Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth
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January 20, 2022, 08:36:45 AM

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  Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth
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Author Topic: Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth  (Read 1134 times)
Klobmentum
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« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2022, 06:49:46 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
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VBM
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« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2022, 06:54:18 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
I pretty much fully support trans rights for adults (with the exception of stuff like female trans competing in female sports), but I don’t think that anyone below the age of consent should be able to transition. Sorry if I’m not hackish enough for you
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2022, 07:21:40 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

And you know what we do when someone has disorders/illnesses? We give them MEDICINE.

HRT is the medicine for their gender dysphoria, what is not to understand?
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« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2022, 07:23:54 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

I would think having chromosomes/anatomy that misalign with  psychology would classify as a disorder that needs treatment? Isn't that the point of therapy, hormones, affirmation surgery, etc.?

Sounds like it but I can't say it without getting moderated.

Apparently not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Klobmentum
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« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2022, 07:44:04 PM »
« Edited: January 13, 2022, 07:47:39 PM by Klobmentum »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
I pretty much fully support trans rights for adults (with the exception of stuff like female trans competing in female sports), but I don’t think that anyone below the age of consent should be able to transition. Sorry if I’m not hackish enough for you
You don't know what a transition is. Minors are not given surgeries, and very few minors are given HRT — the lucky ones who do get HRT earlier are people who have been on puberty blockers for a while, and/or are over 16 and have parental consent.  Primarily, trans youth take puberty blockers. Starting this process as a minor, I e., before the completion of puberty, guarantees the most effective, least dysphoric, least expensive transition  possible.

If you support trans adults and you don't support trans youth, you don't actually support trans people; you're not qualifie to wag your finger at conservatives who are at least open about their transphobia when your position is not actually much different where it actually matters. Forcing a minor who knows they want to transition to complete puberty before they can start transitioning is cruel.
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DT
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« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2022, 12:47:48 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

And you know what we do when someone has disorders/illnesses? We give them MEDICINE.

HRT is the medicine for their gender dysphoria, what is not to understand?

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
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« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2022, 01:38:36 PM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.

And frankly, if "traditional gender stereotypes" are the reason I've "rejected my body", then I'm not doing a very good job of living up to them.
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Paleo-Thealogian
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« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2022, 01:44:33 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

I would think having chromosomes/anatomy that misalign with  psychology would classify as a disorder that needs treatment? Isn't that the point of therapy, hormones, affirmation surgery, etc.?

Sounds like it is but I can't say it without getting moderated.

Being trans itself isn't a disorder; it's the distress that results from incongruity between one's ideal and current gender presentation and physical characteristics that is. I've pointed this out many times without running afoul of the alleged LEFTY MOD BIAS that so many right-wingers can't stop coping about.

It's not a mental disorder that I like to wear skirts despite being born male. It is a pathological discomfort that I'm on various medications to ameliorate that I feel the narrowness of my hips as a physical force compressing them, or the breadth of my shoulders as an ache so acute that some days I want to chainsaw them off. As painful as it still is, treatment has vastly improved my mental health and my relationship with my form. Some people like to treat transitioning as an aesthetic flight of fancy out of rhetorical convenience when they refuse to understand the actual pain of gender dysphoria and the life-saving effects that it has on many, while simultaneously showing no sympathy when some of us are driven to abject despair by this.
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Klobmentum
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« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2022, 09:37:43 PM »


HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Lol @ you talking about what radical activists erasing the majority of trans people. Nobody has said all trans people transition or should transition — but when we talk about how the people that don't transition are valid because gender and sex are different, we're told that we're "erasing science" or whatever. Access to trans healthcare is of particular interest to trans people because that right is under attack, but now the sane people who say distinguishing between gender and sex is anti-science tell us that we're anti-science and also reinforcing gender stereotypes.

The point is, trans people can't win. Trans people can't win because people like you don't want trans people to win. You want trans people's existence to tied to a leash on the terms of cis people, and that leash also doesn't include trans minors, nonbinary people, trans athletes, trans activists, trans public restroom users, or any other type of trans people whose existence you can carve out in order to limit the number of trans people out there. Man up and admit that all you want is to marginalize trans people out of existence instead of pretending you give an aardvark's arse about gender stereotypes; ditto to the liberals hiding behind "I support you, but leave the kids out of it and don't play sports."
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Horus
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« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2022, 09:46:02 PM »


HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Lol @ you talking about what radical activists erasing the majority of trans people. Nobody has said all trans people transition or should transition — but when we talk about how the people that don't transition are valid because gender and sex are different, we're told that we're "erasing science" or whatever. Access to trans healthcare is of particular interest to trans people because that right is under attack, but now the sane people who say distinguishing between gender and sex is anti-science tell us that we're anti-science and also reinforcing gender stereotypes.

