Historic Political Narratives You Disagree With

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

[Skill and Chance]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

Yes, there have been several presidents with idiosyncratic views compared to the average politician of their party in their day.  Given that there are less than 50 of them and personal brand matters a great deal in winning the nomination, there's no regression to the mean. They do tend to pull the party with them over time, but this isn't guaranteed.

Trump, Carter, Ike, and Teddy Roosevelt were all notably out of sync with the average views of their party on the day they took office.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

The narrative that the progress achived by the US Civil Rights Movement was achieved by Malcom X playing a "bad cop" to MLK's "good cop". Similarly Fethism for Black Panthers and the Nation of Islam as somehow representing the real desirsed and thoughts of the african americans over the actual movements they mainly supported.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Long live the horseRiders, who brought us aristoCracy, individuality, liberties, drama, history (in a real sense) instead of all those boring and static theoCracies before!

This may be my favorite sentence e'er written.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

A conclusion that gives both Eisenhower and most (ie. to Ike's Right) Republicans of that era way more credit from a liberal-left view than they deserve!

Oh, and Nelson Rockefeller was Bad, just ftr

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

[All Along The Watchtower]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

[Wiswylfen]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

Don't forget where a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans came from. Barely twenty years old by then.

[darklordoftech]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

Don't forget where a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans came from. Barely twenty years old by then.

What are you referring to?

[Wiswylfen]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

Don't forget where a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans came from. Barely twenty years old by then.

What are you referring to?

Previously Democratic-voting Germans abandoned the party in significant numbers over their sympathy for Nazi Germany.

[Libertas Vel Mors]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

Don't forget where a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans came from. Barely twenty years old by then.

What are you referring to?

Previously Democratic-voting Germans abandoned the party in significant numbers over their sympathy for Nazi Germany.

Ironic that a thread about bad historic narratives would attract a bad historic narrative. There are 3 issues with your claim.

First, you're ignoring historic German-American Republican voting. German-Americans were not previously Democratic-voting prior to 1940: Protestant German-Americans were a longstanding part of the GOP base, and Catholic German-Americans were part of the GOP base from 1896-1928. Much, even most, of the German-American 1940 swing was reversion to the mean by previously Republican leaning voters, of the type that also happened in states like Colorado with smaller German populations.

Secondly, you're focusing on the German-American swing, while ignoring other swings that also happened in 1940. Yes, some German-Americans flipped back R (though not all: Wisconsin, the most German-American state, notably didn't) but so did plenty of other Americans: 1940 saw a nationwide anti-Roosevelt swing because of a variety of factors, including the Roosevelt Recession, Roosevelt seeking a third term, and more (yes, including opposition to entering the second World War).

Finally, you're conflating isolationism with Nazi sympathy. Many German-Americans had lingering anti-war sentiment from their experiences during the First World War, and many Americans of all stripes during this period were isolationist. Deriding German-Americans as Nazi sympathizers ignores that many of those you deride as such would later go on to fight the Nazis, had views no different than their non-German-American neighbors, and had understandable reasons for being wary of entering the war.

[Wiswylfen]

The notion that the 1950s was the most prosperous decade in US history, that America had a stronger welfare state and it was some sort of progressive epoch with Eisenhower being to the left of Bernie Sanders. A quarter of the country lived in poverty and Medicare and Medicaid were non-existent. Eisenhower was a fiscal conservative who refused to deficit spend even in the midst of a recession. The only reason he kept the tax rate as high as it was was because fiscally conservative dogma was balanced budgets at the time rather then supply side.

Related : people getting confused between Eisenhower and the median republican of his time, and erroneously concluding the GOP of that era were defined by their good natured moderation

There were some very hard right Republicans, especially in the Midwest. The strength of the unions in elections like 1958 washed them out of office.

Noted Moderate Nice Guy FFs like *checks notes* Robert Taft, John Bricker, William Jenner, literally Joseph McCarthy...

Don't forget where a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans came from. Barely twenty years old by then.

What are you referring to?

Previously Democratic-voting Germans abandoned the party in significant numbers over their sympathy for Nazi Germany.

Ironic that a thread about bad historic narratives would attract a bad historic narrative. There are 3 issues with your claim.

First, you're ignoring historic German-American Republican voting. German-Americans were not previously Democratic-voting prior to 1940: Protestant German-Americans were a longstanding part of the GOP base, and Catholic German-Americans were part of the GOP base from 1896-1928. Much, even most, of the German-American 1940 swing was reversion to the mean by previously Republican leaning voters, of the type that also happened in states like Colorado with smaller German populations.

