What primarily killed New Atheism?
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  What primarily killed New Atheism?
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Question: What primarily killed New Atheism?
#1
Credible accusations of racism/sexism against prominent New Atheists
 
#2
Decline of conservative religious groups creating less backlash
 
#3
Unpopularity amongst marginalized demographics
 
#4
Discrediting itself via use of debunked talking points (Horus, et. al.)
 
#5
Decline of social conservative policies (Federal Marriage Amendment, state gay marriage bans, abstinence only sex education/stealth creationism curricula in schools) resulting in less hostility amongst secular people
 
#6
Greater visibility of liberal religion/possible increase in membership after decades of decline
 
#7
New Atheists acting just as dogmatic as fundamentalist religious people themselves
 
#8
Backlash toward things like r/atheism creating negative stereotypes of New Atheists ("Fat guy with a neckbeard in a fedora")
 
#9
It was just a trend, it was never going to last long-term.
 
#10
Other (please explain)
 
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Total Voters: 35

Author Topic: What primarily killed New Atheism?  (Read 2293 times)
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BRTD
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« on: January 18, 2022, 01:29:14 PM »

I'm using "killed" here like Finn McKenty does in his "What killed *music genre*?" videos, as in yes the genres is perhaps technically not completely dead but definitely a shadow of what it used to be. New Atheism may technically still be around, but it's basically in the same way that MySpace is still a website, or for a political movement analogy how both the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street are technically still things. And the word "primarily" because these were definitely all factors.

My vote is option 5 for which of these played the biggest role.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2022, 01:35:07 PM »

This really should have been multiple-choice, since there's obviously never just ONE cause to these things. #5 and #8 are probably the main ones, though. And of course #9 is true for most of stuff like this.
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BRTD
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2022, 01:58:36 PM »

This really should have been multiple-choice, since there's obviously never just ONE cause to these things. #5 and #8 are probably the main ones, though. And of course #9 is true for most of stuff like this.

And the word "primarily" because these were definitely all factors.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2022, 02:02:03 PM »

I'll argued the New Atheism movement died out, what I think happened was the changing structure of American society that led to no need for discourse on the role religion plays in American society. Nevertheless, I think if anything the movement played a part in secularizing the American public.

1. Think about it. Religion is now just a relic of the past that is no longer the fabric of our nation. Majority of the public is now non-religious and that number will grew in the future. When you look at it, think of how controversial it was for Richard Dawkins to speak out against the indoctrination of children in the organized faith upbringings. As the internet proved, when you have factual information on your fingertips the future of religion was at stakes and the churches are now paying a price for not recognizing this eventual decline in service members.
2. The movement help promote secularism to the mainstream public. When the public saw the public speakers speaking out against religion they were seeing some of their favorite people in various fields. When they hear George Carlin rants against religion they were being a deconstruction of the fallacy that has been speak as truth since childhood. When they are seeing many public intellectuals from as diverse as Noam Chomsky to Neil Degrasse Tyson speaking out against religion they are seeing the brightest minds in our world not wrapping their minds with the religion woo-woo.
3. Secularism has won in the end game. Look at the progress from debating same sex marriage to now legalizing it all over the country in just a decade. Trans people are accepted more freely than it would have been imagined in a decade ago. We have more social liberalism now thanks to the New Atheists who were challenging the Christian Right that seek to overturn all the fabrics of our great nation the Founding Fathers created, who were rationalists men who were not the crazed religious fanatics that Pat Robinson wants you to think. The only thing that I think is being challenged is the rise of the anti-science movement is still larger than pro-science in America. Global warming is questioned by a majority of a political party, vaccines are being hesitated by people who read Infowars, conspiracies are embraced, evolution is not trusted by even a good number of teachers.

As of now, the New Atheist movement lead a dent in religion that will mean it's going to be closer to extinction in the next century.
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John Dule
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2022, 02:04:15 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
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afleitch
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2022, 02:11:47 PM »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.

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James Monroe
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2022, 02:12:30 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.


