After RBG’s death, Moore v Harper might kill American Democracy forever

[I’m not Stu]

Will anything ever be done if SCOTUS goes too far?

[BGBC]

lol is this a real thread?

[lfromnj]

lol is this a real thread?

ERM64Man is just Mark Joseph Stern/Elie Mystal posting here.

[MarkD]

Will anything ever be done if SCOTUS goes too far?

It's already established that you and I have mostly different ideas about what would be "go[ing] too far" for the SCOTUS. Probably the only area of agreement you and I would have is that the SCOTUS already went too far in Bush v. Gore, and we probably agree that it is worrisome that the Court might do something like that again. OTOH, I think the Court went too far in Wesberry v. Sanders and Reynolds v. Sims, whereas you think the opposite, and you worry about the Court overturning them, which, in your opinion, would cast us back into the dark days of virtually no "democracy" at all.

Whatever else you may be worried about, I decided a little over eight years ago to do something about the kind of judicial activism that I worry about the most -- the Court expanding the meaning of the DP Clause and EP Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment whatever ways the Court feels like expanding them. And my plan for doing something to stop it contains a few elements that I am sure you will agree with. My proposal is, like it says in my signature, to rewrite the 14th Amendment to make its meaning narrower and clearer. Within the draft of my proposal is a set of ideas that I really don't want to put into the Constitution, but I included them nevertheless because I wanted to acquire a broader degree of acceptability to as many Americans as I can. I don't really want to preserve Wesberry or Reynolds, but I decided to preserve them anyway, explicitly, with my proposal because I worried that not preserving them -- overturning them -- would be unacceptable to many people like you who strongly want them to be preserved.

So here are Sections 3(c) and Section 4 of my proposal:

Section 3(c): Every citizen’s right to vote shall continue to be protected equally according to all precedents (except one) decided thus far. Congressional districts shall continue to be drawn with approximately equal population in each, but “approximately” shall not be enforced as strictly as in the case of Karcher v. Daggett, 462 U.S. 725 (1983): the de minimis standard for congressional districts within each state shall henceforward be 3%. (This rule replaces the Supreme Court’s interpretation of Article II as described in Wesberry v. Sanders, 376 U.S.1 (1964).) All state and local legislative districts shall have approximately equal population, and the Supreme Court’s rulings that started with Reynolds v. Sims, 377 U.S. 533 (1964) will continue to be respected. States shall adopt redistricting processes to assure that congressional, state, and local legislative districts will not be “gerrymandered.” Iowa’s Legislative Services Bureau is one example of a permissible redistricting process, or states may adopt independent redistricting commissions that are guaranteed to be either bipartisan or nonpartisan; using algorithms is encouraged, but the power to draw districts must be taken away from each state legislature.
Section 4: The worst abuse of judicial discretion in the history of the Supreme Court of the United States was Bush v. Gore, 531 U.S. 98 (2000). Declaring that the right to vote is a fundamental right but then preventing all votes from being counted was fallacious. That decision was a serious and egregious mistake, motivated by party, and nothing like it must ever occur again.

While there are other parts of my proposal that you probably will not like, I think you'll like those two sections of it.

[I’m not Stu]

It looks like John Roberts ends up in dissent here. Possibly no more Section 2 at all and no state commissions or courts can do anything. Such a decision and more will kill US democracy. I hope US democracy survives SCOTUS.

[I’m not Stu]

I just hope that the country, democracy, and civil rights will recover from what SCOTUS does after Ginsburg died. What are the odds of that?

[freepcrusher]

I liken this decades long court battle to effectively two high school/college age girls having a catfight and it never getting resolved. In fact that's how politics has been in this country since maybe the 90s. In the past you would have conflict that would get really nasty - but it would be over quicker.

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement - is it possible that at that point someone would come in and say "ok we're even" and both sides would come to some sort of agreement. God help us if we're still having these same sort of arguments in the 2040s.

[Donerail]

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement

what do you mean by this

[freepcrusher]

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement

what do you mean by this

the spanish republicans, despite there name, were a liberal movement in 1930s spain. They're ire was not at the judiciary but toward the catholic church. So they basically went to try to root out the catholic church from all segments of spanish society. So basically that except toward the conservative legal movement.

Otoh, as someone who's politically bipolar and vascillates between left wing and right wing misanthropy - I can understand the argument coming from conservatives. Conservatives will say that the left basically owns the DA's system in most of the big cities and doesn't really need the SC to do what they want.

