Anglican Church appears to be fraying at the seams

[Torie]

I was unaware of this contretemps, but it really does seem to be that way. It has made itself look ridiculous. It really should split up. The head guy, this Welby character, seems to be trying  to bridge the unbridgeable - the institution is the thing, not the flock. That is just not going to fly long term methinks. I do like the costuming though. It's less gaudy than the Catholic sartorial presentation. Very tasteful.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/01/world/australia/anglican-church-homosexuality-new-zealand.html

So even if reading about the internecine tensions of this church is just not your cup of tea, and even if you have SSM controversy burnout, the article is worth clicking on just to view the stunning visual image. It's dead bang gorgeous really. Very pleasingly symmetrical to boot. Too bad copyright law precludes me from splashing it directly on to this page.

How is the CEO of this outfit picked I wonder? Yeah I know, by the British monarch, but how is "he" really picked? (Yes, I don't see a female being picked for another century of two myself assuming the outfit lasts that long.)

It seems that something called the "Crown Appointments Commission" has a key role in the process. What's that?

https://www.churchofengland.org/about/leadership-and-governance/crown-nominations-commission

OK, got it. And its members seem to all be very British looking white people. That does not seem very inclusive now does it? But then, that means all those homophobic prelates/laity from the third world just aren't there. So what is their excuse then for having selected this Welby guy?

https://www.churchofengland.org/about/leadership-and-governance/crown-nominations-commission

I think I want to be the UK king for a day, and perhaps cause a Constitutional crisis by summoning the Archbishop of Canterbury and giving him a good dressing down in full regalia (crown included). That would be fun. Would a gay be eligible to be king?

[afleitch]

It's a very weird obsession; to centre your religious orthodoxy on sexuality. It feels very powerful, as a queer person, to see such power in your queerness that it can break or brain worm ancient religious institutions. But it's also very sad, particularly for those who just want to get on with their lives.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Name a more iconic duo than Anglicanism and fractiousness/quasi-schism over homosexuality. I'll wait.

It's increasingly a defining problem of other Protestantisms of English origin, such as Methodism, as well.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The big problem isn't the Church of England (or e.g. the Church in Wales) but the wider 'Anglican Communion' which increasingly feels pointless and untenable. Welby is very attached to the concept as he spent a lot of time in Nigeria before he became a clergyman and, to be blunt about it, I think the resulting sentiment often clouds his judgment.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The big problem isn't the Church of England (or e.g. the Church in Wales) but the wider 'Anglican Communion' which increasingly feels pointless and untenable. Welby is very attached to the concept as he spent a lot of time in Nigeria before he became a clergyman and, to be blunt about it, I think the resulting sentiment often clouds his judgment.

Welby was an oil man before, wasn't he?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Welby was an oil man before, wasn't he?

Yes, and mostly worked for companies then doing a lot of exploratory work in West Africa.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Welby was an oil man before, wasn't he?

Yes, and mostly worked for companies then doing a lot of exploratory work in West Africa.

How'd he go from that to Bishop, seems like a tough Carrer change.

[Torie]

Welby was an oil man before, wasn't he?

Yes, and mostly worked for companies then doing a lot of exploratory work in West Africa.

How'd he go from that to Bishop, seems like a tough Carrer change.

Read all about him. Of most interest to me is his conversion experience was attended by a speaking in tongues experience. The chap still does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Welby

“In a 2013 interview with The Daily Telegraph, Welby related his conversion experience when he was a student at Trinity College, Cambridge. He said that, while he was at Eton, he had "vaguely assumed there was a God. But I didn't believe. I wasn't interested at all." However, during the evening of 12 October 1975 in Cambridge, praying with a Christian friend, Welby said that he suddenly felt "a clear sense of something changing, the presence of something that had not been there before in my life". He said to his friend, "Please don't tell anyone about this." Welby said that he was desperately embarrassed that this had happened to him. He has since said that his time at Cambridge was a major moment of self-realisation in his life.[19] At the age of 19, he began speaking in tongues.”

And oh yes, this bit:

“He also stated that while homophobia was a sin, he did not consider it homophobic to oppose gay sex.”

I think I have heard that one before actually. Oh, the joy of being a sexless gay. How many here can bear witness to that?  To be a catty little bitch for a moment, I find this guy trite and boring. I really do.

[afleitch]

It's interesting how colonial it all is. Not necessarily in the way you'd expect with white conservatives white knighting for the African churches, but hearing about the Australian church trying to interfere with New Zealand.

The Church of England wouldn't dare directly interfere with the Episcopalian Church in Scotland, despite it also taking a generally affirming stance. Probably because of far more historic and... bloody reasons.

Reminds me need to do a tally; the Presbyterian, Episcopalian and Methodist churches in Scotland are generally affirming, or adopt a stance that allows for both stances without schism which pretty much covers the major denominations (except one obviously). That seems quite high for the Anglosphere. But I've never measured.

[Pacific Republican]

The hardest part about Anglicanism is finding people who are LGBT-affirming but not libs.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How'd he go from that to Bishop, seems like a tough Carrer change.

Disillusionment with the nature of his job combined with his pre-existing strong religiosity to trigger the conviction that he had a vocation to become a clergyman. His unusually rapid rise subsequently is not so surprising: the CofE is a large bureaucracy which means that people who are familiar with tidy filing systems and managerial and/or administrative experience are always in demand.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Name a more iconic duo than Anglicanism and fractiousness/quasi-schism over homosexuality. I'll wait.

The Sydney Diocese and an irrational fear of anything “Catholic”?

Ban the chasuble. Try to ban Aboriginal smoke ceremonies because it’s kinda like the thurible. Allowing lay presidency of the Eucharist just to trigger Anglo-Catholics upset at Deacons doing it. Recognise ACNA. And so much more (speaking as an occasional partitioner myself)

There’s something incredibly ironic that the most Anglo-Catholic (or “liberal” as the media prefers) dioceses are rural areas like Wangaratta whilst the most staunchly evangelical and hardline conservative diocese is the metropolis of Sydney!

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

It's a very weird obsession; to centre your religious orthodoxy on sexuality. It feels very powerful, as a queer person, to see such power in your queerness that it can break or brain worm ancient religious institutions. But it's also very sad, particularly for those who just want to get on with their lives.

Thank you for expressing something I've often felt but haven't really been able to put into words. I've always felt this sense of dreadful 'awe' at the fact that homophobes and people/institutions who believe themselves to be in some cultural 'war' with homosexuality are willing to tear themselves apart over my existence. As a gay man who has known I'm not 'heteronormative' literally since I was a child it's an odd experience to grow up being at the center of a massive culture war and having people/groups have such strong opinions on your existence before you even learn of theirs.

[LabourJersey]

The big problem isn't the Church of England (or e.g. the Church in Wales) but the wider 'Anglican Communion' which increasingly feels pointless and untenable. Welby is very attached to the concept as he spent a lot of time in Nigeria before he became a clergyman and, to be blunt about it, I think the resulting sentiment often clouds his judgment.

I wouldn't say that the Communion is pointless (I think there's a lot of value in having some link with other Churches who have the same religious foundations) but it is getting pretty untenable. On top of the sexuality divide, you have the tension between the rapidly-growing churches in Africa and elsewhere versus the aging Anglo-American churches. It's an unfortunate situation, and it's unclear how one can keep the Communion going with these chasms.