Don't you know, we're all irrelevant neckbeards and people are now hardcore  Christians who go moshing at church.
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BRTD
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2022, 02:15:00 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?
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James Monroe
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2022, 02:16:41 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

As well the greatest thinker of the movement, my man in the signature, Christopher Hitchens.
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John Dule
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2022, 02:30:47 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

I know of them, but I've never consumed much of their writing or interviews. I wasn't aware that there needed to be a "new" way of saying "I don't believe in god."
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PSOL
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2022, 02:53:51 PM »

The Nonbeliever Rights movement is still going strong, but it’s primarily moved back into educational reform.
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BRTD
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2022, 04:43:07 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

I know of them, but I've never consumed much of their writing or interviews. I wasn't aware that there needed to be a "new" way of saying "I don't believe in god."

It wasn't really about "I don't believe in God" so much as "I don't believe in God so I'm so much more intelligent and truly intellectually superior to all those stupid religious people, lol they're so dumb amirite?"
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James Monroe
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2022, 04:49:43 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

I know of them, but I've never consumed much of their writing or interviews. I wasn't aware that there needed to be a "new" way of saying "I don't believe in god."

It wasn't really about "I don't believe in God" so much as "I don't believe in God so I'm so much more intelligent and truly intellectually superior to all those stupid religious people, lol they're so dumb amirite?"

The prophets of the New Atheist movement were not accusing apologists as being just dimwits who blindly followed their faith, what they saw was a dangerous rhetoric that was threatening the world into oblivion. Remember, the writings came after 9/11 and Iraq War, the most chaotic events of the 21th century. This was the religious right at their height of power in politics, when they seek to impose Intelligent Design on the school boards, where same sex marriage was being banned amidst Massachusetts legalizing the process. Religion was becoming a force for evil in the world through the imposing violence and the anti-rationality against scientific factual information. All four of the horsemen saw the challenge to combat the Western pro-religion bias by writing on why religion did a disservice to humanity. That straw man you used is only limited to a outspoken anonymous atheist with no influence on the real world.
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John Dule
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2022, 05:39:50 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

I know of them, but I've never consumed much of their writing or interviews. I wasn't aware that there needed to be a "new" way of saying "I don't believe in god."

It wasn't really about "I don't believe in God" so much as "I don't believe in God so I'm so much more intelligent and truly intellectually superior to all those stupid religious people, lol they're so dumb amirite?"

Somehow I don't trust you to give an accurate and unbiased summation of Harris' or Dawkins' arguments. To tell the truth, I think most of your ripping on atheists on this website stems from insecurities you have about your beliefs and a cognitive need to distance yourself from atheism in order to reassure yourself of those beliefs. No other Christians on this site behave the way you do; even I don't start religious arguments on here unless provoked by a uniquely silly claim or comment. I hope you get these things straightened out for yourself soon-- not for your spiritual health, but because it's becoming exhausting to read the repetitive threads you make.
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Vosem
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2022, 05:43:33 PM »

It won so hard that the issues it discussed started seeming anachronistic.
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2022, 06:26:26 PM »

Other: I've never heard the term "New Atheism" from anyone but BRTD, and atheism never died.
You've never heard of Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris?

I know of them, but I've never consumed much of their writing or interviews. I wasn't aware that there needed to be a "new" way of saying "I don't believe in god."

It wasn't really about "I don't believe in God" so much as "I don't believe in God so I'm so much more intelligent and truly intellectually superior to all those stupid religious people, lol they're so dumb amirite?"

Somehow I don't trust you to give an accurate and unbiased summation of Harris' or Dawkins' arguments. To tell the truth, I think most of your ripping on atheists on this website stems from insecurities you have about your beliefs and a cognitive need to distance yourself from atheism in order to reassure yourself of those beliefs. No other Christians on this site behave the way you do; even I don't start religious arguments on here unless provoked by a uniquely silly claim or comment. I hope you get these things straightened out for yourself soon-- not for your spiritual health, but because it's becoming exhausting to read the repetitive threads you make.
Nah that's just my personality. Look at how I talk about avoiding Trump precincts and dumping on the Republicans and all that.
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2022, 07:57:56 PM »
« Edited: January 19, 2022, 04:46:34 AM by Butlerian Jihad »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.