The point is, trans people can't win. Trans people can't win because people like you don't want trans people to win. You want trans people's existence to tied to a leash on the terms of cis people, and that leash also doesn't include trans minors, nonbinary people, trans athletes, trans activists, trans public restroom users, or any other type of trans people whose existence you can carve out in order to limit the number of trans people out there. Man up and admit that all you want is to marginalize trans people out of existence instead of pretending you give an aardvark's arse about gender stereotypes; ditto to the liberals hiding behind "I support you, but leave the kids out of it and don't play sports."

This is a very antiquated and somewhat homophobic thing to say.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2022, 11:06:06 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
I pretty much fully support trans rights for adults (with the exception of stuff like female trans competing in female sports), but I don’t think that anyone below the age of consent should be able to transition. Sorry if I’m not hackish enough for you
You don't know what a transition is. Minors are not given surgeries, and very few minors are given HRT — the lucky ones who do get HRT earlier are people who have been on puberty blockers for a while, and/or are over 16 and have parental consent.  Primarily, trans youth take puberty blockers. Starting this process as a minor, I e., before the completion of puberty, guarantees the most effective, least dysphoric, least expensive transition  possible.

If you support trans adults and you don't support trans youth, you don't actually support trans people; you're not qualifie to wag your finger at conservatives who are at least open about their transphobia when your position is not actually much different where it actually matters. Forcing a minor who knows they want to transition to complete puberty before they can start transitioning is cruel.

I think that 16 would be a reasonable minimum age to start taking any kind of transition medicine, including puberty blockers. If that's supposedly too late then I don't know what to say other than it's ultimately more nature's fault than anyone else's. It's a fact of life that the brain develops along with the rest of the body during puberty, and before that happens we're simply not developed enough to make responsible long-term decisions. I think it's just an issue of whether or not you're willing to rewrite what risks a kid is allowed to accept, and I don't think that's appropriate to do.
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Klobmentum
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« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2022, 11:43:11 PM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Lol @ you talking about what radical activists erasing the majority of trans people. Nobody has said all trans people transition or should transition — but when we talk about how the people that don't transition are valid because gender and sex are different, we're told that we're "erasing science" or whatever. Access to trans healthcare is of particular interest to trans people because that right is under attack, but now the sane people who say distinguishing between gender and sex is anti-science tell us that we're anti-science and also reinforcing gender stereotypes.

The point is, trans people can't win. Trans people can't win because people like you don't want trans people to win. You want trans people's existence to tied to a leash on the terms of cis people, and that leash also doesn't include trans minors, nonbinary people, trans athletes, trans activists, trans public restroom users, or any other type of trans people whose existence you can carve out in order to limit the number of trans people out there. Man up and admit that all you want is to marginalize trans people out of existence instead of pretending you give an aardvark's arse about gender stereotypes; ditto to the liberals hiding behind "I support you, but leave the kids out of it and don't play sports."

This is a very antiquated and somewhat homophobic thing to say.

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Scarlet
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« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2022, 12:44:32 AM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
I pretty much fully support trans rights for adults (with the exception of stuff like female trans competing in female sports), but I don’t think that anyone below the age of consent should be able to transition. Sorry if I’m not hackish enough for you
You don't know what a transition is. Minors are not given surgeries, and very few minors are given HRT — the lucky ones who do get HRT earlier are people who have been on puberty blockers for a while, and/or are over 16 and have parental consent.  Primarily, trans youth take puberty blockers. Starting this process as a minor, I e., before the completion of puberty, guarantees the most effective, least dysphoric, least expensive transition  possible.

If you support trans adults and you don't support trans youth, you don't actually support trans people; you're not qualifie to wag your finger at conservatives who are at least open about their transphobia when your position is not actually much different where it actually matters. Forcing a minor who knows they want to transition to complete puberty before they can start transitioning is cruel.

I think that 16 would be a reasonable minimum age to start taking any kind of transition medicine, including puberty blockers. If that's supposedly too late then I don't know what to say other than it's ultimately more nature's fault than anyone else's. It's a fact of life that the brain develops along with the rest of the body during puberty, and before that happens we're simply not developed enough to make responsible long-term decisions. I think it's just an issue of whether or not you're willing to rewrite what risks a kid is allowed to accept, and I don't think that's appropriate to do.
It has been explained to you multiple times that puberty blockers are extremely low risk, and the to the anguish and potential suicide risk caused by forcing trans youth to go through the wrong puberty is massive. Why do you continue to die on this hill?
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2022, 01:12:10 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?
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« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2022, 03:13:07 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?

Surely you’re smart enough to know that having something in one’s bloodstream can produce effects that feel bad and - dare I say - dysphoric, right? Or at least to know how to quote people accurately. But doing that would indicate that you’re actually open to listening to trans people in good faith in an attempt to understand their experiences and learn from them, which for some reason (maybe it’s the avatar) I highly doubt.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2022, 03:18:49 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?

