this as an opportunity to at least begin the transition to renewable ASAP though.

Ye one thing I’ve noticed with Biden, with most things he does regardless of weather I agree or disagree with it, there is almost always a good reason behind it.

[GeneralMacArthur]

If you think that keeping oil flowing involves some unsavory compromises, wait until you learn about material supply chains for electric batteries. The shift to renewable energy does not solve this problem.

There are a lot of disturbing political and moral assumptions in the Dune books--Al's mixed review of the first book on this forum goes into some of them--but the fundamental "the Spice must flow" concept underlying most of their conflicts is evergreen, and was already evergreen when they were written considering the sordid history of trade and natural-resources policy before the discovery of petroleum.

Not that any of this makes the ridiculous circular "the Saudis are better than the Iranians because they're our allies, and we know this because they wouldn't be our allies if they weren't" arguments from the "this is fine" dogs of the foreign policy establishment any less reprehensible.

What do you want Biden to do

It would be nice if he could actually credibly threaten to meaningfully restrict the weirdo scamming cultists in Riyadh's blank check on American arms if they don't stop using muh gas prices to extort the American public, for starters.

I've noticed lately that a lot of Biden's critics, when asked what they would do in his place, spin up these fantasies involving blackmail and threats to bully some other party into compliance.  We see it on an near-weekly basis with demands that Biden imprison Manchin's daughter or denounce Kyrsten Sinema from a lectern.  You know Trump did stuff like this and it didn't work, right?  It's basically this desire for Biden to be more aesthetically similar to Trump, despite the entire premise of his presidency being that he would do the opposite.  Trump didn't actually accomplish much, whereas Biden is accomplishing things, but he doesn't seem like a strong arrogant bully, which is what people really want, so they hate him and miss Trump.

[Leo]

eehhh...   You are wrong.  The United States was a net oil EXPORTER in 2020 and 2021.  On a net basis we don't need to get oil from elsewhere.  The problem is oil is traded on a global market.  And if oil is trading at a higher price our unpatriotic oil companies simply ship it overseas regardless of how high gas prices are for consumers.

We have to get others to pump to get prices down overseas.

Let's stop posting this BS about the US needing other people's oil or needing to loosen regulations so oil companies pump more.  That is not the problem.

All these other countries are looking at us crazy because we have enough oil to supply our needs.

It's more complicated than that. The global energy market helps balance supply and demand between countries and regions. For example, some regions (Europe/Latin America) higher relative demand for middle distillates than the US, so it makes sense for the US, which has enormous refining capacity, to export middle distillates to those regions, while Europe exports light distillates to the US. Canada is a huge supplier of crude to American refineries, but has very limited refining capacity itself, so it makes sense for the US to buy cheap crude from Canada and sell back a portion of the much higher-value refined petroleum products. (not to mention bitumen from the tar sands can't even move in a pipeline by itself, so needs imported oil to move it along in the pipe)

The energy market is one of the areas where global trade is most crucial, and having an overly-simplistic nationalist view does not solve any problems.

You are of course correct but I was not going to get into that level of complexity given the audience I was speaking to.  The fact of the matter is we are a NET EXPORTER of oil and oil is a global market.  We can't just keep pumping more and more oil at home to solve a global problem.

Very low inventories of oil products in the United States and a shortage of refining capacity have laid the foundations for an oil shortage crisis in the United States this summer, Paul Sankey, Lead Analyst at Sankey Research, told CNBC in an interview on Thursday.  

"I just don't think there's anything the Administration can do about it," Sankey said, referring to the fact that a refinery cannot be built in time to ease the gasoline and diesel crunch.

Asked about what would happen if an operating refinery were to stop production because of an accident or a hurricane, Sankey said, "we're on the verge of a U.S. oil crisis as it is, obviously what I'm talking about is shortages."

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Analyst-Warns-Of-A-Fuel-Shortage-Crisis-In-The-US.html

And the other point I made that flew over that poster's head is the oil execs have made it clear they could pump more oil but they aren't going to do the CAPEX.  They are instead going to keep the money as CEO bonuses, dividends, and stock buy backs.

Under current market conditions and given our free cash flow yield, we continue to believe buybacks remain an excellent use of capital and consisting with that view, our Board of Directors has increased our outstanding buyback authorization $2.5 billion...

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4509217-marathon-oil-the-buyback-tsunami-is-underway

What happened to "drill baby drill?"  Now it is "take the money and run."

[All Along The Watchtower]

Regardless of muh oil or Iran, it’s abundantly clear that the US-Saudi alliance is of mutual benefit to elites in both countries.

The benefits for ordinary people in both countries? Dubious.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If you think that keeping oil flowing involves some unsavory compromises, wait until you learn about material supply chains for electric batteries. The shift to renewable energy does not solve this problem.

