Which of these "covid view camps" do you fall into?

[Frodo]

Camp 3 for now, at least for a few more months.  Omicron has had a bigger impact than I anticipated (though it is milder than the Delta variant) even as it is starting to fade. 

[7,052,770]

Basically this:

Out of those Camp 3. I'd like something like Austria, vaccinated can live life as normal and go everywhere with no mask mandates while unvaccinated are banned from most public places.

Although I voted for Option 4, with the caveat that the unvaccinated, positives (regardless of status obv.), and potential positives (symptomatic or exposed) must wear masks and social distance. I also support vaccine mandates where feasible and vaccination incentives, not that I really expect anything to work on someone who still isn't vaccinated after all this.

[S019]

2

[jaichind]

5

[DavidB.]

5.

[Hammy]

Putting vaccine and mask mandates in the same camp is disingenuous as they're two fundamentally opposed factions.

[Thunder98 🇮🇱 🤝 🇵🇸]

Cinco

[progressive85]

Camp 4:

The way to get more people vaccinated is to reach out with a hearts and minds approach, not heavy handed government mandates which fuels resentment, hostility towards Big Government, and opposition to the Biden/Democratic federal trifecta.  Many of the unvaccinated are hardcore conservatives and many are religious - so try and beg and plead with them to listen to people they respect - get a coalition of religious and conservative spokespeople together to ask those to take the precautions necessary to protect themselves.  You aren't going to have a 100-0 or 90-10 vaccination in the United States, but at least get as high as you can and try and contain this bitch as much as possible.  COVID's a vicious killer and must be treated as such...

Let people live their lives as best as they can, and return to the Hand Washing, Social Distancing, and Mask Wearing in crowded public places idea... rather than this "Mask Up" thing - and the passports and all of that excessive restriction.  Make masks a strong encouragement and you will see more people actually wearing them in very crowded places...loosen it for areas that aren't that crowded... allow people to breathe for heavens sake... Boston's a masked city and we never get to see anyone's face anymore.  It's not the way any of us want to live.

There was a quote I remember- stopping us from living isn't stopping us from dying.  I think it came from The Golden Girls, but that show was a bastion of timeless life gems... now all four of them are gone, I know I'm going way off topic here but we can't wear these masks forever.... it's not human, and it's not stopping everyone from dying either.  There's got to be other ways of kicking this COVID in the keester!

[Calthrina950]

Somewhere between #4 and #5, although I'm leaning more so towards #5. As regards to the political parties, the Democrats and public health officials seem to fall largely into Camp #3, while the Republicans are primarily in Camp #5.

[7,052,770]

Somewhere between #4 and #5, although I'm leaning more so towards #5. As regards to the political parties, the Democrats and public health officials seem to fall largely into Camp #3, while the Republicans are primarily in Camp #5.

I would argue that most Republican politicians (except for the loonies like MTG) are actually in Camp 4, but want people in Camp 5 to think they're with them.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

To elaborate my viewpoint is basically Camp 5 for people who are vaccinated and Camp 1 for people who are not.

[TopShelfGoal]

My position is not captured by any of the options presented. I guess I am closest to Camp 5 but my position is - no restrictions on the vaccinated but if need be feel free to put any restrictions you want on the unvaccinated. I don't really care about the unvaccinated aged 5+ one way or the other so it doesn't matter to me if they get restrictions enforced on them. But the vaccinated should not be forced into lockdowns or other such restrictions

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Camp 3 for now, with the specification that mask mandates should be reserved for spaces where people (who otherwise may want to not gather in large groups of strangers) are forced to congregate: grocery stores, classrooms, hospitals, etc. Wearing a mask is just really not a big inconvenience at all when you're in these kinds of spaces. I understand the resistance to it from an abstract ideological angle, but from a practical and utilitarian perspective I think it's a totally reasonable tool for the government to employ to reduce transmission.

