Yes, heavy metal music did corrupt youth and spread a bad message!

[Badger]

It's totally awesome when red's hipster Christianity and Mania for emo music collide and turn him into as bad a blue nose as any right wing socon,  and he doesn't even notice the incongruity

BRTD: Showing Atlas that "liberal" is not synonymous with "open minded" since 2003.

There's always been a huge divide on the left in terms of free speech and morality policing. Many liberals have always had a nanny-state tendency in them. Liberal attempts to censor Gone with the Wind in film schools and on television date back well over half a century if not longer, to cite one example. This kind of whiny, "think of the children!" art policing has been part of a certain segment of the left for way longer than the woke brigade of today or Tipper Gore of yesterday.

But that's definitely not me. I just don't like heavy metal music.

And I don't like emo music, but I'm not partisan enough to align myself with Jerry Falwell and start believing the stereotypes about the music promoting self harm, like you're doing with metal.

And I never said emo fans don't care about the music. I said you're a bad ambassador for your favorite genre who makes it sound like musical quality should be measured by moshpit activities that sound like rejected WWF finishing moves.

I have no beef with the emo genre. It's not my cup of tea, so I don't listen to it and I don't insult the musicians themselves. I have a beef with you being an obnoxious hack.

That's weird because you keep dumping on it and calling it the music of teenagers on MySpace and that it promotes suicide which is a RIDICULOUS accusation that real fans of it hate that stuff (funnily enough you have given a PERFECT analogy earlier in this thread by dumping on hair metal and saying it's not really metal and most metal fans hate it....I've even heard the hair metal analogy before applied to those bands from emo fans) and most of the genre's best work predates MySpace. Like where was MySpace in 1985?

 Is it worth pointing out here that you are taking extreme fringe and largely unpopular//nobody songs and groups to try to prove your point about azjandra that you are 99% ignorant of? I mean you've got more than a little bit of  Is a pot and kettle thing going here.

SUNNY DAY REAL ESTATE is an unpopular nobody band?!

Dude.

(Also "azjandra", lol, I have no clue what that is.)

 1st off, in the big picture kind of yes. Hate to break it to you, but they are kind of also rans compared  To bands that sell out arenas. I'm not gonna say that that's a major useful quality, but but they are definitely  Is the team in terms of overall popularity outside your rather narrow genre's.

More to the point, you completely missed my point. You took some unknown song from. Motley Crue than 95% of self des ribed fans wouldn't recognize, some Swedish death metal band known pretty much only for that suicide controversy and have few fans before or after, plus some largely unknown band (Lambgod or whatever?) to try labeling an entire genre you k ow basically nothing about.

 I will repeat what I said at the beginning of this thread. The fact that you readily align yourself with folks like tipper Gore and Jerry falwell to try to "prove" The validity of your own narrow musical taste is telling, and frankly just reflective of self absorption of taste cr9ssing the l8ne into narrow mindedness.

"The music isn't good unless there's a mosh put and people are wearing t-shirts of bands I like". Seriously dude? I couldn’t write something this foolish sounding as a parody.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

I should make a superhero meme with the buttons being:

"BRTD can't enjoy music he can't mosh to."
"BRTD only listens to emo."

Choose one.

Because most emo does not result in mosh pits, lol.

Dude, you literally used the lack of mosh-ability in metal (even though metal has moshpits) as a reason for not only why you don't like metal, but also as a reason for why you think metal is bad. You also used the lack of moshing up to your standard as evidence that metal fans aren't into their music like you are into yours, even when I posted a Judas Priest video where Halford didn't sing one syllable because the crowd sang every word + the guitar solo.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I should make a superhero meme with the buttons being:

"BRTD can't enjoy music he can't mosh to."
"BRTD only listens to emo."

Choose one.

Because most emo does not result in mosh pits, lol.

Dude, you literally used the lack of mosh-ability in metal (even though metal has moshpits) as a reason for not only why you don't like metal, but also as a reason for why you think metal is bad. You also used the lack of moshing up to your standard as evidence that metal fans aren't into their music like you are into yours, even when I posted a Judas Priest video where Halford didn't sing one syllable because the crowd sang every word + the guitar solo.

