What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?
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  What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?
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Author Topic: What exactly is wrong with Irish or Italians specifically converting to Protestantism?  (Read 776 times)
September never stays this cold
BRTD
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« on: May 12, 2022, 01:27:55 PM »

It's a bit of an odd view that I've never understood from here. Like that it's not a big deal if people from some more generic white American background or whatever convert from Catholic to Protestant but people of Irish or Italian descent doing so is VERY BAD and gets people triggered here, both people in Ireland and some Americans. Like why does one's ethnic background even matter?

The thing that really confuses me is that this is like the one place on the Internet where this type of mindset seems to be common, even on the immense concentration of hot takes that is Twitter I haven't seen it.
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Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2022, 01:41:01 PM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?
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PSOL
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2022, 05:10:04 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
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September never stays this cold
BRTD
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2022, 03:39:57 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.
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All Along The Watchtower
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2022, 03:41:07 PM »

Huh
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Temporarily Embarrassed Scholar-Statesman
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2022, 04:06:22 PM »

They betray their blood.
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PSOL
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2022, 06:13:29 PM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.
Oh yes, I forgot the path that leads them becoming UMC liberal wasps who also throw out their culture.
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dead0man
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2022, 12:44:54 AM »

wait, what?
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Vice President Scott 🇺🇦
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2022, 12:53:44 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
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September never stays this cold
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2022, 01:18:56 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2022, 04:14:54 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Gully is Protestant.
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2022, 04:20:38 AM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?

I would not really say tons but it was a fairly significant phenomenon in the 16th century... however it collapsed almost entirely by the 17th century. Either way that's probably not very relevant to the conversions of contemporary Italian Americans.
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Temporarily Embarrassed Scholar-Statesman
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2022, 07:01:46 AM »


The Latins and the Hibernians are naturally Catholic peoples.
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dead0man
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2022, 07:10:49 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2022, 07:14:14 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?

[glances toward Orthodoxy]
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Boobs
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2022, 08:45:06 AM »

that sounds gross to my ear.  Are there other peoples who are "naturally" other religions?

Jews?
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September never stays this cold
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2022, 10:18:11 AM »

It usually represents a nasty turn towards elitist conservatism common among newly rich social climbers. Evangelical converts are more likely to be zealous authoritarians than cultural Catholics.
People here get bent out of shape even if it's converting to a liberal mainline denomination though.

Can you post an example of this actually happening? "Church-shopping" is a foreign concept to the European posters here, in no small part because the US never had a state church and so American Christians are more open to exploring different denominations, but I don't know anyone particularly adverse to the idea.
See basically any commentary from oakvale or Gully Foyle on it.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Gully is Protestant.
Well no, not religious although raised Protestant, but he still said once that if you're a religious affiliation different than your parents and perhaps your spouse, that's a problem.
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Vice President Scott 🇺🇦
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2022, 09:58:00 PM »

Worth pointing out also that oakvale is an atheist if memory serves, and I assumed Gully was too, having once called me a "God botherer."
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LabourJersey
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« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2022, 03:20:09 PM »

As a Protestant of Irish and Italian ancestry I don't see anything wrong with converting or being a Protestant.

I can imagine that to some people, Catholicism is so intertwined with the culture of Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans that conversion can be seen by some as "betraying" or "ignoring" their ancestral culture. I don't think that's true, because just because a faith is connected with culture doesn't mean it's a "package deal" so to speak. And of course it ignores the many non-Catholics who live and have lived in Ireland and Italy for centuries.

I also especially don't think it's healthy for people to feel compelled to stay in their faith tradition just because of cultural tradition if they don't feel that their faith is true (or feel that their faith isn't acknowledging their own identity or parts of their identity). Religion should compel you to seek the truth, even if the path it takes you may be far from what you're used to.
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America Needs Jesus Christ
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« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2022, 10:19:27 PM »

Contrary to popular belief, there are more Protestants of Irish heritage in the US than there are Catholics of Irish heritage.  Just under half of Irish-Americans identify as Protestant, while only about a third consider themselves Catholic.  It's much closer if you ask whether they were raised Protestant or Catholic.

https://religionnews.com/2014/03/17/irish-americans-religion-politics/
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NYDem
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« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2022, 11:28:09 PM »

Nothing, which is why nobody has ever said or even implied this on this forum, as far as I am aware. One wonders why you even ask.
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September never stays this cold
BRTD
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2022, 08:19:06 PM »

Nothing, which is why nobody has ever said or even implied this on this forum, as far as I am aware. One wonders why you even ask.
False.
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Donerail
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« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2022, 02:48:24 PM »

Worth pointing out also that oakvale is an atheist if memory serves, and I assumed Gully was too, having once called me a "God botherer."
I believe they are both religious-but-not-spiritual. Religion itself does not bother God, but spirituality does.
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Georg Ebner
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« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2022, 08:49:13 AM »

There used to be tons of Calvinists in Italy in the 16th and 17th century, right?
Wrong.
Today only few Italian-speaking mountain-villages in SwitzerLand's canton GrauBŁnden (south of MalojaPass) are Calvinists. Most Italian protestants (apart from the freshly converted) are Waldensians.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2022, 09:19:43 AM »

Gully is indeed a Protestant, specifically a Calvinist. That he is also not religious is not terribly relevant in an Irish context.
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