Secondly, you're focusing on the German-American swing, while ignoring other swings that also happened in 1940. Yes, some German-Americans flipped back R (though not all: Wisconsin, the most German-American state, notably didn't) but so did plenty of other Americans: 1940 saw a nationwide anti-Roosevelt swing because of a variety of factors, including the Roosevelt Recession, Roosevelt seeking a third term, and more (yes, including opposition to entering the second World War).

Finally, you're conflating isolationism with Nazi sympathy. Many German-Americans had lingering anti-war sentiment from their experiences during the First World War, and many Americans of all stripes during this period were isolationist. Deriding German-Americans as Nazi sympathizers ignores that many of those you deride as such would later go on to fight the Nazis, had views no different than their non-German-American neighbors, and had understandable reasons for being wary of entering the war.

‘Democratic-voting Germans’ = Germans who voted for the Democrats, not ‘Germans voted for the Democrats’. While it may well have represented a reversion in Protestant German areas (not Catholic ones), this was a reversion far above the national anti-Roosevelt swing. This map and Kevin Phillips’ map of areas of German-American settlement line up together quite neatly.

Many German-Americans in these places and elsewhere did go to fight the Nazis. That does not change that these voters (not all German-Americans) voted out of opposition to Roosevelt’s anti-Nazi foreign policy and continued these patterns while their country was at war with Germany. This is not a ‘bad historic narrative’ but a fact.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Many more German Americans fought in the US Army then for Nazi Germany, though.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Many German-Americans in these places and elsewhere did go to fight the Nazis. That does not change that these voters (not all German-Americans) voted out of opposition to Roosevelt’s anti-Nazi foreign policy and continued these patterns while their country was at war with Germany. This is not a ‘bad historic narrative’ but a fact.

So you claimed that Nazi-sympathizing German-Americans drove

a lot of that rural Midwestern support for the Republicans

which is a pretty sweeping claim. Not denying that there were Nazi-sympathizing German-Americans, perhaps especially in these areas, but as Yankee alluded to, it seems reasonable to assume that German-American immigrants and their children would be especially less likely to support American involvement in another calamitous world war in which their country of origin was on the opposing side.

Not saying they were right to oppose it, but that didn't necessarily make them Nazi sympathizers.

[KaiserDave]

That George W. Bush was a clueless President who sat in a chair while Dick Cheney did everything.

[MiddleRoad]

That monarchy is inherently bad, and democracy is inherently good.

[1978 New Wave skinny trousers]

That monarchy is inherently bad, and democracy is inherently good.

"For monarchy in every instance is the Popery of government." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

[MiddleRoad]

That monarchy is inherently bad, and democracy is inherently good.

"For monarchy in every instance is the Popery of government." - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

anti monarchy and anti Catholic all in one sentence. Lovely

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

[If my soul was made of stone]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

trans twitter discovering that elagabalus probably wasn't actually a queer icon who wanted bottom surgery

[darklordoftech]

That everyone was a neocon from the beginning of time until the second half of the 1960s.

[PSOL]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

Carcalla and Julian the Apostate were also unfairly smeared.

[Leading Political Consultant Ma Anand Sheela]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

trans twitter discovering that elagabalus probably wasn't actually a queer icon who wanted bottom surgery

While I agree with you that Roman sources about Elagabalus are basically worthless, trans twitter almost certainly contains a few people who, if put in charge of a state for some reason, would behave the way Elagabalus is claimed to have behaved.

[If my soul was made of stone]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

trans twitter discovering that elagabalus probably wasn't actually a queer icon who wanted bottom surgery

While I agree with you that Roman sources about Elagabalus are basically worthless, trans twitter almost certainly contains a few people who, if put in charge of a state for some reason, would behave the way Elagabalus is claimed to have behaved.

if you were to do that upon claiming your rightful throne as queen of heaven it would be pretty hot ngl

[The Mikado]

I just can't believe that Nero was actually that bad. I'm convinced that later Roman histories obedient to other rulers made him look a lot worse than he actually was.

It's pretty much a hard and fast rule for the first two centuries of the Imperial era that, because historians came out of the Senatorial aristocracy, if an Emperor played nice with the Senate, they get praised by the historians, and if they didn't play nice with the Senate, their names were cursed in the sources.

See also: Domitian, who tried to recruit a professionalized administration out of the equestrian class (the allegedly middle class but really people only one rung down from the Senatorial super-elite) and cut the Senate out of the lucrative jobs in the administration. The ancient historians thought Domitian was a dangerous, evil monster because his example threatened their social standing. Domitian is so vilified that his assassination gets a ton of positive press in Suetonius etc as a result.