Sweden and Finland set to join NATO in May

[Storr]

"Today, Montenegro formally completed the national procedure for the accession of Finland and Sweden to the Alliance. @jensstoltenberg
Welcome to NATO @niinisto 🇫🇮  @SwedishPM 🇸🇪 ."

"The open door policy and strengthening the security of the North Atlantic region remain our priority. We continue together in the process of unifying Europe and strengthening NATO for the purpose of security, stability and global competitiveness of Europe."

https://twitter.com/predsjednik_cg/status/1554422394026168321?s=20&t=ILmHwYb...

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

The Montenegrin Parliament voted yesterday (July 28th) 57-3-11 for Finland, 57-2-11 for Sweden. I guess Dejan Đurović didn't feel it was worth voting against Swedish NATO membership. As you'd expect, all the members who voted "PROTIV" appear to be Serb nationalists.

The US Senate is scheduled to vote on August 1st!

Evidently the Italian National Assembly is voting tomorrow and the US Senate isn't voting today, but lol:

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1554095814611443712?s=20&t=OAr5_W...

McCaskill -> Hawley was possibly one of the worst senate downgrades EVER.

Hawley is merely virtue signalling on an issue that deserves careful consideration, given Finland’s border with Russia. Virtue signalling is most of what he does, and it often plays against the Republican line.

McCaskill, by the end of her tenure, was neither an electoral titan nor true blue where it mattered.

There’ve been plenty of worse D->R switches than this in the last few decades - Feingold to RonJon comes to mind. I’m not even mentioning the “unremarkable D/R -> historical villain” downgrades that have brought some of the worst Senators to power (e.g. McCarthy).

[Sestak]

US Senate will vote tomorrow.

[Antonio the Sixth]

France has ratified. Against, depressingly, the opposition of FI and the communists. Might be time to change my username back...

[Stranger in a strange land]

The Montenegrin Parliament voted yesterday (July 28th) 57-3-11 for Finland, 57-2-11 for Sweden. I guess Dejan Đurović didn't feel it was worth voting against Swedish NATO membership. As you'd expect, all the members who voted "PROTIV" appear to be Serb nationalists.

The US Senate is scheduled to vote on August 1st!

Evidently the Italian National Assembly is voting tomorrow and the US Senate isn't voting today, but lol:

https://twitter.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1554095814611443712?s=20&t=OAr5_W...

McCaskill -> Hawley was possibly one of the worst senate downgrades EVER.

Hawley is merely virtue signalling on an issue that deserves careful consideration, given Finland’s border with Russia. Virtue signalling is most of what he does, and it often plays against the Republican line.

McCaskill, by the end of her tenure, was neither an electoral titan nor true blue where it mattered.

There’ve been plenty of worse D->R switches than this in the last few decades - Feingold to RonJon comes to mind. I’m not even mentioning the “unremarkable D/R -> historical villain” downgrades that have brought some of the worst Senators to power (e.g. McCarthy).

There's been ample careful consideration on the issue. It's been over 70 years since NATO was formed and over 30 since the end of the Cold War. Public opinion on joining NATO in Finland and Sweden only flipped to majority support THIS YEAR. There's a clear pattern emerging where Russia invades countries that aren't in NATO, but won't invade those that are. Therefore the message its other neighbors get is that they should try to join NATO as quickly as possible.

[Oryxslayer]

France has ratified. Against, depressingly, the opposition of FI and the communists. Might be time to change my username back...

So a lot of people weren't there - perhaps under the expectations of an easy pass - and RN were whipped for abstention whereas LFI went for a no vote. Everyone else went yes.

Once again, LFI are unsurprisingly preformists and amateurs compared to the rest of the parties - and especially RN who are actually filled with electoral amateurs. If you can whip your votes in a way that will look better in a few years when one checks a wikipedia chart and doesn't read the details...you did well politically.

[Antonio the Sixth]

France has ratified. Against, depressingly, the opposition of FI and the communists. Might be time to change my username back...

So a lot of people weren't there - perhaps under the expectations of an easy pass - and RN were whipped for abstention whereas LFI went for a no vote. Everyone else went yes.

Once again, LFI are unsurprisingly preformists and amateurs compared to the rest of the parties - and especially RN who are actually filled with electoral amateurs. If you can whip your votes in a way that will look better in a few years when one checks a wikipedia chart and doesn't read the details...you did well politically.

Yeah, this is a damning example of FI building its own echo chamber and not realizing how out of touch they are. Sadly I'm used to this from them, but the communists joining them is really disappointing (even Roussel said favorable things about NATO during the campaign).

And half French MPs not showing up to vote is depressingly common even for important legislation. Our levels of parliamentary absenteeism are really pathetic.

[President Johnson]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

[TheReckoning]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

There's a good argument against NATO states which don't pay their way.

There are good arguments against Sweden and Finland joining NATO.

The unification of these arguments, however, is pretty flimsy. Finland already spends more than 2% of GDP; Sweden is set to exceed that in a few years.

[Sestak]

US Senate ratifies, 95-1. 1 Present.


Hawley is the No and I think Paul the Present.

[Pericles]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

NATO isn't a trade agreement lol, it's a mechanism to keep Europe peaceful and prosperous, which is a huge benefit to the US.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1554957834307223552

NATO formalized its invitation to Sweden and Finland to join the alliance at the end of June and the decision must go to the 30 member states' parliaments and legislatures for final ratification.
President Joe Biden sent the protocols for ratification to the Senate in July, paving the way for the vote, which needed to be approved by two-thirds of the Senate to succeed.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

US Senate ratifies, 95-1. 1 Present.