I think this is probably because the perception of self-identified atheism among people younger than twenty-five or so is no longer dominated by people like Dawkins, Harris, etc. That and the fact that it's especially clear in very-young online spaces that "nothing in particular" says nothing about one's actual views and that plenty of people who describe themselves that way are at least as nonrational in their approach to fundamental questions as most religious people.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2022, 08:34:00 PM »

It won so hard that the issues it discussed started seeming anachronistic.

This. The Bush era evangelical conservatism that the New Atheists mobilised against had massively discredited itself by the end of the 00s. In the 10s secularism was so ascendant that being a New Atheist was passé because, what were you railing against exactly?
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afleitch
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 10:55:30 AM »

I think this is probably because the perception of self-identified atheism among people younger than twenty-five or so is no longer dominated by people like Dawkins, Harris, etc. That and the fact that it's especially clear in very-young online spaces that "nothing in particular" says nothing about one's actual views and that plenty of people who describe themselves that way are at least as nonrational in their approach to fundamental questions as most religious people.

I think that's a good point. The growth in self-identifying as atheist (which when I saw this data actually took me by surprise) amongst younger GenZ is probably in part due to interacting with peers who aren't Christian or another established faith, but certainly dabble with other spiritual beliefs; pagan, tarot etc. So there's a need to define as more than just 'nothing in particular'.

There is also a tendency in American discourse to have a want to categorise 'nothings' (and atheists responding 'nothing') as potential Christians under the surface. I think because the US has been so defined by religious adherence and experienced a young boomer religious revival when Europe did not, that's there's an expectation that something similar is around the corner which while not entirely out of the question, is more likely just to be nothing more than standard western secularisation. Studies of millennials have showed that in general there isn't a return to faith, even when establishing families and having children.


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Torie
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 11:21:53 AM »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.



About only 8% of young people identify as "Protestant" now? Do Evangelicals call themselves "Protestant" in polls?
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 03:51:49 PM »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.



I think this is probably because the perception of self-identified atheism among people younger than twenty-five or so is no longer dominated by people like Dawkins, Harris, etc. That and the fact that it's especially clear in very-young online spaces that "nothing in particular" says nothing about one's actual views and that plenty of people who describe themselves that way are at least as nonrational in their approach to fundamental questions as most religious people.

Worth noting that, according to Pew, only 13.5% of "Nones" are atheists, and only 17.5% are agnostics.  A full 61% say they believe in God, with 49% being "fairly certain" or "absolutely certain."  Atheism is growing, but it still represents a very small minority among Americans who are leaving organized religion, and that is certainly not the popular narrative, from my experience.
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Vosem
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2022, 07:36:44 PM »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.



About only 8% of young people identify as "Protestant" now? Do Evangelicals call themselves "Protestant" in polls?

No, evangelicals usually self-describe as "Christian", and younger uneducated people are often unclear about what "Protestant" even means.

https://twitter.com/ryanburge/status/1480547479770869763
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2022, 08:58:48 PM »

If 'dying off' resulted in declaring ones atheism to become twice as popular amongst GenZ than Millennials then I'll put flowers on it's grave.



About only 8% of young people identify as "Protestant" now? Do Evangelicals call themselves "Protestant" in polls?

No, evangelicals usually self-describe as "Christian", and younger uneducated people are often unclear about what "Protestant" even means.

https://twitter.com/ryanburge/status/1480547479770869763
Also "Christian" often means "Not active in or dedicated to any particular church but still having a sort of vague belief in Christian spirituality." Not necessarily everyone who identifies as such even is from a Protestant background, like I said this is a pretty common self-ID label for ex-Catholics.
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2022, 10:54:21 PM »

People began to realize that the secular right, when given power, could be just as dangerous as the rabidly Evangelical right, and that they often aligned with one another.
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afleitch
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2022, 03:54:26 AM »

People began to realize that the secular right, when given power, could be just as dangerous as the rabidly Evangelical right, and that they often aligned with one another.

Except amongst self declared atheists, Trump only got 11%. This was the lowest share amongst any religious/non religious group other than black protestants.

I don't think it helps to mix up a few prominent online voices with the views of atheists. That's as disingenuous as saying church leaders 'represent' the laity.


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