Should NATO offer Russia membership in exchange for them ending the war?

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

With respect to the Nazi Germany analogy, this did actually happen. It was called the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and it didn’t work out so well for the Soviets.

Molotov-Rippentrop wasn't necessarily a bad thing for Soviet interests. It did put hundreds of additional miles between the German border and Moscow, which was space that it did benefit from. Better than the alternative of Hitler swallowing ALL of Poland.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It is not certain that that was the 'alternative': the invasion of Poland from the West was not actually very successful at first and only became so after the country was then invaded from the East. It was a wicked act and also a rather stupid one.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

I see Mr. TheReckoning has decided to stop beating around the bush. I wonder if this is the same alternate universe where Abraham Lincoln exterminated 90% of southerners during the Civil War?

[free my dawg]

Tell me, what level of Jew death is acceptable to you?

0. Which is why it would’ve been preferable to allow Nazi Germany to exist in peace vs letting it be destroyed in war. The latter was done, and it led to millions of Jews being killed.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Setting aside the morally obnoxious Nazi apologia (Jesus Christ), Mr. TheReckoning does understand the point of a military alliance is to defend against some foe? What possible purpose would NATO serve were Russia a member? Defending against the Austrians?

[TheReckoning]

Setting aside the morally obnoxious Nazi apologia (Jesus Christ), Mr. TheReckoning does understand the point of a military alliance is to defend against some foe? What possible purpose would NATO serve were Russia a member? Defending against the Austrians?

1. There is no Nazi apologia anywhere in my posts. Stop the libel, it’s disgusting.

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

Also, is the 2nd paragraph anything that a Nazi would write?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Setting aside the morally obnoxious Nazi apologia (Jesus Christ), Mr. TheReckoning does understand the point of a military alliance is to defend against some foe? What possible purpose would NATO serve were Russia a member? Defending against the Austrians?

1. There is no Nazi apologia anywhere in my posts. Stop the libel, it’s disgusting.

It can't be libel if it's true.

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

Also, is the 2nd paragraph anything that a Nazi would write?

You wrote it, so I guess so!

[TheReckoning]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

You are the whole circus. Just say you think NATO should disband, then!

[TheReckoning]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

You are the whole circus. Just say you think NATO should disband, then!

My whole point is the U.S.A et al. should be working to form alliances with countries, not kill existing ones. 

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

You are the whole circus. Just say you think NATO should disband, then!

My whole point is the U.S.A et al. should be working to form alliances with countries, not kill existing ones. 

Is your skull fused from a repurposed nuclear bunker? The purpose of a military alliance is to defend against a common enemy. NATO's common enemy is Russia. If Russia joined, what purpose would NATO serve?

[TheReckoning]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

You are the whole circus. Just say you think NATO should disband, then!

My whole point is the U.S.A et al. should be working to form alliances with countries, not kill existing ones. 

Is your skull fused from a repurposed nuclear bunker? The purpose of a military alliance is to defend against a common enemy. NATO's common enemy is Russia. If Russia joined, what purpose would NATO serve?

There is literally no reason why Russia should be an enemy to begin with. The goals of the people of Russia are their prosperity and nothing more. Their prosperity doesn’t necessarily have to come at the expense of ours. Their ideology is not necessarily at odds with ours, given we respect each other’s sovereignty over our own affairs.

Given all of this, we need to be working on making Russia not an enemy. Russia doesn’t want to be enemies. It’s on us to make that go both ways. Only the military-industrial complex would be harmed by this, literally everyone else would benefit.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

2. It’s 2022. We need to get out of this militaristic mindset of asking ourselves the questions, “who are our enemies, and how do we prevent them from defeating us?” The only people who benefit from this mindset are the military industrial complex. The people of Russia are just like us- they don’t want war, they want to live in peace and know that they’re livelihood’s aren’t at stake. They do not have conflicting goals with us, should we not seek out war and violence. We should be seeking peace and harmony with Russia, and all other countries. A great way of doing that is bringing more countries into our alliances.

But that is the POINT of a military alliance! You did not say "Russia should join the EU." You said Russia should join NATO. That is very obviously stupid, as the point of NATO is to defend against Russia: Russia has nothing to gain by being protected from itself!

If the whole point of NATO is to defend against Russia, it’s time to change that. We should stop antagonizing other countries unless they have given us no choice.

You are the whole circus. Just say you think NATO should disband, then!

My whole point is the U.S.A et al. should be working to form alliances with countries, not kill existing ones.  

Is your skull fused from a repurposed nuclear bunker? The purpose of a military alliance is to defend against a common enemy. NATO's common enemy is Russia. If Russia joined, what purpose would NATO serve?

There is literally no reason why Russia should be an enemy to begin with. The goals of the people of Russia are their prosperity and nothing more. Their prosperity doesn’t necessarily have to come at the expense of ours. Their ideology is not necessarily at odds with ours, given we respect each other’s sovereignty over our own affairs.

