SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Great. Now, abortion should be banned federally from the moment of conception with exception only for the life of the mother.

Can you explain to me why you are not for exceptions in the case of rape?

I'd argue that pro-lifers who support rape exceptions are logically inconsistent.  If you think that an unborn baby is a life of equal value to that of the mother, the circumstances in which he or she was conceived do not matter.

But by that standard allowing abortion for the life of the mother is also inconsistent. If the life of the unborn is of equal value in the minds of anti-choicers then there should be no exceptions at all. If the mother stays alive while the fetus dies then that is not equal. The bottom line is that anti-abortion logic is nonsensical.

This is a little like saying that killing someone in self-defense shouldn't be legal if murder is going to be illegal. I get the argument you're trying to advance here, but it isn't really that sound.

It's not supposed to be sound, it's highlighting the nonsense of pro-life logic.

I understand that. What I'm saying is that your attempt to highlight that is itself unsound, because there are other situations in which the law treats it as acceptable to kill someone who's presenting an imminent threat to the killer's life and limb. If I instigate a bar fight with you, I insist on escalating it, and you eventually bash my head in with a pool cue, the DA not charging you with manslaughter doesn't mean I have, or had, less of a right to life than you do.

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

[BlueSwan]

THE CONCERN IS APPROACHING LEVELS NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521490781638385664?s=20&t=QMKsb7TR_4MlCg1...

F*** off Susan you completely obnoxious political animal. No one is fooled by your game anymore. Well, other than the 2018 Maine voters

2020

Blame Sara Gideon, the worst Democratic Senate campaign in the country.

Do you realize the Tara Reade and Hunter Biden had an effect on swing female voters, users like to blame the State by state candidates but not Biden, don't forget the stars Reade story came in April a mnth after Super Tuesday and it took a mnth for Biden to come out against it and we had other females in the J especially lose close races like in IA, stop blaming Gideon it was Biden


Also Trump did well in the last debate and won that debate and unemployment dwindled from 9/7, I was on the bus on EDay and WWC voters said Trump will win Unemployment is dwindling

Oh, I'm not ignoring all the other factors. I'm just saying Gideon deserves the majority of the blame; she is the single biggest reason Susan Collins returned to office with another term.

I'd say that Cal Cunningham is more to blame than Sara Gideon. Cunningham was in a VERY winnable race, but couldn't keep his dick in his pants, yet still only barely lost. Completely self-inflicted loss. Gideon may have run a terrible campaign, but at least her opponent was a universally known "moderate hero" with a great track record for winning elections.

[Person Man]

THE CONCERN IS APPROACHING LEVELS NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521490781638385664?s=20&t=QMKsb7TR_4MlCg1...

F*** off Susan you completely obnoxious political animal. No one is fooled by your game anymore. Well, other than the 2018 Maine voters

2020

Blame Sara Gideon, the worst Democratic Senate campaign in the country.

Do you realize the Tara Reade and Hunter Biden had an effect on swing female voters, users like to blame the State by state candidates but not Biden, don't forget the stars Reade story came in April a mnth after Super Tuesday and it took a mnth for Biden to come out against it and we had other females in the J especially lose close races like in IA, stop blaming Gideon it was Biden


Also Trump did well in the last debate and won that debate and unemployment dwindled from 9/7, I was on the bus on EDay and WWC voters said Trump will win Unemployment is dwindling

Oh, I'm not ignoring all the other factors. I'm just saying Gideon deserves the majority of the blame; she is the single biggest reason Susan Collins returned to office with another term.

I'd say that Cal Cunningham is more to blame than Sara Gideon. Cunningham was in a VERY winnable race, but couldn't keep his dick in his pants, yet still only barely lost. Completely self-inflicted loss. Gideon may have run a terrible campaign, but at least her opponent was a universally known "moderate hero" with a great track record for winning elections.

Now that is someone you can reasonably slut shame.

