Should Mask Mandates be banned from being imposed in schools

[OSR stands with Israel]

I absolutely think they should at this point .

[VPH]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

[Green Line]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

Why do you think children, who are at extremely low risk of having a severe case of Covid, should be mandated to have the vaccine when we know it doesn't even stop transmission?  And why should young men especially, who have virtually no risk from Covid, risk myocarditis for the shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Even if you discount this study, are the benefits of forcing young children to get vaccinated so great that its worth shutting some kids out of the public school system?

[VPH]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

Why do you think children, who are at extremely low risk of having a severe case of Covid, should be mandated to have the vaccine when we know it doesn't even stop transmission?  And why should young men especially, who have virtually no risk from Covid, risk myocarditis for the shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Even if you discount this study, are the benefits of forcing young children to get vaccinated so great that its worth shutting some kids out of the public school system?

Primarily because it does a decent job of preventing the spread of COVID to others (and yes, the amount you can spread it seems to be lower even if you get infected post-vax). Also, CDC data pushes back on the study you posted. Among teenage boys, for every 1 million vaccinations, you would prevent 56,700 COVID cases, 500 hospitalizations, 170 ICU admissions, and 4 deaths. And with just 73 cases of myocarditis. Cost-benefit seems to weigh in favor of vaccination pretty decently.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/06-COVID-Rosenblum-508.pdf

[Green Line]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

Why do you think children, who are at extremely low risk of having a severe case of Covid, should be mandated to have the vaccine when we know it doesn't even stop transmission?  And why should young men especially, who have virtually no risk from Covid, risk myocarditis for the shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Even if you discount this study, are the benefits of forcing young children to get vaccinated so great that its worth shutting some kids out of the public school system?

Primarily because it does a decent job of preventing the spread of COVID to others (and yes, the amount you can spread it seems to be lower even if you get infected post-vax). Also, CDC data pushes back on the study you posted. Among teenage boys, for every 1 million vaccinations, you would prevent 56,700 COVID cases, 500 hospitalizations, 170 ICU admissions, and 4 deaths. And with just 73 cases of myocarditis. Cost-benefit seems to weigh in favor of vaccination pretty decently.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/06-COVID-Rosenblum-508.pdf

That is all before Omicron though.  It certainly helped prevent the spread somewhat (not entirely as was initially promised) but its not doing a decent job of preventing the spread anymore.  Thats just plainly obvious from the last 90 days.

Secondly, the CDC study is a counter point.  I'd still say that the jury is out though.  There have been valid critcism of the CDC study methodology.  We might as well start mandating the flu shot for children too if we're going to go down this road, but I think pre-Covid most people would have found that to be government overreach.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.21.21268209v1

Also, Finland and Sweden have stopped giving Moderna to men under the age of 30.  Of course, we haven't approved Moderna for under 18s here so for a school mandate, the point is moot.  But I just raise that to show there is still a lot of uncertainty regarding Myocarditis and the vaccines effects on it.

The costs of a Covid vaccine mandate aren't just myocarditis.  We don't mandate things just because it could save 1 (or 4) lives.  Just as we let parents decide if their children should take the annual flu shot, we should allow them to choose whether or not to vaccinate their child against Covid.  Nothing in the CDC report, which as I highlighted above is super compelling to me.

[TheReckoning]

Maybe not banned, but mask mandates became pretty dumb once vaccines became Mainstream in Spring of 2021 in my opinion.

[OSR stands with Israel]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

Why do you think children, who are at extremely low risk of having a severe case of Covid, should be mandated to have the vaccine when we know it doesn't even stop transmission?  And why should young men especially, who have virtually no risk from Covid, risk myocarditis for the shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Even if you discount this study, are the benefits of forcing young children to get vaccinated so great that its worth shutting some kids out of the public school system?

Primarily because it does a decent job of preventing the spread of COVID to others (and yes, the amount you can spread it seems to be lower even if you get infected post-vax). Also, CDC data pushes back on the study you posted. Among teenage boys, for every 1 million vaccinations, you would prevent 56,700 COVID cases, 500 hospitalizations, 170 ICU admissions, and 4 deaths. And with just 73 cases of myocarditis. Cost-benefit seems to weigh in favor of vaccination pretty decently.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/06-COVID-Rosenblum-508.pdf

With Covid basically a flu now to those who are vaccinated the mental health and social effects is worse at this point then Covid

[President Johnson]

They shouldn't be banned from being imposed. However, they should only be imposed where necessary. And this decision should be based on science and not politics.