To elaborate, the point about the breakdowns and the sick mosh parts is that any HEAVY music to me doesn't sound like music and I can't really digest it if it doesn't have those elements to it. It's like...my brain doesn't even process it as music.

Like take this Smashing Pumpkins song.

(Yes, I do like the band. I own the album this is from.)

I HATE this song. And yes the album is great otherwise. But this sounds like just noise. You can't have a song this heavy without those type of things. No breakdowns? No melodic emo-like twinkly parts? No emoviolence style out of control screaming vocals? Then to me I'm basically a Boomer who thinks it's just noise. But THIS song on the other hand...it has basically all that stuff so it F[INKS]ING KICKS ASS

Also my criticism was that metal songs don't have mosh parts, not so much not mosh pits. Like look at that Sharptooth video which is basically a parody of that type of song, at about 1:55 Lauren starts explaining how the song is going to go in a pretty literal manner, and that's exactly what happens...and then it follows up with the sickest mosh part ever!  Iron Maiden is so soooooooooooooo boring in comparison.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

To elaborate, the point about the breakdowns and the sick mosh parts is that any HEAVY music to me doesn't sound like music and I can't really digest it if it doesn't have those elements to it. It's like...my brain doesn't even process it as music.

Like take this Smashing Pumpkins song.

(Yes, I do like the band. I own the album this is from.)

...
I HATE this song. And yes the album is great otherwise. But this sounds like just noise. You can't have a song this heavy without those type of things. No breakdowns? No melodic emo-like twinkly parts? No emoviolence style out of control screaming vocals? Then to me I'm basically a Boomer who thinks it's just noise. But THIS song on the other hand...it has basically all that stuff so it F[INKS]ING KICKS ASS

...
Also my criticism was that metal songs don't have mosh parts, not so much not mosh pits. Like look at that Sharptooth video which is basically a parody of that type of song, at about 1:55 Lauren starts explaining how the song is going to go in a pretty literal manner, and that's exactly what happens...and then it follows up with the sickest mosh part ever!  Iron Maiden is so soooooooooooooo boring in comparison.

Smashing Pumpkins isn't metal. The only major grunge bands that really delved into metal territory were Alice In Chains and, to a lesser extent, Soundgarden. Until you start getting into death and black metal, metal is pretty melodic despite being heavy (even then, early death and black metal were relatively melodic, and melodeath is a thing). And Iron Maiden specifically really aren't heavy enough that you could describe them as the sane category of "noise" as that Smashing Pumpkins song. No idea what you mean by twinkly melodies, but metal has melodies, especially the classic heavy metal bands discussed in this thread. The "noise" criticism that often gets leveled at metal is usually only tossed at thrash and heavier.

I'll concede that metal takes a backseat to emo when it comes to twinks, if that's what you mean by twinkly. But Rob Halford managed to be both a twink and a leather daddy at the same time, which is no small feat (he's pretty short, so he has small feet. Plus Kirk Hammet, Ronnie James Dio, Chuck Schuldiner, Marty Friedman, metal has twinks.

But seriously, who does more out of control screaming than any black metal singer? Or King Diamond, who screams so high that sometimes only cats can hear him; he's not out of control though, but black metal vocalists are. Or even Tom Araya from Slayer.

I'm not saying it's a problem that you don't like metal. If it doesn't gel, it doesn't gel. Just these aoecific criticisms are, let's say, not the usual criticisms of the genre.

[Samof94]

I'd rather listen to Iron Maiden's worst album (No Prayer for the Dying) every day for the rest of my life than watch some dude commentating over a 30 year old news clip everybody has seen and rightfully mocked for being comically wrong and sensationalist about how, actually, Tipper Gore had a point and Judas Priestreally did drive people to suicide with a song they didn't even write. I'd also rather listen to No Prayer for the Dying than listen to a single emo album.

No Prayer for the Dying still had a couple good songs. Up the Irons!