[Badger]

JFC

https://twitter.com/rtraister/status/1522014695057772546?s=20&t=mX9ARxwqbXxI...

One can say without an ounce of hyperbole that that is straight up Gilead level $hit.

[Badger]

I am going to lay out my arguments here for the reason Roe should not remain:

1) Taxpayers should not fund abortion, it is a wasteful practice

2) 10th amendment - powers are reserved to the states to safeguard the life of its people. Bodily autonomy gives no right to kill another.

3) 14th amendment - power is granted to government to provide "equal protection" under the laws. An abortion denies due process to an unborn fetus. As a result, it can be deemed unlawful if Roe is overturned.

Point one. Taxpayer funds are largely prohibited from use of abortion anyway. But regardless, that is a completely ancillary issue to the right to have an abortion. Utterly and completely apples and oranges.

Point2. The Tenth Amendment does it mean that states have the authority to ignore the rest of the Constitution. Even if one can debate whether or not there's a constitutional right to privacy covering such things as contraception sodomy, interracial marriage, Etc, citing the 10th Amendment as some legal Authority basically saying states can do whatever they want is Balderdash that even most conservative constitutional Scholars would not begin to embrace.

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

Now that you understand your basis for opposing roe literally does not have a shred of constitutional authority to back it up, I assume you now support roe being maintained?

[Badger]

Great. Now, abortion should be banned federally from the moment of conception with exception only for the life of the mother.

Why do you want to force women to carry their rapist's baby?

Stated reason. Because Jesus.

Real reason. Not my problem. Don't give a s***.

[Badger]

Great. Now, abortion should be banned federally from the moment of conception with exception only for the life of the mother.

Can you explain to me why you are not for exceptions in the case of rape?

I'd argue that pro-lifers who support rape exceptions are logically inconsistent.  If you think that an unborn baby is a life of equal value to that of the mother, the circumstances in which he or she was conceived do not matter.

But by that standard allowing abortion for the life of the mother is also inconsistent. If the life of the unborn is of equal value in the minds of anti-choicers then there should be no exceptions at all. If the mother stays alive while the fetus dies then that is not equal. The bottom line is that anti-abortion logic is nonsensical.

Self Defense Laws exist though and if a pregnancy threatens a women’s life then terminating it would be self defense . Not having a life exception would be insane even for the most pro life folks due  to this

There has been a line of argument among some anti-abortion activists over the years--which has been muted much like their opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest due to political reasons, but has now been Unleashed now that they see they won and don't have to worry about keeping the mask on--that abortions to save the life of the mother are in fact almost unheard-of due to modern medicine and Technology.

This is of course complete b*******, but today's conservatives rely on convincing themselves of a steady stram of b******* to justify their aims. So I don't see this as potentially being too far outside the realm of possibility in hard core (Atlas) blue states.

[Badger]

THE CONCERN IS APPROACHING LEVELS NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1521490781638385664?s=20&t=QMKsb7TR_4MlCg1...

F*** off Susan you completely obnoxious political animal. No one is fooled by your game anymore. Well, other than the 2018 Maine voters

2020

Blame Sara Gideon, the worst Democratic Senate campaign in the country.

No, blame Susan Collins for being a damn hypocrite. I'm not going to accept this garbage BS argument that Democrats who have 99% gone to the mattresses for the pro-choice movement for the last few decades are somehow even comfortable, even remotely, in blame two goddamn hypocrite and political two timers like Susan Collins, to say nothing of the Taliban jihadist who inhabit Are Congress and Judiciary today.

F*** the Biden-Collins voters who couldn't see what a God damn phony she always was and just how important this issue was at the time

[Badger]

Here's a deep question. If the pregnant women is comatose, and puling the plug would also mean the death of the fetus, would it be considered an abortion ? Who gives the right to decide what happens to the mother AND the baby ?

Well, the obvious answer should be the next of kin after making a thoughtful, likely prayerful, and above all painful personal decision based on those that knew and loved the woman closest.