[OSR stands with Israel]

They shouldn't be banned from being imposed. However, they should only be imposed where necessary. And this decision should be based on science and not politics.

The issue is COVID isn’t the only concern but also mental and social growth/health  of kids and an argument can be made that the damage done in that regard is worse for some kids then them getting COVID

[Calthrina950]

They shouldn't be banned, but they should not be imposed at this point. The efficacy of mask mandates has come into question in recent months, with the rise of the Omicron variant. Moreover, there are the considerable psychological and social effects which masks have had upon schoolchildren.

[President Johnson]

They shouldn't be banned from being imposed. However, they should only be imposed where necessary. And this decision should be based on science and not politics.

The issue is COVID isn’t the only concern but also mental and social growth/health  of kids and an argument can be made that the damage done in that regard is worse for some kids then them getting COVID

Yes, but the purpose of mask mandates under certain circumstances (extremely high number of cases etc.) is to prevent remote schooling or kids just missing too many lessons. Remote schooling does much, much more damage. Wearing a mask isn't that much of a big deal even when it's a little uncomfortable. There might be a few individual cases in which one can't wear a mask for medical reasons and obviously exceptions should be granted here.

[OSR stands with Israel]

They shouldn't be banned from being imposed. However, they should only be imposed where necessary. And this decision should be based on science and not politics.

The issue is COVID isn’t the only concern but also mental and social growth/health  of kids and an argument can be made that the damage done in that regard is worse for some kids then them getting COVID

Yes, but the purpose of mask mandates under certain circumstances (extremely high number of cases etc.) is to prevent remote schooling or kids just missing too many lessons. Remote schooling does much, much more damage. Wearing a mask isn't that much of a big deal even when it's a little uncomfortable. There might be a few individual cases in which one can't wear a mask for medical reasons and obviously exceptions should be granted here.

Hmm my mom though says it has cause some damage which is why imo I’d say schools should send out waivers to parents and let them decide whether their kids should wear masks or not . If they say yes then there should be a mark on their attendance sheet and schools should require those kids to wear masks .


Instead a precaution that can be taken is rapid fever checks and a requirement that kids who have the cold and cough wear masks .

[President Johnson]

They shouldn't be banned from being imposed. However, they should only be imposed where necessary. And this decision should be based on science and not politics.

The issue is COVID isn’t the only concern but also mental and social growth/health  of kids and an argument can be made that the damage done in that regard is worse for some kids then them getting COVID

Yes, but the purpose of mask mandates under certain circumstances (extremely high number of cases etc.) is to prevent remote schooling or kids just missing too many lessons. Remote schooling does much, much more damage. Wearing a mask isn't that much of a big deal even when it's a little uncomfortable. There might be a few individual cases in which one can't wear a mask for medical reasons and obviously exceptions should be granted here.

Hmm my mom though says it has cause some damage which is why imo I’d say schools should send out waivers to parents and let them decide whether their kids should wear masks or not . If they say yes then there should be a mark on their attendance sheet and schools should require those kids to wear masks .


Instead a precaution that can be taken is rapid fever checks and a requirement that kids who have the cold and cough wear masks .

I haven't heard anything about that. The bigger issue here is that classrooms get pretty cold in winter because schools are required to open the windows each 20 minutes.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

No, because masking should be decided on a school-by-school or district-by-district basis. There's no reason to decide this on a statewide level when local conditions and sentiments vary so much. I personally oppose mask mandates at schools, but I would be okay with vaccine mandates (again, probably by district) to attend in person.

Why do you think children, who are at extremely low risk of having a severe case of Covid, should be mandated to have the vaccine when we know it doesn't even stop transmission?  And why should young men especially, who have virtually no risk from Covid, risk myocarditis for the shot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Even if you discount this study, are the benefits of forcing young children to get vaccinated so great that its worth shutting some kids out of the public school system?

Primarily because it does a decent job of preventing the spread of COVID to others (and yes, the amount you can spread it seems to be lower even if you get infected post-vax). Also, CDC data pushes back on the study you posted. Among teenage boys, for every 1 million vaccinations, you would prevent 56,700 COVID cases, 500 hospitalizations, 170 ICU admissions, and 4 deaths. And with just 73 cases of myocarditis. Cost-benefit seems to weigh in favor of vaccination pretty decently.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2021-08-30/06-COVID-Rosenblum-508.pdf

That is all before Omicron though.  It certainly helped prevent the spread somewhat (not entirely as was initially promised) but its not doing a decent job of preventing the spread anymore.  Thats just plainly obvious from the last 90 days.

