1996: Dubya runs four years earlier
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  1996: Dubya runs four years earlier
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Author Topic: 1996: Dubya runs four years earlier  (Read 547 times)
Blow by blow, the passion dies
LeonelBrizola
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« on: April 15, 2022, 03:33:11 PM »

He was too inexperienced, so he wouldn't let
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2022, 04:26:03 PM »

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Computer89
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2022, 05:56:20 PM »

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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2022, 06:49:57 PM »



Just four years after HW Bush got ousted by Clinton, you really think his relatively unknown failson (at least that's how he was widely perceived at the time) whose experience was just a grand total of 1 year as governor could do that well against a popular charismatic incumbent (also Southern) in a great economy?

Nope, I stand by my map. He does worse than Dole and his father.
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Computer89
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2022, 07:15:25 PM »



Just four years after HW Bush got ousted by Clinton, you really think his relatively unknown failson (at least that's how he was widely perceived at the time) whose experience was just a grand total of 1 year as governor could do that well against a popular charismatic incumbent (also Southern) in a great economy?

Nope, I stand by my map. He does worse than Dole and his father.

W is a better campaigner than his father or Dole and he is definitely a better fit for the south than they were . He probably emphasizes the gun issue more and due  to that picks up states Clinton won by close margins such as AZ/KY/TN.


I think popular vote wise W still underperforms his father and does so in the tipping point state by a good deal too but gets more EV overall .
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2022, 07:25:48 PM »



Just four years after HW Bush got ousted by Clinton, you really think his relatively unknown failson (at least that's how he was widely perceived at the time) whose experience was just a grand total of 1 year as governor could do that well against a popular charismatic incumbent (also Southern) in a great economy?

Nope, I stand by my map. He does worse than Dole and his father.

W is a better campaigner than his father or Dole and he is definitely a better fit for the south than they were . He probably emphasizes the gun issue more and due  to that picks up states Clinton won by close margins such as AZ/KY/TN.


I think popular vote wise W still underperforms his father and does so in the tipping point state by a good deal too but gets more EV overall .

People forget that at the time, the Assault Weapons Ban (which I ironically oppose myself as ineffective policy) was widely championed as part of the larger crime bill by "law and order" conservatives, including Reagan and HW Bush. No telling if Dubya would have even condemned it in 1996, let alone campaigned prominently against it. (Dole didn't.)

I just don't buy that as a decisive factor given the tidal wave of other factors against a Dubya 1996 run. He would look like a nepotistic imbecilic clown in over his head with no business even sniffing the office who would be absolutely shredded by Clinton in the debates and throughout the campaign. His Southern "fit" would be irrelevant as Clinton was an even better fit for the region (unlike Gore, who despite nominally being a Southerner, did not "feel" like one in any significant way to most inhabitants of the region).

It would be kinda like Eric Trump trying to run now, for lack of a better comparison. He would do better due to increased polarization since then, sadly, but he would still get smashed by Biden. Whether he carpetbagged to Oklahoma or wherever and won the governorship for 1 year or not.
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MT Treasurer
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2022, 08:01:35 PM »

He loses (but wins KY, TN, AZ, and NV in addition to all the Dole states), but a far more interesting question is whether he wins in 2000 if Clinton had been eligible for another term (I think—contrary to popular conventional wisdom—he’d have stood a very good chance).
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2022, 08:47:31 PM »
« Edited: April 15, 2022, 09:18:43 PM by Alben Barkley »

He loses (but wins KY, TN, AZ, and NV in addition to all the Dole states), but a far more interesting question is whether he wins in 2000 if Clinton had been eligible for another term (I think—contrary to popular conventional wisdom—he’d have stood a very good chance).

Yeah, well, you also thought Matt Bevin would win so...

Also the popular conventional wisdom is that Bush would have been absolutely destroyed in 2000 by the charismatic incumbent president who had created the first budget surplus since Andrew Jackson and had an approval rating in the 60s for good reason. The fact that he barely "won" against a charisma-devoid wet blanket like Gore who ran an abysmal campaign that did absolutely everything wrong when it came to pretty much everything, especially his relationship to the extremely popular incumbent POTUS, should say it all. You really don't think Clinton could have come up with those 538 votes in Florida EASILY? Like, BEYOND easily? I would have been shocked into a fatal heart attack if Clinton won Florida by less than 5 points in 2000!

What an absolutely hilarious joke of a post, maybe your most ridiculous and detached from reality ever which is REALLY saying something!

Newsflash (for the 3478th time): Nobody in history, anywhere, EVER has voted for some robotic AI simulation of a party line detached from all personal factors which individual candidates bring to the table. That is precisely why Clinton won landslides against Dole in states like WV and LA which were promptly reversed HARD in 2000. The personal factors of the candidates mean more than your robotic pseudo-models could ever dream of, and the 1996-2000 shift is maybe the best example of this ever so I'm not too surprised you are loath to admit this. And probably particularly HATE this election cycle as it is maybe the coldest, hardest evidence ever against your understanding of politics which seems to be derived from an 11th grade student f--king around with a TI-84 and proclaiming it as gospel.

Since you have probably never actually stepped foot in states like West Virginia, Kentucky, or Louisiana, you probably don't understand why they ACTUALLY turned from Clinton to Bush and never will. Same reason you smugly proclaimed Bevin the winner in KY and mocked me for mocking you. You were wrong then and you're wrong here. You just fundamentally misunderstand politics. It's the wrong field for you, my friend. Go program some calculators somewhere. Anything with a human element involved is clearly beyond your comprehension.

I mean seriously: Clinton not only won states like WV and LA in 1996, he did so with absolute outright majorities by double digit margins, sweeping many counties Democrats haven't been even remotely competitive in since. There is no way to neatly explain this with some computer model, which is why a human bot such as yourself probably explodes trying to make sense of these "trends." The only explanation is factors that can't be quantified so easily came into play, and made a HUGE difference. Deal with it.
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Fuzzy Bear
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2022, 10:57:25 PM »

He'd not have been taken seriously and he'd have been creamed.

Now if Bush 41 had run for a second term in 1996 THAT might have been interesting. 
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