SB 109-05: RETCON Act (Veto Overridden)
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  SB 109-05: RETCON Act (Veto Overridden)
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Author Topic: SB 109-05: RETCON Act (Veto Overridden)  (Read 1646 times)
Joseph Cao
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« on: May 12, 2022, 01:21:47 AM »
« edited: June 06, 2022, 12:54:58 AM by Lincoln Senator Joseph Cao »

Quote
A SENATE BILL

To allow the GM to revoke past canon under exigent circumstances

Quote
SECTION I. SHORT TITLE.

This bill shall be referred to as the Responsible Excision of Timeline Canon in case of Overt Nonsense Act, or, for short, the RETCON Act.

SECTION II. PROVISIONS.

F.L. 21-19, the Game Engine Reconstruction Act, is hereby amended as follows:

Quote from: F.L. 21-19§3
iii. The word of a game moderator, once spoken, is Canon, and may not be revoked by them or their successor unless a request to revoke canon status from a specific game engine proclamation or set of proclamations is approved by eight-ninths of the full senate.

Sponsor: Sestak
Status: Veto Override Vote

The gentleman from Montana is recognized.
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Sestak
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2022, 04:58:18 AM »

Right. So Lumine indicated in his confirmation hearing that some flexibility to retcon ridiculous stuff by previous GMs with congressional approval was desirable. This is the simplest proposal for it I was able to cobble together; I did want to make the threshold for retcon extremely high so that nothing can be removed from canon unless basically  everyone agrees that it’s an emergency that must be addressed. Also wanted to make sure all requests had to be specific and not some sort of blank check.

As a note, I know there are some members here who have expressed a desire to substantially alter or replace GERA. I ask that those discussions, if they happen, be separate from this bill. Fairly important that we get this done sooner rather than later so that Lumine can move along; any potential changes wrt GERA can then be done carrying this provision or a version of it over.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2022, 02:00:37 AM »

Previously it wasn't possible for GMs to revoke their own actions, just those of their predecessors, I think? What was the past justification for that / for including that option now?
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Lumine
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 03:17:41 AM »

Thus far it hasn't been formally possible to retcon what the GM has stated (not post-reset anyway, some GM's who went too far pre-reset were arguably ignored, Yankee probably remembers this better than I). It has made sense in so far as we've had reliable GM's or people who, while not perfect, maintain at least a semblance of impartiality or a desire to remain at least somewhat realistic.

Crane could certainly have gone much further than he did and, should this become law, there's only one specific point I'd raise before the Senate for their approval. Nonetheless, I think the precedent sent for a GM being part of a conspiracy and/or destructive effort - we can quibble about the specifics, the general principle is what matters - showcases why absoute power poses a potential issue for the future. Normally a GM that would go rogue would not be confirmed in the first place, but you never know.

I can outline similar thoughts in a more detailed fashion, but without wanting to introduce too much in Senate debate, I think this is a useful safeguard in the short term, at least until the Game Engine is reformed. I'd certainly prefer a context in which a future and firm consensus can repair damage caused by any successor in this office.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2022, 11:46:48 AM »

I fully agree with Lumine. Honestly, though, I am a bit concerned for the state of the game that this thread hasn't been active for three days.
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GM Team Member and Senator WB
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2022, 05:36:05 PM »

This seems like a good idea. Make it so that only things that everyone agrees are stupid can be ignored. Controversial events (as in, those that one side might really not like and another might like) won’t get above that 8/9 threshold.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2022, 07:54:45 PM »

Thus far it hasn't been formally possible to retcon what the GM has stated (not post-reset anyway, some GM's who went too far pre-reset were arguably ignored, Yankee probably remembers this better than I). It has made sense in so far as we've had reliable GM's or people who, while not perfect, maintain at least a semblance of impartiality or a desire to remain at least somewhat realistic.

Crane could certainly have gone much further than he did and, should this become law, there's only one specific point I'd raise before the Senate for their approval. Nonetheless, I think the precedent sent for a GM being part of a conspiracy and/or destructive effort - we can quibble about the specifics, the general principle is what matters - showcases why absoute power poses a potential issue for the future. Normally a GM that would go rogue would not be confirmed in the first place, but you never know.

I can outline similar thoughts in a more detailed fashion, but without wanting to introduce too much in Senate debate, I think this is a useful safeguard in the short term, at least until the Game Engine is reformed. I'd certainly prefer a context in which a future and firm consensus can repair damage caused by any successor in this office.

The best example would be then GM Adam Griffin's alien storyline which was certainly creative and different. However, I believe it was Simfan or someone else became GM and cancelled this storyline.

At the time I opposed this action because I wanted the GM to be more than just the person everyone outsourced their number calculations to.

As to the issue with consolidated and absolute power, you are speaking to the choir when it comes to me, but if there is one place where splitting up power is most difficult, it is the GM.