Based on exchanges I've had in other threads, I seem to be one of the very few posters here who think that it's acceptable for our approach to change as circumstances change. When the Omicron spike presumably plummets, I would support scaling back the moderate restrictions that I think are currently reasonable. When transmission was low in the late spring and early summer of 2021, I totally supporting eliminating all restrictions on vaccinated people, and I will support doing so again if we can get back to a similar point. I understand that the instinctual opposition to regression (i.e. reimposing old restrictions), but willingness to change direction in response to new situations should be considered a virtue.

[ElectionsGuy]

There's no way this forum is majority 4 and 5. The vast majority of this forum was decrying the supreme court striking down Biden's tyrannical osha mandate. While I'm happy and relieved that was struck down (and it'll help Biden and the econonmy in the long run politically), I was also pretty disappointed that the Supreme Court upheld the CMS mandate (especially because it was so close), while many of the milquetoast Republicans on this forum thought both decisions were the right choice.

I'm in camp 4 and have been the entire time. Camp 5 seems like it would describe me except I don't think it should be treated the same as regular flu (that could change in the future though) and I still think covid positive and symptomatic people should do testing, but I oppose testing requirements to participate in daily life activities. I strongly oppose vaccine mandates, lockdowns, and forced quarantines. I oppose mask mandates a bit more mildly (they're barely enforceable anyway) but I do strongly oppose them for children. In the beginning, I would've been considered an extremist because I viewed (and still do) lockdowns as a violation of the 1st amendment. If you don't have the right to operate a business because some government bureaucrat deemed you "unessential", you are not free, at all. I strongly support curbing the government's ability to declare an emergency, and support measures like what Pennsylvanians voted for to make sure there are checks and balances between the legislature, courts, and governor on that front. I view vaccine pass systems enforced by the government as state-sanctioned discrimination, and while lockdowns are ultimately by #1 grievance, the prospect of a permanent vaccine passport system in certain places disturbs me more severely than temporary lockdowns. Needless to say, I've been strongly opposed to the covid response since it began, and that passion continues today, mostly because covid mania hasn't let up and in many ways just continues increasing.

And despite this, I still stayed home pretty consistently throughout most of 2020, wore a mask for a year when going out, and never dined in at a restraunt (did lots of takeout). It's almost like having principles and lifestyle choices are two different things. Yet many (not saying on this forum necessarily) have characterized my position and falsely assumed that I must be upset that I can't "spread covid/breath on people" at places for my convenience. Just a totally ridiculous strawman that doesn't reflect reality.

[Donerail]

There's no way this forum is majority 4 and 5. The vast majority of this forum was decrying the supreme court striking down Biden's tyrannical osha mandate. While I'm happy and relieved that was struck down (and it'll help Biden and the economy in the long run politically), I was also pretty disappointed that the Supreme Court upheld the CMS mandate (especially because it was so close), while many of the milquetoast Republicans on this forum thought both decisions were the right choice.

Vaccine mandates are an outlier issue for this forum, which is much more opposed to other restrictions like mask mandates and lockdowns. Seems pretty obvious why: This forum is overwhelmingly vaccinated already, so vaccine mandates have zero effect on the lives of most people here. I find the individual liberty argument compelling, but for most it's the easiest policy to sign on to in order to "end the pandemic" at no cost to themselves.

I've only come around to opposing vaccine mandates because of Omicron. If vaccines substantially lowered the risk of spread, I could still see the logic in requiring them, especially in healthcare settings — we should be able to require people to make certain choices if it substantially reduces the harm they do to other people. With Omicron, however, spread is inevitable, so there’s not really a compelling logic to requiring vaccinations; it still reduces your risk of dying and is a good individual decision to make for the vast majority of people, but the broader societal benefit just isn’t there anymore.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

There's no way this forum is majority 4 and 5. The vast majority of this forum was decrying the supreme court striking down Biden's tyrannical osha mandate. While I'm happy and relieved that was struck down (and it'll help Biden and the economy in the long run politically), I was also pretty disappointed that the Supreme Court upheld the CMS mandate (especially because it was so close), while many of the milquetoast Republicans on this forum thought both decisions were the right choice.

