Sweden and Finland set to join NATO in May

[dead0man]

Russia was in fact using a soft power strategy for most of the 2000s and even some of the 2010s.

Georgia (and other peoples in the northern Caucasus) would disagree with you.

[dead0man]

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlyjsp/status/1522221253293228032

Hey, the hypersonic things dont take 2 days to reach, but hey, up to them...

what point do you think you're making?

[dead0man]

Explained above

not to me.  Are you saying Finland can be defeated by Russia in 2 days because Russia has hypersonic missiles?  'cause that would be a very VERY stupid thing to say out loud, so I have to assume it's not that, but I can't think of anything else it could be.

[dead0man]

Hmm, the point of a whole thread is to be followed in case of any inquiries about what is meant, so, there was this:

As i had said somewhere else but put an other way:

If u are threatened by someone and u think u need a shield, dont come out of the wood to tell ur threatener:

'Hey wait! Im gonna look for a shield!'

Means, the moment they officially apply, they shouldnt be surprised if something bad happens on their territory, Finnish people are getting trained in the woods, but someone trains them how to shoot a hypersonic Russian thing?

And since an application doesnt mean being part of it, then Article 5 couldnt directly apply, right?

Then all of sudden Russia would have a wonderfull reason to strike some Western+EU countries without NATO could officially do anything in return, just a wonderfull humiliation of the kind Putin can really enjoy, just with the cost of a few missiles

Apparently a majority, but not so huge, in those countries agrees to join NATO, and amongst the opponents u can hear about, some people whoseem to be aware of such possibilities! Well, people there would be the 1st ones to be on the front line, so i guess it helps to be aware of this

I mean, instead, make everything done with NATO as secret and fast as possible, special procedures with ur parliament or whatever fits the situation, and then only come out of the wood to tell the bad guys:

'Hey look! We got a pretty damn good shield now!'

Might help, too late now, good luck

But, if it's ok to take a few strikes for Finland and/or Sweden within few minutes after they make loud official application as long as they are not defeated, then who am i...

Why on Earth they, u know who i guess, bothered staging a fake operation in 1944 to go to Normandy, they should have straight away aired the date and place on BBC, and those bloody French Résistants only did odd code messages cause they are just so stupidly fond of poetry, i guess

Just like right now the world media seems to know the details of all whats being sent to Ukraine by Westerners, they should also give the dates and places of deliveries might show to the ennemy that we are really not scared of whatever they could do in return

Art of dissimulation wouldnt be reserved to the bad guys only, especially in war contexts, and can be done without breaking ur moral values, it's just tactic and strategy, and no matter how many war challenges we are being thrown in our faces it seems too 'bellow' for us to really bother

I hope we wont have to need to be more seriously tested about it to better realize, and this case, especially Finland's, will be one more test, for Russians to see till where they want to go, and for us to see how we really want to handle it, if we really want to handle it

so your point, I think, is that they should join NATO secretly?  I don't see how that's possible.  Russia sucks, sure, but they aren't completely incompetent at espionage.  And the press in the west is even better, someone would find out.  Plus the thousands of people involved, someone is leaking even if the press or the KGB (or whatever they call it these days) fail to figure it out.

Also, as the Tweet above states, as soon as the process starts, they're members and will be defended if attacked.  If I was in charge, I'd give the NATO umbrella to everyone in eastern Europe whether they want it or not.  Appeasing jerks is no way to live.  If we had stood up to Putin in 08 or 14, there would be a whole hell of lot more living Ukrainians.  Nobody know what future deaths we might see if we don't stand up to him now.

[dead0man]

The Soviet Union lost.  The husk doesn't get to dictate to the rest of the world (or even just it's neighbors) for the next century.

[dead0man]

The British and Swedish PMs have formalised a mutual UK-Sweden defensive pact whilst on a trip to Harpsund, a clear attempt to deter the Russians from aggression during the application period. Swedish neutrality is already over - all that remains to be done is to submit a formal application in the coming weeks.

If there effectively is something like this, then i guess yeah, could do for Sweden, but then again, Finland has anything to deter anything yet...?

they do have Russian incompetence on their side