SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Pedocon Theory is not a theory]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1570089778112237572

[OSR stands with Israel]

A 15-week abortion ban is extremely unpopular.

I actually genuinely hadn't realized how much Dobbs had tanked support for it. Jesus.

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!


Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

[_.]

The things a concerted pro-abortion media campaign across nearly every platform can do for you

[GeorgiaModerate]

  (snipped some quotes to shorten it)

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!

Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

To be fair some of it is likely the changed language on the poll question, which the graphic notes.

I could imagine there is more support for a version of the 15 week ban that Graham has, which includes exceptions for rape and incest.

But not that much support, where it's plurality popular again?

I think there would be more support if it was assured that it was a firm standard, i.e. 15 weeks would be both a floor and a ceiling.  But Graham's bill makes it a ceiling, and states are free to enact more restrictive laws, but not less restrictive laws.

There's also a good point I saw in another thread that the Republicans are in much the same position with respect to abortion that the Democrats are with gun control.  People simply don't believe that they would stop at enacting an apparently moderate, acceptable compromise, but would continue to push for tighter restrictions.

[Ferguson97]

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!

Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

I mean aren’t you always insisting that the Republican Party has moderated on social issues?

[OSR stands with Israel]

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!

Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

I mean aren’t you always insisting that the Republican Party has moderated on social issues?

I didn’t think they would move towards the outright liberal Postion on the issue

[Skill and Chance]

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!

Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

I mean aren’t you always insisting that the Republican Party has moderated on social issues?

I didn’t think they would move towards the outright liberal Postion on the issue

It's really surprising to see this many more pro-choice R's than pro-life D's.  I mean for 25 years the theory was that pro-life economic liberals swung tons of elections to the right because of Roe.

[Badger]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1570089778112237572

Funniest thing she has intentionally said in years

[Person Man]

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1570089778112237572

Funniest thing she has intentionally said in years

I’d say they believe that life begins at the fourth round of Jaeger-Bombs wherever Diplo was playing  on Saturday Night but sure. That was a good one.

Sounds like a game. “When does Life begin?”

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/beardedcrank/status/1570183495695368192

[new_patomic]

https://twitter.com/jonallendc/status/1570173001303212035?s=20&t=lMSiLiEqfzR...

I want to say punishing doctors has traditionally polled in the absolute gutter, even compared to those who support 15-week bans or identify as pro-life.

[Brittain33]

My theory is that Republicans feel a compulsion to be in charge and in control and with the Democrats pushing a same-sex marriage bill, Graham thought he would seize the initiative and do it back to them, even though it would be so much smarter to let it lie.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1570150798885097472

Least deranged pro-lifer

[100% pro-life no matter what]

A 15-week abortion ban is extremely unpopular.

I actually genuinely hadn't realized how much Dobbs had tanked support for it. Jesus.

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!


Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

They noted in the fine print that they said "no rape or incest exceptions" in the summer poll when they didn't in the spring one.  While I hate that it's the case, people believe in rape exceptions (which make zero philosophical sense if you believe that life begins at conception).  The change would almost certainly be less stark if they had keep the question consistent.

And, I'll also note that abortion polling is very tricky and dependent on how questions are worded.  I've seen other polls show much greater initial levels of support for 15 week bans.  I even remember one showing that a 6 week ban with exceptions was close to 50-50 (now, that was in 2021, but after Texas's law took effect).

[Ferguson97]

A 15-week abortion ban is extremely unpopular.

I actually genuinely hadn't realized how much Dobbs had tanked support for it. Jesus.

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!


Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

They noted in the fine print that they said "no rape or incest exceptions" in the summer poll when they didn't in the spring one.  While I hate that it's the case, people believe in rape exceptions (which make zero philosophical sense if you believe that life begins at conception).  The change would almost certainly be less stark if they had keep the question consistent.

And, I'll also note that abortion polling is very tricky and dependent on how questions are worded.  I've seen other polls show much greater initial levels of support for 15 week bans.  I even remember one showing that a 6 week ban with exceptions was close to 50-50 (now, that was in 2021, but after Texas's law took effect).

Well if you don't trust polls then luckily we have a very recent referendum to look to.

[Brittain33]

The things a concerted pro-abortion media campaign across nearly every platform can do for you

Voters switched immediately after Dobbs starting with the NE-1 special election.

