If Hispanics are protected under VRA, why aren't Orthodox Jews and Amish?

[David Hume]

Hispanic is an ethnic, not a race, and so is Orthodox Jews and Amish. If they are protected under VRA, so should Orthodox Jews and Amish.

[Donerail]

The Amish are highly averse to litigation and generally do not engage in it. When they do, it is typically aimed to carve out exemptions from general state mandates (paying Social Security tax, for instance, or mandatory school attendance), not to win themselves special protections. They also usually do not vote, so the idea of an Amish lawsuit to win them more representation in the government they do not want to engage with seems antithetical to their core principles.

[brucejoel99]

Hispanics are protected under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act because the said section prohibits not just the drawing of district plans that'd result in racial groups having "less opportunity than other members of the electorate to... elect representatives of their choice," but the drawing of such districts that'd result in the same for language minorities as well.

Pursuant to 1986's Thornburg v. Gingles, a language-or-racial minority group must be "sufficiently large and geographically compact to constitute a majority in a single-member district," so, to answer the why of your question: Black & Hispanic communities end up entitled to minority representation in redistricting under the VRA because of their sufficiently large, eligible minority populations in sufficiently geographically-compact areas, which neither Orthodox Jews nor the Amish have.

As for the how, Orthodox Jews aren't a language minority, & while Hasidic Jews are, typically speaking Yiddish natively, there's at most 100K of them in Brooklyn; re: the Amish, they're also a language minority, in light of the German, but there are only ~345K total Amish people in the entire U.S., the largest populations being found in PA, with ~82K Amish people, OH with ~78K, & Indiana with 59K. For comparison, RI-01, the least populated congressional district in the nation, has an estimated 539,250 residents. So, neither community gets a seat because neither is entitled to one under the VRA.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because basing districts on religion would be a First Amendment violation.

[David Hume]

Hispanics are protected under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act because the said section prohibits not just the drawing of district plans that'd result in racial groups having "less opportunity than other members of the electorate to... elect representatives of their choice," but the drawing of such districts that'd result in the same for language minorities as well.

Pursuant to 1986's Thornburg v. Gingles, a language-or-racial minority group must be "sufficiently large and geographically compact to constitute a majority in a single-member district," so, to answer the why of your question: Black & Hispanic communities end up entitled to minority representation in redistricting under the VRA because of their sufficiently large, eligible minority populations in sufficiently geographically-compact areas, which neither Orthodox Jews nor the Amish have.

As for the how, Orthodox Jews aren't a language minority, & while Hasidic Jews are, typically speaking Yiddish natively, there's at most 100K of them in Brooklyn; re: the Amish, they're also a language minority, in light of the German, but there are only ~345K total Amish people in the entire U.S., the largest populations being found in PA, with ~82K Amish people, OH with ~78K, & Indiana with 59K. For comparison, RI-01, the least populated congressional district in the nation, has an estimated 539,250 residents. So, neither community gets a seat because neither is entitled to one under the VRA.

A lot of Latinos already cease to speak Spanish as mother tongue. Asian as a whole is neither one language nor one racial minority, since their native languages are completely different, and also a lot of them only speak English, and the Chinese and Indian are obviously not one race. Yet they are usually drawn together in one VRA seat. According to these standards, Orthodox Jews should qualify as well.

Besides, VRA also applies in state elections. And there exists something called "opportunity seats" (which IMHO do not satisfy Gingles) which could apply to them.

Besides, VRA also applies to state elections, where their numbers are large enough.

[brucejoel99]

Hispanics are protected under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act because the said section prohibits not just the drawing of district plans that'd result in racial groups having "less opportunity than other members of the electorate to... elect representatives of their choice," but the drawing of such districts that'd result in the same for language minorities as well.

Pursuant to 1986's Thornburg v. Gingles, a language-or-racial minority group must be "sufficiently large and geographically compact to constitute a majority in a single-member district," so, to answer the why of your question: Black & Hispanic communities end up entitled to minority representation in redistricting under the VRA because of their sufficiently large, eligible minority populations in sufficiently geographically-compact areas, which neither Orthodox Jews nor the Amish have.

As for the how, Orthodox Jews aren't a language minority, & while Hasidic Jews are, typically speaking Yiddish natively, there's at most 100K of them in Brooklyn; re: the Amish, they're also a language minority, in light of the German, but there are only ~345K total Amish people in the entire U.S., the largest populations being found in PA, with ~82K Amish people, OH with ~78K, & Indiana with 59K. For comparison, RI-01, the least populated congressional district in the nation, has an estimated 539,250 residents. So, neither community gets a seat because neither is entitled to one under the VRA.

A lot of Latinos already cease to speak Spanish as mother tongue. Asian as a whole is neither one language nor one racial minority, since their native languages are completely different, and also a lot of them only speak English, and the Chinese and Indian are obviously not one race. Yet they are usually drawn together in one VRA seat. According to these standards, Orthodox Jews should qualify as well.