[Person Man]

I liken this decades long court battle to effectively two high school/college age girls having a catfight and it never getting resolved. In fact that's how politics has been in this country since maybe the 90s. In the past you would have conflict that would get really nasty - but it would be over quicker.

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement - is it possible that at that point someone would come in and say "ok we're even" and both sides would come to some sort of agreement. God help us if we're still having these same sort of arguments in the 2040s.

At this rate, the agenda to should be to get the conservative judiciary painted as a fraud on the nation.

[I’m not Stu]

I liken this decades long court battle to effectively two high school/college age girls having a catfight and it never getting resolved. In fact that's how politics has been in this country since maybe the 90s. In the past you would have conflict that would get really nasty - but it would be over quicker.

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement - is it possible that at that point someone would come in and say "ok we're even" and both sides would come to some sort of agreement. God help us if we're still having these same sort of arguments in the 2040s.

At this rate, the agenda to should be to get the conservative judiciary painted as a fraud on the nation.

What good would that do if SCOTUS eviscerates the VRA more, overturns Reynolds v. Sims/Wesberry v. Sanders, and implements the independent state legislature law?

[freepcrusher]

I liken this decades long court battle to effectively two high school/college age girls having a catfight and it never getting resolved. In fact that's how politics has been in this country since maybe the 90s. In the past you would have conflict that would get really nasty - but it would be over quicker.

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement - is it possible that at that point someone would come in and say "ok we're even" and both sides would come to some sort of agreement. God help us if we're still having these same sort of arguments in the 2040s.

At this rate, the agenda to should be to get the conservative judiciary painted as a fraud on the nation.

What good would that do if SCOTUS eviscerates the VRA more, overturns Reynolds v. Sims/Wesberry v. Sanders, and implements the independent state legislature law?

well if the biden doj can find a way to indict Thomas wife on something (and given how DC juries are) - I'd like to think it would be a kind of "FA and you will FO" kind of message.

[I’m not Stu]

Is there a decent chance Democrats won’t be locked out of power forever due to SCOTUS rulings?

[I’m not Stu]

I think US democracy is doomed.

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1506667215554326534

[Vespucci]

I think US democracy is doomed.

https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1506667215554326534

Wow, ERM64man, I had no idea you thought that. This is a completely new opinion coming from you.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

What does this ruling actually mean?

[I’m not Stu]

I’m right about Clarence Thomas wanting to turn the US into a dictatorship.

https://twitter.com/imillhiser/status/1508772669105319943?cxt=HHwWjsC5zfWvnvApAA...

[I’m not Stu]

I feel I’m right about this. Eat Arby’s. We can’t let a Republican become president ever again!

https://twitter.com/imillhiser/status/1511019594177298442?cxt=HHwWlIC--ZWUnPgpAA...

[Person Man]

I liken this decades long court battle to effectively two high school/college age girls having a catfight and it never getting resolved. In fact that's how politics has been in this country since maybe the 90s. In the past you would have conflict that would get really nasty - but it would be over quicker.

If the left was to go full spanish republican to the conservative legal movement - is it possible that at that point someone would come in and say "ok we're even" and both sides would come to some sort of agreement. God help us if we're still having these same sort of arguments in the 2040s.

At this rate, the agenda to should be to get the conservative judiciary painted as a fraud on the nation.

What good would that do if SCOTUS eviscerates the VRA more, overturns Reynolds v. Sims/Wesberry v. Sanders, and implements the independent state legislature law?

well if the biden doj can find a way to indict Thomas wife on something (and given how DC juries are) - I'd like to think it would be a kind of "FA and you will FO" kind of message.

Either everyone plays by the rules or no one does.

[I’m not Stu]

More evidence democracy will be gone forever.

[I’m not Stu]

Will there ever be any pushback against SCOTUS? The ISL theory will kill American democracy FOREVER.

[freepcrusher]

if Thomas dies between now and the next three months or whenever Jackson is sworn in - does she take his spot. If so it would be like the movie lion king where Mufasa is Marshall, Thomas is Scar (although I kind of liked scar so this is a bad example) and Jackson would be Simba.

[I’m not Stu]

More evidence democracy won’t survive. Elections get overturned.

https://twitter.com/nberlat/status/1512837635433238541?cxt=HHwWmsC47Yz01v4pAAAA

[I’m not Stu]

I don't want blue states ending up under theocratic tyranny forever with no escape.

[I’m not Stu]

Colorado gubernatorial candidate is calling for Reynolds v. Sims/Wesberry v. Sanders to be overturned. He thinks there are five votes to do so.