What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 12:19:06 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: World politics is up Schmitt creek)
  What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?  (Read 2190 times)
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 12, 2022, 01:27:55 PM »

It's a bit of an odd view that I've never understood from here. Like that it's not a big deal if people from some more generic white American background or whatever convert from Catholic to Protestant but people of Irish or Italian descent doing so is VERY BAD and gets people triggered here, both people in Ireland and some Americans. Like why does one's ethnic background even matter?

The thing that really confuses me is that this is like the one place on the Internet where this type of mindset seems to be common, even on the immense concentration of hot takes that is Twitter I haven't seen it.
Logged
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,681
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2022, 01:41:01 PM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?
Logged
PSOL
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,981


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2022, 05:10:04 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 03:39:57 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.
Logged
All Along The Watchtower
Progressive Realist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,417
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 03:41:07 PM »

Huh
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 04:06:22 PM »

They betray their blood.
Logged
PSOL
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,981


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2022, 06:13:29 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.
Oh yes, I forgot the path that leads them becoming UMC liberal wasps who also throw out their culture.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2022, 12:44:54 AM »

wait, what?
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,174
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2022, 12:53:44 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2022, 01:18:56 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.
Logged
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,596
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2022, 04:14:54 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Gully is Protestant.
Logged
Battista Minola 1616
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,280
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2022, 04:20:38 AM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?

I would not really say tons but it was a fairly significant phenomenon in the 16th century... however it collapsed almost entirely by the 17th century. Either way that's probably not very relevant to the conversions of contemporary Italian Americans.
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2022, 07:01:46 AM »


The Latins and the Hibernians are naturally Catholic peoples.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 46,080
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2022, 07:10:49 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2022, 07:14:14 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?

[glances toward Orthodoxy]
Logged
Boobs
HCP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,510


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2022, 08:45:06 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?

Jews?
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2022, 10:18:11 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Gully is Protestant.
Well no, not religious although raised Protestant, but he still said once that if you're a religious affiliation different than your parents and perhaps your spouse, that's a problem.
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,174
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2022, 09:58:00 PM »

Worth pointing out also that oakvale is an atheist if memory serves, and I assumed Gully was too, having once called me a "God botherer."
Logged
LabourJersey
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,145
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2022, 03:20:09 PM »

As a Protestant of Irish and Italian ancestry I don't see anything wrong with converting or being a Protestant.

I can imagine that to some people, Catholicism is so intertwined with the culture of Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans that conversion can be seen by some as "betraying" or "ignoring" their ancestral culture. I don't think that's true, because just because a faith is connected with culture doesn't mean it's a "package deal" so to speak. And of course it ignores the many non-Catholics who live and have lived in Ireland and Italy for centuries.

I also especially don't think it's healthy for people to feel compelled to stay in their faith tradition just because of cultural tradition if they don't feel that their faith is true (or feel that their faith isn't acknowledging their own identity or parts of their identity). Religion should compel you to seek the truth, even if the path it takes you may be far from what you're used to.
Logged
15 Down, 35 To Go
ExtremeRepublican
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,661


Political Matrix
E: 7.35, S: 5.57


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2022, 10:19:27 PM »

Contrary to popular belief, there are more Protestants of Irish heritage in the US than there are Catholics of Irish heritage.  Just under half of Irish-Americans identify as Protestant, while only about a third consider themselves Catholic.  It's much closer if you ask whether they were raised Protestant or Catholic.

https://religionnews.com/2014/03/17/irish-americans-religion-politics/
Logged
NYDem
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,118
United States Minor Outlying Islands


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2022, 11:28:09 PM »

Nothing, which is why nobody has ever said or even implied this on this forum, as far as I am aware. One wonders why you even ask.
Logged
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
Atlas Prophet
*****
Posts: 112,700
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.50, S: -6.67

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2022, 08:19:06 PM »

Nothing, which is why nobody has ever said or even implied this on this forum, as far as I am aware. One wonders why you even ask.
False.
Logged
Georg Ebner
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 408
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2022, 08:49:13 AM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?
Wrong.
Today only few Italian-speaking mountain-villages in SwitzerLand's canton GrauBünden (south of MalojaPass) are Calvinists. Most Italian protestants (apart from the freshly converted) are Waldensians.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2022, 09:19:43 AM »

Gully is indeed a Protestant, specifically a Calvinist. That he is also not religious is not terribly relevant in an Irish context.
Logged
H. Ross Peron
General Mung Beans
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,406
Korea, Republic of


Political Matrix
E: -6.58, S: -1.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2022, 06:26:12 PM »

Contrary to popular belief, there are more Protestants of Irish heritage in the US than there are Catholics of Irish heritage.  Just under half of Irish-Americans identify as Protestant, while only about a third consider themselves Catholic.  It's much closer if you ask whether they were raised Protestant or Catholic.

https://religionnews.com/2014/03/17/irish-americans-religion-politics/

Some of these are Mike Pence type converts from Catholicism to Evangelicalism but most are Scotch-Irish borderlanders.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.063 seconds with 12 queries.