That's why there's a language question in the Census that collects detailed data about languages used at home in the U.S. Plus, for apportionment purposes, the Asian race is treated as a single racial minority comprised of those "having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam." Again, the Hasidic Jewish sect could congressionally qualify on account of Yiddish... if their population in Brooklyn were ~5x as larger as it is today; the Pennsylvania Dutch could congressionally qualify on account of German... if their population were ~7x as big as today.

Besides, VRA also applies in state elections. And there exists something called "opportunity seats" (which IMHO do not satisfy Gingles) which could apply to them.

Opportunity seats clearly satisfy Gingles' holding that the essence of a discriminatory results claim alleging vote dilution is that a certain electoral law, practice, or structure interacts with social & historical conditions to cause an inequality in the opportunities enjoyed by minority voters to elect their preferred representatives. If anything, the status quo in which states can pack minority voters into 1 seat even when it's clearly possible to draw 2 comfortable majority-minority seats doesn't.

Besides, VRA also applies to state elections, where their numbers are large enough.

Yes, but NYC's ~500K Orthodox Jews are represented by 3 state lawmakers - 2 in Brooklyn & 1 in Queens - & when the avg. size of a NY Assembly district is ~130K people, there's no need for a Section 2 claim because the Orthodox Jews, while clearly sufficiently large to elect a representative of its choice & politically cohesive, are already capable of casting their ballots sufficiently as a bloc to not see their preferred candidates as a bloc defeated by surrounding majorities.

As for the Amish, their PA population of ~81K entitles them to 1 seat in the PA General Assembly, the avg. apportionment of which is ~63K/district, but that's really rather moot in light of the fact that the Amish neither vote nor even seek office!

[Del Tachi]

Gingles is only part of the equation; you still need "a totality of circumstances" that prevents minority candidates from being elected, such as a history of official discrimination or lack of winning candidates.  Some of the 1982 Senate factors would seem to cut in favor of Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn, but (as has been pointed out) they aren't a language or racial minority. 

[NewYorkExpress]

Orthodox Jews probably should be, at least if you want the VRA to actually work correctly.

The Amish on the other hand, can't be protected under the VRA because they don't participate in government in the first place.

However, it can be argued that basing congressional districts on religious affiliation violates the First Amendment. That's a fair argument, and it's probably the only reason Orthodox Jews aren't currently protected by the Voting Rights Act right now.

[kwabbit]

Amish are simply not populous enough. As others said, they try to avoid participating in government in the first place, so there's no movement for them to win protection. Additionally, when they do vote, they typically vote Republican, and every Amish area is already represented by Republicans.

The Orthodox Jewish are another question. Various Jewish minorities comprise a few hundred thousand in Brooklyn. They might be a third of a district, but not yet a majority. It's important to remember that they are absolutely exploding in population. It's only been recently that they've become populous enough to even warrant discussion of being a protected group with an influence district. By 2030, they might be populous enough where they simply cannot be ignored congressionally and there will have to be a South Brooklyn district which would be dominated by them. It's easy to see a scenario with the current population trends where the setup is a South Brooklyn Orthodox seat, a Black-Hispanic Seat in Western half of Black Brooklyn, and the Eastern Brooklyn Black seat.

[brucejoel99]

Amish are simply not populous enough. As others said, they try to avoid participating in government in the first place, so there's no movement for them to win protection. Additionally, when they do vote, they typically vote Republican, and every Amish area is already represented by Republicans.

The Orthodox Jewish are another question. Various Jewish minorities comprise a few hundred thousand in Brooklyn. They might be a third of a district, but not yet a majority. It's important to remember that they are absolutely exploding in population. It's only been recently that they've become populous enough to even warrant discussion of being a protected group with an influence district. By 2030, they might be populous enough where they simply cannot be ignored congressionally and there will have to be a South Brooklyn district which would be dominated by them. It's easy to see a scenario with the current population trends where the setup is a South Brooklyn Orthodox seat, a Black-Hispanic Seat in Western half of Black Brooklyn, and the Eastern Brooklyn Black seat.

Again, the Hasidim would really be the only eligible sect, as they typically speak Yiddish as opposed to English day-to-day. There are only ~100K of them in Brooklyn, with nearly 60K in Williamsburg alone. Indeed, there are only ~760K Hasidim worldwide, let alone in NYC; even if all of them lived in NYC, there'd only be enough Hasidim to entitle them to just 1 seat. Otherwise, it's really legally impossible for the Orthodox Jews in NYC, as white English-speakers, to get their own VRA seat, hence why the VRA wouldn't entitle the Orthodox to any seats in the aforementioned NY state-level example (even if they had 0 of the 3 seats that are roughly proportionate to their applicable populations), but the Hasidim could still get their 1.