But according to Republicans the proper answer is, a majority of one's (likely gerrymandered) State Legislature.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in for years, and this will only become an issue when and if an unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect in advance, hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the forthcoming Dred Scott-Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Klndly don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

[jojoju1998]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in 4 years oh, and this will only become an issue when an f and unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the inevitable Dred Scott Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Kylie don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

Oh Jesus, we're going into Civil War aren't we ?

[jamestroll]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in 4 years oh, and this will only become an issue when an f and unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the inevitable Dred Scott Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Kylie don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

Oh Jesus, we're going into Civil War aren't we ?

I have been warning about this.. the astrology strongly suggests a civil war in the mid 2020s.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in 4 years oh, and this will only become an issue when an f and unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the inevitable Dred Scott Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Kylie don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

Oh Jesus, we're going into Civil War aren't we ?

No, but the battle in the courts and the legislators will be grotesque. We are facing a horrendous breakdown of democracy, though. We've been inflicted with increasing levels of minority rule through Republican machinations since they realize they generally cannot win the popular vote anymore and, despite little shifts around the edges such as Trump doing better with rural Hispanics and some Asians in the last election, demographic changes and the attitude of most people under 40 with college degrees towards the GOP make it an increasingly difficult proposition for the future. Unprecedented levels of gerrymandering, totally a historic levels of abuse of the filibuster, plus ingrained level of anti-democratic measures such as the Electoral College and the Senate's over-representation of rural States, the essential deck of campaign Finance laws, etc etc. Means we are facing a fundamental crisis where popular will simply is irrelevant anymore, which has led to an even deeper existential crisis in trust in democracy and, justifiably, the capacity of our current governing structure to accomplish anything. No, I don't think it's going to go to war, but we are crumbling from internal corruption and rot not unlike the Roman Empire over fifteen hundred years ago

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1522044847254872064

Republicans are monsters

If this comes to be and things get this bad, it almost becomes morally imperative to take things into your own hands. At the very least, sane people should evacuate.

But most people won't, because they have their lives and jobs and Families to deal with along with the communities they've lived in 4 years oh, and this will only become an issue when an f and unintended pregnancy arises, which people don't expect hence the term unintended.

And even then, those who struggle the most economically, which are hardly just the poor, and rely on a social network of family and close friends for not only immediate financial support but in direct financial support with things like Child Care, aren't going to have the wherewithal too readily locate even when an unintended pregnancy arises.

Progressives are going to have to create an underground railroad system to finance getting poor women in red States who want to terminate their pregnancy to the safety of a blue State, and litigate the inevitable Dred Scott Fugitive Slave Act style laws Republicans will inevitably enact.

Edit: and Kylie don't criticize me for posting something like eight things in a row. I don't live online, and simply took some time in my mid morning routine to go through the thread and respond to posts as I read them

Oh Jesus, we're going into Civil War aren't we ?

No, but the battle in the courts and the legislators will be grotesque. We are facing a horrendous breakdown of democracy, though. We've been inflicted with increasing levels of minority rule through Republican machinations since they realize they generally cannot win the popular vote anymore and, despite little shifts around the edges such as Trump doing better with rural Hispanics and some Asians in the last election, demographic changes and the attitude of most people under 40 with college degrees towards the GOP make it an increasingly difficult proposition for the future. Unprecedented levels of gerrymandering, totally a historic levels of abuse of the filibuster, plus ingrained level of anti-democratic measures such as the Electoral College and the Senate's over-representation of rural States, the essential deck of campaign Finance laws, etc etc. Means we are facing a fundamental crisis where popular will simply is irrelevant anymore, which has led to an even deeper existential crisis in trust in democracy and, justifiably, the capacity of our current governing structure to accomplish anything. No, I don't think it's going to go to war, but we are crumbling from internal corruption and rot not unlike the Roman Empire over fifteen hundred years ago

More like the Roman Empire or the USSR? I could eventually see a USSR-type situation by 2040. A Roman Empire situation was a little different. Migrants and peasants revolted and when the army was brought in to handle the situation, they either mutinied and sometimes "lost". I think a Roman Empire situation would be the middle ground between Civil War and a consented to state failure. The only thing about the Roman analogy is who would the Germans, Slavs, Hungarians, Arabs, Iranians, and Turks be?