Given all of this, we need to be working on making Russia not an enemy. Russia doesn’t want to be enemies. It’s on us to make that go both ways. Only the military-industrial complex would be harmed by this, literally everyone else would benefit.

You did not answer my question. What is the purpose of a military alliance if not to defend against a common enemy?

There is, ofc, a reason why the NATO member states feel a need to defend against Russia, and it is because Russia has not historically respected their neighbors' "sovereignty over their own affairs." But you know that & are lying about it, because you are insane and a Nazi.

[TheReckoning]

You did not answer my question. What is the purpose of a military alliance if not to defend against a common enemy?

There is, ofc, a reason why the NATO member states feel a need to defend against Russia, and it is because Russia has not historically respected their neighbors' "sovereignty over their own affairs." But you know that & are lying about it, because you are insane and a Nazi.

You seem to be someone who cares to learn about history, so I’m really surprised you don’t see the problem with calling someone pro-Russia and a Nazi at the same time.

If you’re asking “what would be NATO’s point if not to be defend against Russia”, the answer would be assure non-agression and collaboration amongst it’s member states, and defend member states against its enemies.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

You did not answer my question. What is the purpose of a military alliance if not to defend against a common enemy?

There is, ofc, a reason why the NATO member states feel a need to defend against Russia, and it is because Russia has not historically respected their neighbors' "sovereignty over their own affairs." But you know that & are lying about it, because you are insane and a Nazi.

You seem to be someone who cares to learn about history, so I’m really surprised you don’t see the problem with calling someone pro-Russia and a Nazi at the same time.

If you’re asking “what would be NATO’s point if not to be defend against Russia”, the answer would be assure non-agression and collaboration amongst it’s member states, and defend member states against its enemies.

You are describing a political or economic alliance, such as the EU. NATO is a military alliance. What common enemies do NATO and Russia need to be defended against, that would make it in either's interests for Russia to join NATO?

It is very possible to be both pro-Russian and a Nazi, as your hero Herr Ribbentrop would tell you!

[TheReckoning]

You did not answer my question. What is the purpose of a military alliance if not to defend against a common enemy?

There is, ofc, a reason why the NATO member states feel a need to defend against Russia, and it is because Russia has not historically respected their neighbors' "sovereignty over their own affairs." But you know that & are lying about it, because you are insane and a Nazi.

You seem to be someone who cares to learn about history, so I’m really surprised you don’t see the problem with calling someone pro-Russia and a Nazi at the same time.

If you’re asking “what would be NATO’s point if not to be defend against Russia”, the answer would be assure non-agression and collaboration amongst it’s member states, and defend member states against its enemies.

You are describing a political or economic alliance, such as the EU. NATO is a military alliance. What common enemies do NATO and Russia need to be defended against, that would make it in either's interests for Russia to join NATO?

It is very possible to be both pro-Russian and a Nazi, as your hero Herr Ribbentrop would tell you!

China + Allies, perhaps? Really the only country that could ever threaten NATO or Russia, unless something significant changes in the future, even though those respective sides may have other foes. But I wouldn’t mind China joining NATO too, although we would be talking about a different alliance altogether at that point as a successor to NATO.

However, the idea is that if Russia were to join NATO, it would neutralize the threat that each of those sides pose to one another.

[PSOL]

I hope not, the way I see it is that there is more opportunity now for maximum concession extraction then any other time in almost four decades.

That is probably the way the US and most of Eastern Europe see things in the (unlikely, IMO) event of a total Russian defeat. However, when your former rival is on the floor, you can also offer him a hand up and make amends.

In this scenario, and assuming Putin goes, there will be the biggest window of opportunity since the early 2000s to bring Russia into the European fold. That will still be a small window, but it’s going to tempt some EU leaders - and perhaps it should. That wouldn’t look like an immediate offer of EU membership, but they could offer more economic support/do less pillaging than they did in the 90s.

Who said anything about states?

[CumbrianLefty]

It is very possible to be both pro-Russian and a Nazi, as your hero Herr Ribbentrop would tell you!

Indeed there are actual Russian Nazis, some of whom are fighting in this war (even if they don't get as much attention as the Azov Battalion)

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

I hope not, the way I see it is that there is more opportunity now for maximum concession extraction then any other time in almost four decades.

That is probably the way the US and most of Eastern Europe see things in the (unlikely, IMO) event of a total Russian defeat. However, when your former rival is on the floor, you can also offer him a hand up and make amends.

In this scenario, and assuming Putin goes, there will be the biggest window of opportunity since the early 2000s to bring Russia into the European fold. That will still be a small window, but it’s going to tempt some EU leaders - and perhaps it should. That wouldn’t look like an immediate offer of EU membership, but they could offer more economic support/do less pillaging than they did in the 90s.

Who said anything about states?

What do you mean? I’m a bit sleep deprived.

[NewYorkExpress]

Russia doesn't want to be part of NATO. They want NATO to not exist.

[CumbrianLefty]

Russia doesn't want to be part of NATO. They want NATO to not exist.

This is true at present, yes.