Hawley is the No and I think Paul the Present.

You're right. From CNN:

GOP Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky similarly outlined his position in an op-ed in the American Conservative.
"As for Sweden and Finland, we still need serious, rational, objective debate on the costs and benefits of admitting two historically neutral nations who have such strategic geographic position in relation to Russia," he wrote. "Before the Russian invasion, I would have said no. But given Russian actions, I have shifted from being against their admittance to NATO to neutral on the question, and will as a consequence vote 'present.'"

[TheReckoning]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

NATO isn't a trade agreement lol, it's a mechanism to keep Europe peaceful and prosperous, which is a huge benefit to the US.

Is it worth dumping in billions upon billions of dollars into, when other countries have made it clear that they aren’t going to hold up their end of the bargain since they’re expecting the USA to foot the bill?

I’m not against NATO or Finland and Sweden joining it, but they’re legitimate concerns with the way NATO currently operates.

[Storr]

US Senate ratifies, 95-1. 1 Present.


Hawley is the No and I think Paul the Present.

Yes.

The French National Assembly voted 209-46-53 on August 2nd for both Sweden and Finland.

The Italian Chamber of Deputies voted 398-20-9 for both countries on August 2nd

The Italian Senate voted 202-13-2 for both countries on August 3rd.

[Pericles]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

NATO isn't a trade agreement lol, it's a mechanism to keep Europe peaceful and prosperous, which is a huge benefit to the US.

Is it worth dumping in billions upon billions of dollars into, when other countries have made it clear that they aren’t going to hold up their end of the bargain since they’re expecting the USA to foot the bill?

I’m not against NATO or Finland and Sweden joining it, but they’re legitimate concerns with the way NATO currently operates.

The US does have a lot of waste in its defence budget but overall it's a great trade for the US, investments do need to be made to get great results.

[emailking]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

The US is the only country that has ever cashed in on Article 5.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Who are the three remaining Senators, and why did they not vote?

The two women whose shoulders Schumer is putting his arms around are Paivi Nevala, minister counselor of the Finnish Embassy, at left, and Karin Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US. That photo was taken ahead of the Senate vote.

[Storr]

A map of accession progress:

https://twitter.com/eskelinen_antti/status/1554955433621819397?s=20&t=0g1tPh...

[MaxQue]

Who are the three remaining Senators, and why did they not vote?

The two women whose shoulders Schumer is putting his arms around are Paivi Nevala, minister counselor of the Finnish Embassy, at left, and Karin Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US. That photo was taken ahead of the Senate vote.

Cornyn (COVID quarantine), Leahy (recuperating from a broken hip) and Merkley (back in Oregon,
where his mother is dying)

[TheReckoning]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

The US is the only country that has ever cashed in on Article 5.

And yet, we lost the war anyways.

[Oryxslayer]

Every single party and every single lawmaker in any NATO country that votes against admission of Sweden and Finland needs to be called out in the starkest terms. They're either Putin's arm or just useful idiots to the Kremlin.

The United States pays way more into NATO than it gets out of it. A vast majority of countries in NATO are refusing to raise the defense budgets up to 2% of GDP, despite pledging to do so earlier. Some people feel like NATO is a scam to the United States, and they just may be right.

NATO isn't a trade agreement lol, it's a mechanism to keep Europe peaceful and prosperous, which is a huge benefit to the US.

Is it worth dumping in billions upon billions of dollars into, when other countries have made it clear that they aren’t going to hold up their end of the bargain since they’re expecting the USA to foot the bill?

I’m not against NATO or Finland and Sweden joining it, but they’re legitimate concerns with the way NATO currently operates.

I said this several moths back in the Ukraine thread and I'll say it again here: the main reason for NATO's existence is America First. Without NATO, Europe would likely be under more pressure, more threats, and likely more conflicts like we saw in Ukraine - something that only happened cause it wasn't in NATO. But the US wouldn't sit ideally by as it's major trade and economic partners find themselves under threat. No - we would be spending a lot more and acting a lot more on the continent in this hypothetical environment. And we would probably be shouldering the brunt of reconstruction - like the Marshall plan before us - to both prevent China from coming in and to maintain the beneficial economic relationship. That's what is currently happening in Ukraine and will likely happen post-war. Peace means America can keep to herself, do her own thing, and get no care what happens across the ocean - America First.

So in truth, it is better suck up and pay the insurance. Cause in the end, said insurance will be cheaper than totaling the car or watching your house get burned down and having no hope of filing a claim.

[emailking]

And yet, we lost the war anyways.

We won the war against Afghanistan. We just decided the country wasn't worth holding onto.

[sting in the rafters]

Is it worth dumping in billions upon billions of dollars into, when other countries have made it clear that they aren’t going to hold up their end of the bargain since they’re expecting the USA to foot the bill?

I’m not against NATO or Finland and Sweden joining it, but they’re legitimate concerns with the way NATO currently operates.

Would you rather all those countries push the Doomsday Clock up the asymptote toward midnight via developing nuclear missiles of their own? Because if say, the Baltic States or Poland or Turkey weren’t in NATO, they’d be figuring that out ASAP.