Atlas Moral Acceptability poll 2.0

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I saw someone say that a new thread about this should be created instead of us all messing with the old one, and figured I might as well do it. Added a few things I guess. Polyamory is on there too because I felt like polygamy didn't capture everything quite.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: May not always be a good idea, but not inherently wrong. Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Acceptable as long as the women aren't treated like property
Polyamory: Acceptable
Cloning humans: If we could guarantee that the cloning process wouldn't go wrong and hurt the cloned person greatly, it would be acceptable. But we can't. Unacceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Fine in the case of terminal illness as long as the person asking for it doesn't feel pressured to do it by others. Acceptable
Suicide: A tragedy. People who do it are in great pain, and condemning it as immoral is not cool because of that. Acceptable is the option that comes closer to fitting.
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable as long as the pregnancy isn't far enough along for the fetus to be a person
Cloning animals: Unacceptable, same as cloning humans
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Killing animals for parts of their corpse is bad. They have emotions too(unfortunately, I'm too much of a pathetic idiot to be able to go and stay vegan. That is probably my biggest flaw)
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable except in extreme circumstances
The death penalty: Murder is wrong
Medical testing on animals: Unacceptable
Incest: Gross as f**k, but doesn't hurt anyone. Acceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Unacceptable. As I said earlier in this post, my greatest flaw is my inability to follow my morals on this one.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

The only ones that I would say are unacceptable are the death penalty, having an affair, and incest. I would be inclined to say that medical testing on animals and wearing fur, but those things get a pass in my mind because the former is preferable to the alternatives and the latter is less on the wearer and more on the supplier.

[Ferguson97]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Not ideal, but not immoral either. Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Acceptable in principle, unacceptable in practice
Polyamory: Acceptable
Cloning humans: Unacceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Not sure that this can be defined under an acceptable/unacceptable binary. It's a tragedy.
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable
Cloning animals: Acceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Acceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable

[Xing]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable, though not ideal
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable, not great, but better than the alternative
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Unacceptable
Polyamory: Unacceptable
Cloning humans: Unacceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Horrible, doesn't really work to classify in terms of being "acceptable" or not
Gambling: Acceptable, though not ideal
Abortion: Acceptable, though not ideal
Cloning animals: Unacceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Unacceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable, except in extreme cases
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable, though not ideal
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable

[afleitch]

All acceptable except incest and the death penalty. I'm fine with polyamory but against polygamy, simply because it's not yet being equally advocated by non patriarchal or heteronormative units wanting validation of that unit by the state. This is starting to change so my views could shift.

[Aurelius]

Gay or lesbian relations: acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: unacceptable; the parents should plan on marrying if this happens unplanned
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: acceptable, although the risk of the above must be acknowledged
Divorce: acceptable if kids are not involved; unacceptable if kids are involved and it's not an absolute last resort
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: probably acceptable from a rational POV, but rubs me the wrong way for some reason
Polygamy: unacceptable
Polyamory: unacceptable
Cloning humans: flagrantly unacceptable, and anyone who engages in it ought to be thrown in the slammer for life
Doctor-assisted suicide: unacceptable in the institutionalized form seen in some European countries; acceptable if it's just giving a patient on their deathbed a high dose of morphine to alleviate their pain knowing it might also bring things to a swifter end
Suicide: tragic, sad, and wrong; I understand that for some it feels like the only way out, but that does not make it right
Gambling: acceptable
Abortion: probably acceptable in first trimester (unless it's something heinous like sex selective abortion), definitely unacceptable late stage, acceptable for rape or threat to life of mother; my views on this are fuzzy and not exactly pinned down firmly
Cloning animals: unacceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: acceptable
Married men and women having an affair: unacceptable
The death penalty: acceptable
Medical testing on animals: acceptable and necessary
Incest: unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: acceptable

[dead0man]

all acceptable except adultery and incest (and there are situations when even those are acceptable)

[Aurelius]

Glad to see Atlas has moved past the intellectually preteen attitude of "iNcEsT iS oKaY iF eVeRyOnE cOnSeNtS" seen on so many old polls that get bumped.

[LBJer]

I didn't vote on incest, but voted "acceptable" for all of the rest except medical testing on animals, the death penalty, cloning humans, and buying fur clothing.  I gave my reasons for rejecting these on the previous thread where this sort of poll was done. 

