Is this wwii video propaganda?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 12:39:38 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  Is this wwii video propaganda?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Is this wwii video propaganda?  (Read 294 times)
OdonTrail
Rookie
**
Posts: 34
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: June 21, 2022, 03:53:38 PM »



Because it’s no different than how I was taught it in school.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2022, 06:16:34 PM »
« Edited: June 21, 2022, 06:21:27 PM by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

2:40 Wars can shift purpose as they occur to address the root causes that led to them.

3:42 Jacksonians represent the decisive plurality when it comes to foreign policy. This leads to support for isolationism and/or restraint in peace time and then a militant desire to defeat the enemy once attacked. Bush was able to rally this support after 911, but lost it as Iraq dragged on and the purpose/links became so ambiguous as to make the whole effort a misdirect. So I don't really disagree here, often times people tend to presume everyone supports things for the "desired reasons", without considering diverse motivations. Neocons fall into this trap.

4:40 Foreign Policy realism tends to triumph over "idealism" and rightfully so. There is a Historia Civilis video that goes over Realist-Idealist/Liberal-Marxist divide on foreign affairs, which I linked in this very long post.

5:10 Agreed Conservatism is incompatible with Nazism. Will come back to this later in the video.

6:00 Yes

9:56 Agreed

Another Conservative angle that can be taken, that isn't solely dependent on religion (though such is of course relevant I prefer multiple angles to support a contention), is that the Nazis were fundamentally revolutionary and fundamentally utopian as well. This is a concept that I laid out my extremely long post linked above. Conservatism is by nature anti-utopian and when it falls prey to utopian thinking, it represents a degeneration of conservatism in that instance or an appropriation by a movement like say Nazism that is hostile to conservative tenets. Lastly, Nazism was a form of mass politics, which traditional conservatives are skeptical of or even outright disdainful of, owing to their views on human nature being so prone to fallibility. I hold this element to be more of a core tenet than even religion, because arguably religion itself is a means by which this is addressed and corrected. This is in opposition to most all other ideologies, which depend on an inflated view of human nature.

11:39 I agree in part, but that being said just because you are putting practicality first, doesn't mean that you aren't advancing your own interests. He does say Nazism is hostile to western civilization and while Communism may be the "bigger threat", you "fight the war you are in now" and as he said they declared war on us/attacked us. So yea.

12:25 But Nazism is still anti-western and eliminating that advances and secures western civilization, which includes various philosophical elements regarding individual rights, free market capitalism etc. Sure, it leaves a bigger threat, which is why we have the Cold War, but he hasn't really established his core premise by saying this.

13:18 The natural conservative position on foreign policy, is restraint in the use of power and realism with which you interact with the world. I am certainly pro-Ukraine but I would never support direct military intervention there.

14:14 Sure but I would not extend that defense to Trump. I don't think Trump is a nazi, but I do think his views conflict with conservatism when it comes to the concentration of power, the responsibility of governance and also the unleashing of majoritarian mobs.

15:52 Again, I don't think you have to abandon the "war of ideas" to make the case against communism. Conservatism is hostile to both and we waged a shooting war with one and a cold war with another.

16:48 The superiority of our equipment and the fighting spirit of our people is in part because of the ideals on which are system is built and the ways in which they reward accomplishment and individual achievement.

17:33 I get what he is trying to do but this is borderline cringe. No, the constitution did not storm the beaches, but our constitution is a manifestation of our system and the values on which our civilization is based and those values are what makes people want to fight to preserve a country or defend it when attacked and grow tired of endless wars that don't serve that purpose.

18:00 The problem is that American Nationalism has to be based on "ideas" because there is no such thing as an "American Race" or "ethnic group". Americans come from all over the world and unite because of a shared set of values and ideas. I would argue that rejecting that premise opens the door to insidious forms of nationalism, based on race, ethnicity or geographic area.

I with with about 80% of this video.
1. I don't like the idea of draining out the values/ideas behind the very American Nationalism he is advocating for. Embracing America's traditional values, doesn't equate to endorsing globalism and for over a century, those values went hand in hand with a policy of isolation going back to Washington himself.
2. Arguing who was worse between Nazis and Communists is a waste of time and like he acknowledged, will be the source of much distracting arguments, and arguing about who killed more, ignores the fundamental core aspects that actually dictate why both are viewed with hostility by Conservatives and why both are hostile to American values and traditions.
3. Religion is a key component of conservatism, but it is not the only one and stopping there doesn't get to the deeper one, which concerns the negative view of human nature. That in turn explains the importance of religion as well as underline how Conservatism differs from libertarianism, populism, liberalism, socialism, communism, fascism and Nazism. Its a view that conservatives would share with reactionaries though, but reactionaries are often too comfortable with expanding state power for a conservative to embrace. 

Logged
Meclazine for Israel
Meclazine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,661
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2022, 03:57:33 AM »

He does make some interesting points.

"The left does indeed use Nazism to demonise conservatives when they have an issue they are arguing about. Turns out that it just has nothing to do with Nazism at all"

Clearly, this guy has been on Atlas forums and been monitoring our discussions.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.213 seconds with 12 queries.