Vaccine mandates are an outlier issue for this forum, which is much more opposed to other restrictions like mask mandates and lockdowns. Seems pretty obvious why: This forum is overwhelmingly vaccinated already, so vaccine mandates have zero effect on the lives of most people here. I find the individual liberty argument compelling, but for most it's the easiest policy to sign on to in order to "end the pandemic" at no cost to themselves.

I've only come around to opposing vaccine mandates because of Omicron. If vaccines substantially lowered the risk of spread, I could still see the logic in requiring them, especially in healthcare settings — we should be able to require people to make certain choices if it substantially reduces the harm they do to other people. With Omicron, however, spread is inevitable, so there’s not really a compelling logic to requiring vaccinations; it still reduces your risk of dying and is a good individual decision to make for the vast majority of people, but the broader societal benefit just isn’t there anymore.

The benefit is hospital resources. If Omicron hit before the vaccine, we'd probably be in an Italy 2020-type situation. However since Omicron is basically just a cold for a vaccinated person, the vaccine is alleviating that pressure. As it is, there's still enough unvaccinated people to make hospitals too strained and create a really bad situation if a vaccinated person had to go to the ER for a different reason.

It'll probably be moot soon though, South Africa shows that Omicron will soon be over.

[Cokeland Saxton]

Camp 4

[Suburban Republican]

Camp 4. Widespread mask and vaccine mandates are unpopular and we’re never going to get enough people to get the vaccine so that herd immunity is achieved. Amid the already long list of vaccines, COVID will probably still be required for military service. Those who work in assisted living facilities and certain medical settings should also be required to get the vaccine every year and wear masks during flu season as they are in close contact with those most at risk of dying from the disease. But for most Americans, including many of those who work for the federal government or as contractors, vaccines and masks should not be mandated. Instead, the pre-existing campaign by the CDC to get people vaccinated with the flu shot during flu-season should be expanded upon to include COVID and receive more funding. In regards to education, schools  will have to return to normal, but at-risk teachers should receive an extended number of sick days during COVID season and students who live with at-risk individuals should similarly receive remote-learning exemptions if requested by their parents/guardians.

All of these measures, I think, are pretty reasonable in a post-peak-pandemic America. I’m really tired of those on the extreme ends arguing that we need to have a full lockdown or no restrictions at all.

[Calthrina950]

Camp 4. Widespread mask and vaccine mandates are unpopular and we’re never going to get enough people to get the vaccine so that herd immunity is achieved. Amid the already long list of vaccines, COVID will probably still be required for military service. Those who work in assisted living facilities and certain medical settings should also be required to get the vaccine every year and wear masks during flu season as they are in close contact with those most at risk of dying from the disease. But for most Americans, including many of those who work for the federal government or as contractors, vaccines and masks should not be mandated. Instead, the pre-existing campaign by the CDC to get people vaccinated with the flu shot during flu-season should be expanded upon to include COVID and receive more funding. In regards to education, schools  will have to return to normal, but at-risk teachers should receive an extended number of sick days during COVID season and students who live with at-risk individuals should similarly receive remote-learning exemptions if requested by their parents/guardians.

All of these measures, I think, are pretty reasonable in a post-peak-pandemic America. I’m really tired of those on the extreme ends arguing that we need to have a full lockdown or no restrictions at all.

I pretty much agree with this. Despite my recent antipathy for mask mandates, I'm not saying that we shouldn't take any precautions at all. Some basic common-sense measures should be implemented, but we should not be implementing widespread mandates and there should be an effort to return individual work and school lives to normalcy, as much as can be obtained.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The results of this poll are honestly concerning. For a while I actually felt like this forum was too hawkish on COVID, but now it seems like the backlash in the other direction is getting out of control.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Somewhere between 3 and 4. I don't support government mandates for masks or vaccines, but I strongly support businesses who require masks or proof of vaccination to enter. While it's true that vaccinated people are far less likely to be hospitalized or die of Covid than the unvaccinated, the new strains are still infecting vaccinated people and may be causing long Covid, which we don't have nearly enough data on to truly understand. I don't support remote work or closing schools the way we did in 2020, but more consideration needs to be given to the fact that Omicron is highly transmissible and children are not getting vaccinated at high enough rates to quell some of the fears that schools will become superspreading hotspots. So I don't really know how to tackle the issue of schools--all the options seem to be less than ideal.