At least they never turned people into Nazis

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Twinkly parts are a type of riff. Like the intro to this:

Probably the proto-example:

They're in screamo songs too:

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

So... ballads. You like ballads. Good news, then, because metal has those too. Metallica's first MTV hit was a ballad, in fact; their second biggest single ever, which you have to have lived under a rock to have never heard, was a ballad. Iron Maiden has usually throws in one or two per album. There's entire compilation albums just of metal ballads.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

So... ballads. You like ballads. Good news, then, because metal has those too. Metallica's first MTV hit was a ballad, in fact; their second biggest single ever, which you have to have lived under a rock to have never heard, was a ballad. Iron Maiden has usually throws in one or two per album. There's entire compilation albums just of metal ballads.

LOL no. Those sound nothing like emo.

These are dumb lol

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Those are hair metal ballads. Like, yeah, I was half-joking when I took a stand against it not being "REAL metal", but it really doesn't have much in common with heavy metal, give or take early Motley Crue or Twisted Sister — Lars Ulrich throws a dart at a hair metal picture in the first video for a reason.

Have you seriously not heard Nothing Else Matters or One?

1 BILLION VIEWS. It still gets radio play. It's been in movies and TV shows. How have you not heard this?

Another song that's pretty hard to have never heard, though obviously not to the degree of Nothing Else Matters.

Even Motörhead has ballads. Every rock genre has songs like these.

[7,052,770]

"Fade to Black" (another ballad) is probably by favorite Metallica song, or at least in the top 3.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

"Fade to Black" (another ballad) is probably by favorite Metallica song, or at least in the top 3.

Hard agree, definitely in my top 5. Great lyrics, too. I embedded NEM and One because I'm surprised anyone can have listened to heavy music in the past thirty years without hearing those songs once, especially NEM.

Metallica has a lot of great ballads, and I'm not normally a ballad fan. Fade to Black, Sanitarium, One, Unforgiven I + II (though II borrowed its intro from Children of the Damned, lol), Hero of the Day, Where the Wild Things Are, Low Man's Lyric, the Day That Never Comes. Oh sh!t, that's actually almost all of them. Oh well.

Also, Fade to Black, if I recall correctly, was a part of the news report that BRTD pretended this thread was about, so he should know it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There actually is one song that I like that appears on that Monster Ballads by the way (and is briefly played in the commercial.) Guess which one it is.

(It's probably because the song structure actually has some similarities to emo, although this is probably coincidental....scratch the "probably" as the song came out before emo was a thing.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Those are hair metal ballads. Like, yeah, I was half-joking when I took a stand against it not being "REAL metal", but it really doesn't have much in common with heavy metal, give or take early Motley Crue or Twisted Sister — Lars Ulrich throws a dart at a hair metal picture in the first video for a reason.

Have you seriously not heard Nothing Else Matters or One?

1 BILLION VIEWS. It still gets radio play. It's been in movies and TV shows. How have you not heard this?

Another song that's pretty hard to have never heard, though obviously not to the degree of Nothing Else Matters.

Even Motörhead has ballads. Every rock genre has songs like these.

I've heard that first Metallica song before yes.

The thing is I just don't like those songs. Because they aren't emo, hardcore, pop-punk, orgcore (I consider this pop-punk but not everyone does), post-hardcore, melodic metalcore, grindcore, powerviolence, screamo, post-rock, certain types of alternative and indie rock or Bob Dylan. And that's basically the entire set of music that I like.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

The thing is I just don't like those songs. Because they aren't emo, hardcore, pop-punk, orgcore (I consider this pop-punk but not everyone does), post-hardcore, melodic metalcore, grindcore, powerviolence, screamo, post-rock, certain types of alternative and indie rock or Bob Dylan. And that's basically the entire set of music that I like.

Was it that hard to say that? Because you started off with "Pat Robertson was right! It's the Devil's music!" then it was "I can't mosh to it and Bruce Dickinson can't sing" then it was "there's no twink ballads or screaming". There is nothing wrong with not liking metal, or any genre. I don't like emo, hardcore, or really anything that stems from punk, but I don't put down the music when it's not for me anyway. You instead took three pages of disparaging and misrepresenting a genre you know nothing about, starting with a false pretense that you probably don't even believe just to say the innocent, honest statement, that you don't like heavy metal.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The thing is I just don't like those songs. Because they aren't emo, hardcore, pop-punk, orgcore (I consider this pop-punk but not everyone does), post-hardcore, melodic metalcore, grindcore, powerviolence, screamo, post-rock, certain types of alternative and indie rock or Bob Dylan. And that's basically the entire set of music that I like.