[Skill and Chance]

A 15-week abortion ban is extremely unpopular.

I actually genuinely hadn't realized how much Dobbs had tanked support for it. Jesus.

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!


Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

They noted in the fine print that they said "no rape or incest exceptions" in the summer poll when they didn't in the spring one.  While I hate that it's the case, people believe in rape exceptions (which make zero philosophical sense if you believe that life begins at conception).  The change would almost certainly be less stark if they had keep the question consistent.

And, I'll also note that abortion polling is very tricky and dependent on how questions are worded.  I've seen other polls show much greater initial levels of support for 15 week bans.  I even remember one showing that a 6 week ban with exceptions was close to 50-50 (now, that was in 2021, but after Texas's law took effect).

If you think of the pregnancy as an ongoing part of the rape?  Many other laws against killing have exceptions for killing in self-defense.  The general pro-life view is that the choice regarding whether or not to accept a pregnancy happens when you choose whether or not to have sex (and/or what birth control to use when you do).  This person didn't have a choice. 

[GP270watch]

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1570150798885097472

Least deranged pro-lifer

WTF is this idiot talking about?

[Ferguson97]

WTF is this idiot talking about?

I think he's basically saying it's all or nothing for him, unless they ban ALL abortions then it's not worth it.

[GP270watch]

WTF is this idiot talking about?

I think he's basically saying it's all or nothing for him, unless they ban ALL abortions then it's not worth it.

 He just said he would let a burning building filled with children die if he couldn't save them all. That's just pure lunacy.

[Aurelius]

https://twitter.com/beardedcrank/status/1570183495695368192

There is no trendline here.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

They noted in the fine print that they said "no rape or incest exceptions" in the summer poll when they didn't in the spring one.  While I hate that it's the case, people believe in rape exceptions (which make zero philosophical sense if you believe that life begins at conception).  The change would almost certainly be less stark if they had keep the question consistent.

Rape exceptions make perfect sense if oppose abortion not because you believe it murders children, but because you believe it encourages promiscuity.  A lot of Republicans aren't really pro-life so much as anti-sex.

[Aurelius]

The punishment of the idealist consists in the triumph of his cause. (GOMEZ DAVILA)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

A 15-week abortion ban is extremely unpopular.

I actually genuinely hadn't realized how much Dobbs had tanked support for it. Jesus.

Only Half Of Republicans still Support it !!!


Has it gotten to the point where I am more socially conservative than the average Republican voter

They noted in the fine print that they said "no rape or incest exceptions" in the summer poll when they didn't in the spring one.  While I hate that it's the case, people believe in rape exceptions (which make zero philosophical sense if you believe that life begins at conception).  The change would almost certainly be less stark if they had keep the question consistent.

And, I'll also note that abortion polling is very tricky and dependent on how questions are worded.  I've seen other polls show much greater initial levels of support for 15 week bans.  I even remember one showing that a 6 week ban with exceptions was close to 50-50 (now, that was in 2021, but after Texas's law took effect).

If you think of the pregnancy as an ongoing part of the rape?  Many other laws against killing have exceptions for killing in self-defense.  The general pro-life view is that the choice regarding whether or not to accept a pregnancy happens when you choose whether or not to have sex (and/or what birth control to use when you do).  This person didn't have a choice. 

The "tacit consent" framing is a widespread pro-life view, but there's something unsettlingly sexist about it that a lot of more philosophically-moderate pro-lifers notice and correct for, which ironically involves adopting a more extreme position On The Issues in practice.

[new_patomic]

I used to be one of those people who would say "bUt iF yOUrE PRo_LiFe YoU CanT BE In faVOr of ExEmpTiONs" but honestly.... meh.

Sure, for the people who literally think it's murder, that's awkward. But most don't actually ascribe to that (or don't mean it) and there are a ton of issues where people aren't pretending to be Greek philosophers sitting around pondering the extremest extent of every position. Most people unironically aligned with Roe's understanding of how this should work. The woman has a legitimate interest in bodily autonomy, and the state has a legitimate interest in protecting both the health of the mother and the fetus, and at some point one overtakes the other.

Which is why whenever people bring up "late-term" abortions the usual liberal answer is that these already aren't permitted except in absolutely horrific circumstances where absolutely necessary, not that actually we're philosophically okay with all abortion being legal up until the 40th week.