Miscellaneous pandemic notes:

I'm fully on board with using social pressure to shame those who can be vaccinated and choose not to be. Now that Biden's vaccine mandate has been largely struck down, the official policy position is that everyone has a right to choose what to do with their body. However, the "free marketplace of ideas" gives me the right to call you a f[inks]ing asshat if you aren't getting vaccinated because Alex Jones told you there's a microchip in them.

I also think all public figures spreading misinformation should be required to reveal their vaccination status. Tucker Carlson should tell his viewers that he is vaccinated.

Also, I'm tired of Dr. Fauci. He should retire and someone else should take his place as chief Covid mouthpiece for this administration. The country is clearly tired of him (except for the resistance libs who have tattoos of bandaids that say "Fauci Ouchie" on them or whatever) and continuing to wheel him out to bicker with Rand Paul is just sad at this point, even if he is obviously correct.

[Calthrina950]

Somewhere between 3 and 4. I don't support government mandates for masks or vaccines, but I strongly support businesses who require masks or proof of vaccination to enter. While it's true that vaccinated people are far less likely to be hospitalized or die of Covid than the unvaccinated, the new strains are still infecting vaccinated people and may be causing long Covid, which we don't have nearly enough data on to truly understand. I don't support remote work or closing schools the way we did in 2020, but more consideration needs to be given to the fact that Omicron is highly transmissible and children are not getting vaccinated at high enough rates to quell some of the fears that schools will become superspreading hotspots. So I don't really know how to tackle the issue of schools--all the options seem to be less than ideal.

Miscellaneous pandemic notes:

I'm fully on board with using social pressure to shame those who can be vaccinated and choose not to be. Now that Biden's vaccine mandate has been largely struck down, the official policy position is that everyone has a right to choose what to do with their body. However, the "free marketplace of ideas" gives me the right to call you a f[inks]ing asshat if you aren't getting vaccinated because Alex Jones told you there's a microchip in them.

I also think all public figures spreading misinformation should be required to reveal their vaccination status. Tucker Carlson should tell his viewers that he is vaccinated.

Also, I'm tired of Dr. Fauci. He should retire and someone else should take his place as chief Covid mouthpiece for this administration. The country is clearly tired of him (except for the resistance libs who have tattoos of bandaids that say "Fauci Ouchie" on them or whatever) and continuing to wheel him out to bicker with Rand Paul is just sad at this point, even if he is obviously correct.

This is certainly true, given that views on Fauci are close to 50/50 at this point, and are deeply polarized along partisan lines.

[Calthrina950]

Somewhere between #4 and #5, although I'm leaning more so towards #5. As regards to the political parties, the Democrats and public health officials seem to fall largely into Camp #3, while the Republicans are primarily in Camp #5.

I would argue that most Republican politicians (except for the loonies like MTG) are actually in Camp 4, but want people in Camp 5 to think they're with them.

Why so? Most Republicans support vaccines, but they are of the opinion that "everyone should make the choices that are best for them" or that "no one should be forced to get vaccinated." Moreover, most are tired of masks, believe that there is too much hysteria, and want to return to normalcy.

[Calthrina950]

The results of this poll are honestly concerning. For a while I actually felt like this forum was too hawkish on COVID, but now it seems like the backlash in the other direction is getting out of control.

What is the ideal position in your view? Camp 3?

[Antonio the Sixth]

The results of this poll are honestly concerning. For a while I actually felt like this forum was too hawkish on COVID, but now it seems like the backlash in the other direction is getting out of control.

What is the ideal position in your view? Camp 3?

I already posted:

Somewhere between Camp 3 and Camp 4.

Not that I think these camps accurately reflect the range of possible policies around COVID, but camp 5 definitely seems massively irresponsible (and camps 1 and 2 massively overreacting).