Was it that hard to say that? Because you started off with "Pat Robertson was right! It's the Devil's music!" then it was "I can't mosh to it and Bruce Dickinson can't sing" then it was "there's no twink ballads or screaming". There is nothing wrong with not liking metal, or any genre. I don't like emo, hardcore, or really anything that stems from punk, but I don't put down the music when it's not for me anyway. You instead took three pages of disparaging and misrepresenting a genre you know nothing about, starting with a false pretense that you probably don't even believe just to say the innocent, honest statement, that you don't like heavy metal.

Subculture rivalries.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

The thing is I just don't like those songs. Because they aren't emo, hardcore, pop-punk, orgcore (I consider this pop-punk but not everyone does), post-hardcore, melodic metalcore, grindcore, powerviolence, screamo, post-rock, certain types of alternative and indie rock or Bob Dylan. And that's basically the entire set of music that I like.

Was it that hard to say that? Because you started off with "Pat Robertson was right! It's the Devil's music!" then it was "I can't mosh to it and Bruce Dickinson can't sing" then it was "there's no twink ballads or screaming". There is nothing wrong with not liking metal, or any genre. I don't like emo, hardcore, or really anything that stems from punk, but I don't put down the music when it's not for me anyway. You instead took three pages of disparaging and misrepresenting a genre you know nothing about, starting with a false pretense that you probably don't even believe just to say the innocent, honest statement, that you don't like heavy metal.

Subculture rivalries.

On a forum where the majority of readers and posters have no affiliation or even interest in either subcultures? Is that really the correct medium to relive the battles of the 70s and 80s? Battles that don't mean nearly as much to either party anymore, or less. I know plenty of people who like both metal and punk and aren't even aware of how big the rivalry used to be, if they even know that they're "supposed" to hate each other.

Like, I absolutely have a horse in this race. I'm also a progressive rock fan, so I have a double reason to hate punk and its descendents — the metal/punk rivalry may have subsided somewhat, but prog fans have not been so forgiving. But look, your fifty million emo threads usually get an average quantity of unironic participants low enough that they could be counted on Mordecai Brown's hand. My Metallica/Megadeth poll has nine voters. Is this really the correct medium for the rivalry? By all means, post about your music in moderation, but if you're trying to reignite subculture rivalries on a forum where most people don't know or care what you're talking about, maybe be less hackish?

[7,052,770]

There actually is one song that I like that appears on that Monster Ballads by the way (and is briefly played in the commercial.) Guess which one it is.

To Be With You?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The thing is I just don't like those songs. Because they aren't emo, hardcore, pop-punk, orgcore (I consider this pop-punk but not everyone does), post-hardcore, melodic metalcore, grindcore, powerviolence, screamo, post-rock, certain types of alternative and indie rock or Bob Dylan. And that's basically the entire set of music that I like.

Was it that hard to say that? Because you started off with "Pat Robertson was right! It's the Devil's music!" then it was "I can't mosh to it and Bruce Dickinson can't sing" then it was "there's no twink ballads or screaming". There is nothing wrong with not liking metal, or any genre. I don't like emo, hardcore, or really anything that stems from punk, but I don't put down the music when it's not for me anyway. You instead took three pages of disparaging and misrepresenting a genre you know nothing about, starting with a false pretense that you probably don't even believe just to say the innocent, honest statement, that you don't like heavy metal.

Subculture rivalries.

On a forum where the majority of readers and posters have no affiliation or even interest in either subcultures? Is that really the correct medium to relive the battles of the 70s and 80s? Battles that don't mean nearly as much to either party anymore, or less. I know plenty of people who like both metal and punk and aren't even aware of how big the rivalry used to be, if they even know that they're "supposed" to hate each other.