Secondly, the CDC study is a counter point.  I'd still say that the jury is out though.  There have been valid critcism of the CDC study methodology.  We might as well start mandating the flu shot for children too if we're going to go down this road, but I think pre-Covid most people would have found that to be government overreach.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.21.21268209v1

Also, Finland and Sweden have stopped giving Moderna to men under the age of 30.  Of course, we haven't approved Moderna for under 18s here so for a school mandate, the point is moot.  But I just raise that to show there is still a lot of uncertainty regarding Myocarditis and the vaccines effects on it.

The costs of a Covid vaccine mandate aren't just myocarditis.  We don't mandate things just because it could save 1 (or 4) lives.  Just as we let parents decide if their children should take the annual flu shot, we should allow them to choose whether or not to vaccinate their child against Covid.  Nothing in the CDC report, which as I highlighted above is super compelling to me.

Wait, Sweden and Finland prohibit men under 30 from getting vaccines? I don't like vaccine mandates but this seems authoritarian in the opposite directions.

[GregTheGreat657]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student, and kids always were the least medically affected by the virus. It is selfish to make 5 year olds wear masks to protect adults.

[Make America Grumpy Again]

I think at the least they should be imposed for preschools and daycares as the vaccine hasn't been approved for those less than 5 years old. Regardless though, it's a state or local decision. One of the reasons I disliked DeSantis and Kemp almost as much as some of the blue state governors, is because they prevented local governments from issuing mask mandates. I think monitoring based off of local and regional transmission is important too. Right now it makes sense because of Omicron, but once cases drop down to Summer levels, it should be voluntary.

[John Dule]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

[GregTheGreat657]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

The solid majority of parents are pro-vaxx

[John Dule]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

The solid majority of parents are pro-vaxx

That also doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

[GregTheGreat657]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

The solid majority of parents are pro-vaxx

That also doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

And? We shouldn't be punishing literal children because a couple of their peers have anti-vaxx parents

[politicallefty]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

The solid majority of parents are pro-vaxx

With respect to other vaccines, perhaps. But not this one. We don't have a vast majority of the population with their second doses, let alone the boosters.

Masks are needed so long as the transmission rate is above a certain level. Once SARS-CoV-2 becomes endemic, most general public health measures can be eliminated. Ideally, we shouldn't go back to the way things were before during the winter months. If you're sick or think you might be sick, you should wear a mask if you're going to be out in public. That's already common sense in most Asian countries. Endemic COVID means getting an occasional vaccine and masks for the winter months. It is not the flu though. Even with endemicity, it will kill far more than the flu every year.

[GregTheGreat657]

Yes. The vaccine is available to just about every K-12 student,

That doesn't do much to help kids with nutjob unvaccinated parents.

The solid majority of parents are pro-vaxx

With respect to other vaccines, perhaps. But not this one. We don't have a vast majority of the population with their second doses, let alone the boosters.

Masks are needed so long as the transmission rate is above a certain level. Once SARS-CoV-2 becomes endemic, most general public health measures can be eliminated. Ideally, we shouldn't go back to the way things were before during the winter months. If you're sick or think you might be sick, you should wear a mask if you're going to be out in public. That's already common sense in most Asian countries. Endemic COVID means getting an occasional vaccine and masks for the winter months. It is not the flu though. Even with endemicity, it will kill far more than the flu every year.

My prediction is that some people will always voluntarily wear a mask in the winter, but over time, fewer and fewer jurisdictions mandate masks

[politicallefty]

My prediction is that some people will always voluntarily wear a mask in the winter, but over time, fewer and fewer jurisdictions mandate masks

I'm not expecting future mandates unless there's something very serious. Otherwise, I think they'll be voluntary and perhaps merely recommended by health officials. You'll see some places with 90%+ mask adoption and others less than 20%.

[GregTheGreat657]

My prediction is that some people will always voluntarily wear a mask in the winter, but over time, fewer and fewer jurisdictions mandate masks

I'm not expecting future mandates unless there's something very serious. Otherwise, I think they'll be voluntary and perhaps merely recommended by health officials. You'll see some places with 90%+ mask adoption and others less than 20%.

Tbh I think mandates likely are permanent in colleges and there will be seasonal mandates in deep blue areas, but the amount of those will likely decrease year-by-year as even the most strongly liberal become apathetic towards the virus

[Matt24]

Of course not. Children's lives are at stake.