I will say that I frankly don't understand why many people say that suicide or doctor-assisted suicide is only okay if someone has a "terminal" illness.  There are diseases like Alzheimer's that, while not "terminal" in a physical sense, might well be seen as worse than death by a rational person. 

[Alben Barkley]

Oh lord, I'm actually on Atlas's side on every issue here except suicide. And that's because I can't condemn someone for being in so much pain and/or so mentally ill they kill themselves, it just feels wrong to call that an immoral act even if it's a regrettable one.

[President Johnson]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Unsure
Polyamory: Unsure
Cloning humans: Acceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Can't be answered, obviously it should be done everything possible for prevention
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable
Cloning animals: Acceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Acceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Acceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable

[PSOL]

Only Polygamy, incest, the death penalty, and fur are unacceptable

[Devout Centrist]

Absolutely haram

[Biden his time]

Acceptable

Divorce
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur
The death penalty
Medical testing on animals
Eating meat
Using animal products

Unacceptable

Gay or Lesbian Relations
Having a baby outside of marriage
Sex between an unmarried man and woman
Polyamory
Doctor-assisted suicide
Suicide
Gambling
Married men and women having an affair
Incest

[SWE]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Acceptable
Polyamory: Acceptable
Cloning humans: Acceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Not a moral question
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable
Cloning animals: Unacceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Unacceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable
Medical testing on animals: Unacceptable
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Unacceptable

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Acceptable in theory, often problematic in practice
Polyamory: Acceptable
Cloning humans: Unacceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Acceptable
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable
Cloning animals: Unacceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Unacceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable
Medical testing on animals: Unacceptable
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Unacceptable

[😥]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Unacceptable
Polyamory: Unacceptable
Cloning humans: Unacceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Should be avoided
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Should be avoided in most cases
Cloning animals: Acceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Acceptable
Married men and women having an affair: Unacceptable
The death penalty: Acceptable
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable
Incest: Unacceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable

[John Dule]

Why in the world should cloning humans be considered unacceptable?

[Person Man]

For the sake of this poll, I considered things that were immoral(I would not condone for myself or my family), but not unethical (things I think are bad and make you bad if you do them) as "moral  acceptable".

Those things, to a certain extent are -

Homosexual Relations- Its clear that the religion I still subscribe to thinks its a sin but it looks like it might also be a sin not to tolerate it and the behavior itself does no one any damage)


Polyamory- At least twice in my life I had to avoid dating two women at the same time. I was also uncomfortable when I was being set up on dates when I was still just casual with my wife. That said, I sure there are people who are totally fine with doing this and they don't appear to be doing anything that should concern me in itself.


Gambling- I just think its stupid. So I consider it "acceptable".

Abortion- If I had ever gotten anyone pregnant who didn't want to be pregnant, I would support them no matter what decision they made but I would not actively support their decision to abort above and beyond refusing to talk to the police (if the church is in charge of the state of the events). That said, I think abortion is probably a good idea if the police have to get involved into the situation for other reasons. I commend women who desire to bring their pregnancy to turn despite unusual odds, but will not think less of anyone for aborting for severe fetal defects or if the pregnancy in question would cause the woman to no longer be able to get pregnant and an abortion could prevent it. Again, I wouldn't help with the abortion in those scenarios (money, transportation).


Divorce- I think its immoral to just give up in 95% of situations, but I don't think its unethical and even if the church that one only should be able to get an annulment, The Gospel of Mathew clearly states that you should get a divorce if there is adultery.


Things I openly tolerate-

premarital sex- It causes problems but also an important part of how things work in free industrial and post-industrial society. In societies where the parents at least help with arranging marriages, I will agree that premarital sex is unethical then.




Stem Cell Research- I have no qualms about it because I think thinking that a person begins before their mother is actually pregnant is as silly as thinking there are eleventy genders. It's almost an extraterrestrial form of logic.

Cloning Humans- The more I learn about what actually happens in cloning, the more I think its a bad idea to the try to clone someone now. However, I don't think its immoral to assist in reproduction, even if it is an unnatural way of doing it. It's basically an extreme version of IVF, but shortens the lifespan of the child the time their parent had already lived. It might be possible to reset that biological clock in 10 years or 100 years.


Doctor-Assisted Suicide- Keeping someone alive just to die a gruesome death makes me uncomfortable. This should definitely be an option in extreme situations where a competent adult must make the decision between this and a certain gruesome death. This should not be available to people just because they think they are too old or to children or anyone against their will. That's murder.