Like, I absolutely have a horse in this race. I'm also a progressive rock fan, so I have a double reason to hate punk and its descendents — the metal/punk rivalry may have subsided somewhat, but prog fans have not been so forgiving. But look, your fifty million emo threads usually get an average quantity of unironic participants low enough that they could be counted on Mordecai Brown's hand. My Metallica/Megadeth poll has nine voters. Is this really the correct medium for the rivalry? By all means, post about your music in moderation, but if you're trying to reignite subculture rivalries on a forum where most people don't know or care what you're talking about, maybe be less hackish?

I'm talking about hardcore, specifically certain types of hardcore rather than punk in general. I mean can you imagine a vegan straightedge metal band? LOL. (I am neither vegan nor straightedge for the record.)

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There actually is one song that I like that appears on that Monster Ballads by the way (and is briefly played in the commercial.) Guess which one it is.

To Be With You?

Ugh. No.

No one will probably get it since it's pretty brief in the commercial so I'll just say it "I Can't Fight This Feeling" by REO Speedwagon.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Incredible. Every piece of music mentioned in this thread is abject garbage.

I am wise enough, however, not to grant Tipper Gore credence as a general rule. I used to listen to a podcast where several of the co-hosts admitted to voting for Dubya in '00 solely because they hated Tipper Gore that much.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Also the idea that progressive rock fans would hate hardcore because of the anti-punk simplicity stuff is pretty bizarre because a lot of post-hardcore is actually rather complex. Like seriously:

Or that Converge song linked above.

Those songs are even significantly more complex than those Iron Maiden ones where they basically just keep playing the same thing over and over and usually use a verse-chorus-verse structure.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

I mean can you imagine a vegan straightedge metal band? LOL. (I am neither vegan nor straightedge for the record.)

I mean, like a significant portion of metal musicians went straight edge after nearly drinking, smoking, snorting, and shooting themselves to death in their youth. I can see members of the very liberal bands like Anthrax, Sacred Reich, Testament, Ministry, even Iron Maiden being vegan. Also probably every folk metal and prog metal band wouldn't strike me as not being big drinkers or carnists. I have no clue why metal gives you this aura of not being friendly to vegans or teetoalers. That's a weird statement.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I mean can you imagine a vegan straightedge metal band? LOL. (I am neither vegan nor straightedge for the record.)

I mean, like a significant portion of metal musicians went straight edge after nearly drinking, smoking, snorting, and shooting themselves to death in their youth. I can see members of the very liberal bands like Anthrax, Sacred Reich, Testament, Ministry, even Iron Maiden being vegan. Also probably every folk metal and prog metal band wouldn't strike me as not being big drinkers or carnists. I have no clue why metal gives you this aura of not being friendly to vegans or teetoalers. That's a weird statement.

Because metalheads complained about and made fun of such people all the time in the 90s and early 00s and regularly complained if any hardcore bands got stuck on a metal band's tour or show roster because it would attract kids who would engage in hardcore dancing at the show?

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Also the idea that progressive rock fans would hate hardcore because of the anti-punk simplicity stuff is pretty bizarre because a lot of post-hardcore is actually rather complex. Like seriously:


Those songs are even significantly more complex than those Iron Maiden ones where they basically just keep playing the same thing over and over and usually use a verse-chorus-verse structure.

Don't see what Maiden has to do with this tangent. They have a lot of progressive elements and influence (Genesis is Steve Harris's favorite band), but they're not a prog band. And plenty of prog has verse-chorus structure, though it doesn't lean on that and there's usually a twist.

There's more to prog than complexity for complexity sake (generally, obviously it's a big umbrella that includes Rock In Opposition, Zeuhl, and the really avant garde stuff), but like why is it so confusing that prog fans wouldn't like anything or at least not very much descended from punk lineage (Cardiacs notwithstanding)? Even besides the very obvious fandom rivalry stuff with the likes of the Sex Pistols specifically calling out prog for ruining rock, like, ELP made a full live album adapting Mussorgsky's classical compositions with rock instruments and a ten-keyboard setup. Is it that hard to see how far away that is from hardcore?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Another example: Can anyone imagine this insert in a metal record?



Or this poster being at a metal band's merch table?