[Ferguson97]

So what would happen if a woman, who lives in a state where abortion is illegal, travels to a state where abortion is legal, and has the procedure. Could her home state successfully charge her as an accessory to murder? Could they successfully charge the doctor, who lives in the legal-state and never stepped foot in the illegal-state, with murder?

[Badger]

So what would happen if a woman, who lives in a state where abortion is illegal, travels to a state where abortion is legal, and has the procedure. Could her home state successfully charge her as an accessory to murder? Could they successfully charge the doctor, who lives in the legal-state and never stepped foot in the illegal-state, with murder?

Short answer, who knows?

Longer answer, Republicans will absolutely try

[GeorgiaModerate]

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

So if somehow the right manages to twist around the literal word "born" in the Amendment to imply citizenship to the unborn, here are a couple of interesting questions:

1. Would a child born in the U.S. but conceived outside of it be a citizen of the U.S.?

2. The reverse: would a child conceived in the U.S. but born outside of it be a citizen?

And if that's not enough cans of worms yet, how about the census?  It calls for enumerating the number of "persons" in the U.S.  If personhood begins at conception...

[jojoju1998]

Third, the Fourteenth Amendment explicitly States, and I quote, all persons born or naturalized in the United States are citizens. Implying citizenship to a newly fertilized egg or even a three months old fetus is at best and extremely novel argument, and more accurately completely antithetical to the 14th amendments explicit language.

So if somehow the right manages to twist around the literal word "born" in the Amendment to imply citizenship to the unborn, here are a couple of interesting questions:

1. Would a child born in the U.S. but conceived outside of it be a citizen of the U.S.?

2. The reverse: would a child conceived in the U.S. but born outside of it be a citizen?

And if that's not enough cans of worms yet, how about the census?  It calls for enumerating the number of "persons" in the U.S.  If personhood begins at conception...

Well this proves Obama is a Us citizen after all.

[GP270watch]

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1522209940382928898

 This is absolute crazy talk. From a medical perspective, biological perspective, human rights, women's rights. These people are just delusional cultists.

 It's going to get a lot weirder and scarier and nonsensical. Fetal death certificates, pseudoscience about contraceptive, criminal investigations on miscarriages. Again how can you have a death certificate before you are born? Somebody please answer this.


 

[GeorgiaModerate]

I deleted the post quoted above as I could not find a second source to verify it.

[President Johnson]

I wonder whether all these male politicians making outlandish statements would do so if (cis)men could get pregnant.

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1522209940382928898

 This is absolute crazy talk. From a medical perspective, biological perspective, human rights, women's rights. These people are just delusional cultists.

 It's going to get a lot weirder and scarier and nonsensical. Fetal death certificates, pseudoscience about contraceptive, criminal investigations on miscarriages. Again how can you have a death certificate before you are born? Somebody please answer this.


 

This is a psychiatric disability.

[GP270watch]

I deleted the post quoted above as I could not find a second source to verify it.

Sen. Kevin Cramer, R-N.D., said he expects a push for federal abortion restrictions.

“Just take my state of North Dakota. Having a North Dakota child killed in the womb in Fargo versus Moorhead, Minnesota, you know, on the other side of the Red River — I don’t find a lot of solace in that just because it didn’t happen in my state,” Cramer said. “I think you could expect that pro-life activists would push for federal protections. I mean, I wouldn’t take that off the table.”

He's a crazy.

[Inmate Trump]

I wonder whether all these male politicians making outlandish statements would do so if (cis)men could get pregnant.

Abortion would be a protected right if men could get pregnant.