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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2022, 11:14:31 PM »

Previously it wasn't possible for GMs to revoke their own actions, just those of their predecessors, I think? What was the past justification for that / for including that option now?

I asked this originally (and am still hoping for an answer incidentally, Sestak, if you happen to see this) in case there was some philosophical justification for actually having the GM's word be Canon with a capital C, no-take-backsies, done and inviolable. Certainly Lumine made an excellent argument for relaxing that in the event of a completely rogue GM, I'm just interested in whether past Senators have thought otherwise and why.
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Sestak
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« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2022, 02:21:29 PM »

Previously it wasn't possible for GMs to revoke their own actions, just those of their predecessors, I think? What was the past justification for that / for including that option now?

I asked this originally (and am still hoping for an answer incidentally, Sestak, if you happen to see this) in case there was some philosophical justification for actually having the GM's word be Canon with a capital C, no-take-backsies, done and inviolable. Certainly Lumine made an excellent argument for relaxing that in the event of a completely rogue GM, I'm just interested in whether past Senators have thought otherwise and why.

I haven’t touched GM legislation too much in the past (esp not on the Senate floor, as far as I remember) so I don’t think I can be of too much help here. I don’t know if it was considered acceptable to revoke predecessor claims earlier in game history, but I do think that GM’s shouldn’t be allowed to completely tear everything up, revoke a lot of canon and rewrite much of the story history just to get to a scenario they want. This is why I have the threshold at eight-ninths; so high that it implies basically everyone agrees that the stories being revoked are lunacy that doesn’t work with everything else.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2022, 01:08:03 AM »

Right, I assume in that case this is simply to bring any general proclamation under this mechanism if it's needed.

In terms of actual scenarios where the GM has to revoke their own declarations I think that should be sufficient to block the possibility of a GM maliciously weathervaning by changing the canonicity of recent events, which to be honest was a real possibility with Crane and Kansas.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2022, 01:10:51 AM »

I’ll motion for a final vote here if no one has any objections.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 12:46:47 AM »

…I forgot again, didn't I. 24 hours to object.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2022, 10:00:21 AM »

Quote
A SENATE BILL

To allow the GM to revoke past canon under exigent circumstances

Quote
SECTION I. SHORT TITLE.

This bill shall be referred to as the Responsible Excision of Timeline Canon in case of Overt Nonsense Act, or, for short, the RETCON Act.

SECTION II. PROVISIONS.

F.L. 21-19, the Game Engine Reconstruction Act, is hereby amended as follows:

Quote from: F.L. 21-19§3
iii. The word of a game moderator, once spoken, is Canon, and may not be revoked by them or their successor unless a request to revoke canon status from a specific game engine proclamation or set of proclamations is approved by eight-ninths of the full senate.

A final vote is now open on the bill for 96 hours – Senators, please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2022, 10:00:51 AM »

Aye
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Sestak
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« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2022, 10:01:40 AM »

Aye.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2022, 08:02:12 PM »

Aye.
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wxtransit
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2022, 08:11:05 PM »

Aye.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2022, 08:19:00 PM »

Aye
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West_Midlander
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2022, 08:25:52 PM »

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AGA
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2022, 09:10:03 PM »

Aye
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2022, 04:30:33 AM »

aye
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beesley
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2022, 08:55:56 AM »

Aye
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2022, 03:51:32 PM »

Aye
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2022, 10:04:26 AM »

Quote
Lincoln: Beesley – Aye
Northeast: AGA – Aye
Great Lakes: Cao – Aye

Frémont: Kuumo – Not voting
Mountain West: wxtransit – Aye
Pacific: Western Democrat – Not voting

South: Mr. R – Aye
Upper South: Yankee – Aye
Deep South: Muad'dib – Not voting

STV1: MB – Aye
STV2: Weatherboy – Aye
STV3: Deadprez – Not voting
STV4: West_Midlander – Aye
STV5: Sestak – Aye
STV6: OSR – Not voting
STV7: Blairite – Not voting
STV8: Adam – Not voting
STV9: Ishan – Not voting

By a vote of 10-0-0-8, the legislation is passed and is sent to the President.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2022, 10:05:50 AM »

Quote
A SENATE BILL

To allow the GM to revoke past canon under exigent circumstances

Quote
SECTION I. SHORT TITLE.

This bill shall be referred to as the Responsible Excision of Timeline Canon in case of Overt Nonsense Act, or, for short, the RETCON Act.

SECTION II. PROVISIONS.

F.L. 21-19, the Game Engine Reconstruction Act, is hereby amended as follows:

Quote from: F.L. 21-19§3
iii. The word of a game moderator, once spoken, is Canon, and may not be revoked by them or their successor unless a request to revoke canon status from a specific game engine proclamation or set of proclamations is approved by eight-ninths of the full senate.

Passed 10-0-0-8 in the Atlasian Senate assembled,


Joseph Cao, president pro tempore
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