There are a lot of disturbing political and moral assumptions in the Dune books--Al's mixed review of the first book on this forum goes into some of them--but the fundamental "the Spice must flow" concept underlying most of their conflicts is evergreen, and was already evergreen when they were written considering the sordid history of trade and natural-resources policy before the discovery of petroleum.

Not that any of this makes the ridiculous circular "the Saudis are better than the Iranians because they're our allies, and we know this because they wouldn't be our allies if they weren't" arguments from the "this is fine" dogs of the foreign policy establishment any less reprehensible.

What do you want Biden to do

It would be nice if he could actually credibly threaten to meaningfully restrict the weirdo scamming cultists in Riyadh's blank check on American arms if they don't stop using muh gas prices to extort the American public, for starters.

I've noticed lately that a lot of Biden's critics, when asked what they would do in his place, spin up these fantasies involving blackmail and threats to bully some other party into compliance.  We see it on an near-weekly basis with demands that Biden imprison Manchin's daughter or denounce Kyrsten Sinema from a lectern.  You know Trump did stuff like this and it didn't work, right?  It's basically this desire for Biden to be more aesthetically similar to Trump, despite the entire premise of his presidency being that he would do the opposite.  Trump didn't actually accomplish much, whereas Biden is accomplishing things, but he doesn't seem like a strong arrogant bully, which is what people really want, so they hate him and miss Trump.

Are you reading my posts in the least charitable possible light on purpose, or is it just a reflex that kicks in when someone criticizes the Biden administration from the left?

[It’s so Joever]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

[Santander]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

Iranian women at least participate in society to a meaningful degree. Hardly a shining example of women's rights, but compared to Saudi Arabia...

[Cassandra]

The Bolt is also considerably smaller than the typical American vehicle. I don't think that's an unreasonable compromise for the typical household, but it's a consumer choice issue that limits its appeal. The Bolt would be a trade down for most drivers even if it didn't have a 200 mile range limitation.

Then again, if gas remains as expensive as it is now for years, a lot of people will decide that they don't need three rows of seats for one or two children, or a full-size pick-up truck for their commute to the office. Maybe we'll even get reasonably sized pick-up trucks on the market again.

Oh man, I wish small pick ups like the old Ford rangers would make a comeback. I'm a construction worker, so I can genuinely get some use out of a pickup, but I don't need some gas guzzling behemoth. Especially since I live in a city, and might need to parallel park from time to time.

[KaiserDave]

Reading some of the posts here is sickening. What do we want Biden to do? What he promised!

Show some flipping leadership! There's no weird counter-solution involving "demands that Biden imprison Manchin's daughter or denounce Kyrsten Sinema from a lectern." We are asking him to implement the program he campaigned on, including ending all support for the Saudi war in Yemen. It's very indicative that GMac mentions nothing about the Saudi-caused humanitarian disaster in Yemen in his posts on that conflict, and essentially gives the Saudi regime a blank cheque for their war crimes and human rights violations. Biden promised a foreign policy based on the promotion of human rights, bowing to one of the most evil regimes in the world is an embarrassment and it makes him a liar, and GMac makes himself a fool with his contortions to defend anything Biden does. And I say this as someone who largely approves of Biden's foreign policy, it tells you a lot that Biden is probably the least pro-Saudi of our last three Presidents! How embarrassing. When the left asks for leadership, at the very least not kowtowing to a criminal-state, we are dismissed in so silly a fashion.

[S019]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

Iran hates us and has for decades, Saudi Arabia doesn’t. It’s really that simple.

[Santander]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

Iran hates us and has for decades, Saudi Arabia doesn’t. It’s really that simple.

I wonder why Iran hates us... really struggling to find any reasons.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

Iran hates us and has for decades, Saudi Arabia doesn’t. It’s really that simple.

Saudi Arabia absolutely hates the US along with most of the less authoritarian world, and wages war on its Muslim populations by turbocharging the funding of Wahhabi mosques meant to stamp out other expressions of the faith.

The determination to have a war in the Middle East post-9/11 was disastrous and evil, but if one was inevitable, the least the MIC could have done was picked the most destabilising country in the Middle East. By that point, Saddam's Iraq didn't hold the title.

[S019]

Tbh I don’t even think Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.

Iran hates us and has for decades, Saudi Arabia doesn’t. It’s really that simple.

I wonder why Iran hates us... really struggling to find any reasons.

The coup of Mossadegh was the brainchild of MI6, not the CIA. Sure America had some involvement, but they were not the main orchestrators. Also the current government of Iran is totally insane and America really should've just crushed the revolution in its infancy in 1978.