Cloning Animals- Its actually a great to solve a lot of food and medical supply problems. Xenotransplants arrived last year and I wonder if they will catch on.

Fur/Animal Products/Meat- It is part of being human to kill animals and use their body. It literally what separates humans and apes.


Things that I think are immoral-

Children outside of marriage- not fair to the child and can see some moral value in those "crisis pregnancy centers" even if they are basically human puppy mills. It's just better for a child to have two parents, even two moms or two dads, than just one parent.

Polygamy- I am open to changing my mind on this, but this usually doesn't end well and doesn't really have a role in our current social set up, even if I am not concerned with polyamorous communal households in general.

Adultery- It's fraud. Pure and simple.

Incest- There really isn't a logical reason that this is taboo but I still don't think we are ready to have a conversation on this even if we can't make a clear unrebuttable reason about why this should stay taboo.

[Person Man]

Why in the world should cloning humans be considered unacceptable?

The clone starts out with the biological age of the host using current technology. So, there are reasonable situational objections, but like with abortion, the opposition drops from 80% to 40% once there are far fewer immediate practical risks.

[progressive85]

I'd like to raise a glass to the 6 people that said that gay and lesbian relations were unacceptable ... and all 6 are invited to my future wedding.  Be best...and be dressed.

[Cokeland Saxton]

Acceptable: Gay/lesbian relations, child out of wedlock, everything else not listed as unacceptable  Unacceptable: cloning, affair, incest, experiments on animals, polygamy/polyamory, death penalty

It’s sad that people use religion to justify their opposition to gay marriage. I’m all for religious freedom until religion is used as a cover for discrimination.

[bagelman]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: May not always be a good idea, but not inherently wrong. Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Not inherently unacceptable on it's own, but is unacceptable if religious cultism is involved. A hippie and her 3 girlfriends (also hippies) is acceptable. Colorado City AZ is unacceptable.
Polyamory: Acceptable. I can't think of an argument other than "it's really not for me" against it.
Cloning humans: Not unacceptable? We're not there yet. If clones turn out to have reduced lifespans then there may be arguments against it. Also the person being cloned must consent.
Doctor-assisted suicide: Fine in the case of terminal illness as long as the person asking for it doesn't feel pressured to do it by others. Acceptable
Suicide: Usually unacceptable for the grief it causes others. Obviously people who are on the verge of doing this need compassion, not scorn. Just because something's morally unacceptable doesn't always mean a punishment is the best thing to do about it.
Gambling: Acceptable. Only unacceptable if kids or addicts are involved.
Abortion: Acceptable as long as the pregnancy isn't far enough along for the fetus to be a person. Problem is how late that is. I tend to support restrictions on abortion while keeping it legal.
Cloning animals: Not unacceptable? We're not there yet. If clones turn out to have reduced lifespans then there may be arguments against it. Also non-uplifted animals cannot consent. 
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Acceptable. The actually act of hunting is more dubious, but depends on the situation in nature. If the ecosystem is threatened by an overpopulation of deer, hunting is morally acceptable. Poaching rare elephants or tigers is vile and must be punished by death.
Married men and women having an affair: Acceptable if both parties know and approve. That's not what an "affair" is though, that's an open relationship. Generally unacceptable.
The death penalty: Acceptable in some cases. Only some crimes should qualify of course. The past is full of people getting hanged for petty theft or being black and that's obviously unacceptable.
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable but must be regulated.
Incest: Unacceptable if heterosexual are the women is fertile. Otherwise fine, but keep it behind closed doors please.
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable as long as the animal was allowed to live a full life. Factory farming is morally unacceptable even though I've likely eaten meat from factory farms unknowingly.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

Gay or lesbian relations: Acceptable
Having a baby outside of marriage: Acceptable
Sex between an unmarried man and woman: Acceptable
Divorce: Acceptable
Medical research using stem cells from human embryos: Acceptable
Polygamy: Acceptable
Polyamory: Acceptable
Cloning humans: Acceptable
Doctor-assisted suicide: Acceptable
Suicide: Acceptable
Gambling: Acceptable
Abortion: Acceptable
Cloning animals: Acceptable
Buying and wearing clothing made of animal fur: Acceptable for second hand or old items
Married men and women having an affair: Acceptable
The death penalty: Unacceptable
Medical testing on animals: Acceptable on a small scale
Incest: Acceptable
Eating meat/Using animal products: Acceptable, even if I morally disagree with eating meat, and waring leather or any other products derived from  a slaughtered animal