Surely you’re smart enough to know that having something in one’s bloodstream can produce effects that feel bad and - dare I say - dysphoric, right? Or at least to know how to quote people accurately. But doing that would indicate that you’re actually open to listening to trans people in good faith in an attempt to understand their experiences and learn from them, which for some reason (maybe it’s the avatar) I highly doubt.
If you’re talking about how testerone leads to people growing facial hair, then okay, but if you’re talking about “feeling too much testosterone” then that makes no sense.
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« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2022, 03:30:06 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?

Surely you’re smart enough to know that having something in one’s bloodstream can produce effects that feel bad and - dare I say - dysphoric, right? Or at least to know how to quote people accurately. But doing that would indicate that you’re actually open to listening to trans people in good faith in an attempt to understand their experiences and learn from them, which for some reason (maybe it’s the avatar) I highly doubt.
If you’re talking about how testerone leads to people growing facial hair, then okay, but if you’re talking about “feeling too much testosterone” then that makes no sense.

Again, you’re just plain inaccurate with your quoting. I obviously can’t speak for DV, but I have to assume (because I try not to misread things and then take them extremely literally) that when she said “how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood” she wasn’t referring to a physical sensation within her blood caused by the presence of testosterone.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2022, 03:43:59 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?

Surely you’re smart enough to know that having something in one’s bloodstream can produce effects that feel bad and - dare I say - dysphoric, right? Or at least to know how to quote people accurately. But doing that would indicate that you’re actually open to listening to trans people in good faith in an attempt to understand their experiences and learn from them, which for some reason (maybe it’s the avatar) I highly doubt.
If you’re talking about how testerone leads to people growing facial hair, then okay, but if you’re talking about “feeling too much testosterone” then that makes no sense.

Again, you’re just plain inaccurate with your quoting. I obviously can’t speak for DV, but I have to assume (because I try not to misread things and then take them extremely literally) that when she said “how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood” she wasn’t referring to a physical sensation within her blood caused by the presence of testosterone.
I mean, it was juxtaposed right next to “have genitalia between my legs” which very much is a physical sensation and it’s very understandable why that might cause dysphoria, so I don’t see how it was irrational to think the “testosterone in blood” was also a physical sensation that caused dysphoria.
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« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2022, 08:00:14 AM »

HRT/SRS for gender dysphoria is only "medicine" under a radical activist definition.  There is no other body integrity disorder we "treat" by mutilating or chemically altering normal human anatomy.  If gender dysphoria is a disease of the mind, then it should be treated as such.   

Making access to HRT/SRS the end-all, be-all of trans advocacy is a weird erasure of the overwhelming majority of trans people, both today and historically, who never medically transition.  It's also a fundamental betrayal of the supposedly-axiomatic principle that gender be decoupled from sex.  If the two are distinct, then why do we need to change people's sexual anatomy in order to affirm their gender? 

We are quickly barreling towards a future where gender non-conforming young people are told they ought to reject their bodies in order to better live-up to traditional gender stereotypes.  For some kids it is already here.  That's a future that's worse-off for everybody, queer or not. 
Maybe you're right and I am just a radical activist, but just because my experiences (such as how wrong it felt to have so much testosterone in my blood or even just sit with my genitalia hanging between my legs, how right it felt once I started HRT or went to see a surgeon) are not universal doesn't mean they're rare enough to justify pulling the plug on them. If someone doesn't want to medically transition, they don't have to.
How tf does one “feel testosterone in their blood”?
Well, I couldn't really feel the testosterone in my blood per se, the description was more to contrast with the feeling of how right it felt once I started getting more estrogen into my blood.
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« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2022, 08:48:26 AM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
Not only do you not know anything about trans healthcare, you also don't care. You pretend to care in this thread so you can dunk on conservatives, but the minute that your sensibilities are offended by what trans healthcare actually entails, you're back on the side as conservatives, denying people healthcare. You are not an ally.
I pretty much fully support trans rights for adults (with the exception of stuff like female trans competing in female sports), but I don’t think that anyone below the age of consent should be able to transition. Sorry if I’m not hackish enough for you
You don't know what a transition is. Minors are not given surgeries, and very few minors are given HRT — the lucky ones who do get HRT earlier are people who have been on puberty blockers for a while, and/or are over 16 and have parental consent.  Primarily, trans youth take puberty blockers. Starting this process as a minor, I e., before the completion of puberty, guarantees the most effective, least dysphoric, least expensive transition  possible.

If you support trans adults and you don't support trans youth, you don't actually support trans people; you're not qualifie to wag your finger at conservatives who are at least open about their transphobia when your position is not actually much different where it actually matters. Forcing a minor who knows they want to transition to complete puberty before they can start transitioning is cruel.

I think that 16 would be a reasonable minimum age to start taking any kind of transition medicine, including puberty blockers. If that's supposedly too late then I don't know what to say other than it's ultimately more nature's fault than anyone else's. It's a fact of life that the brain develops along with the rest of the body during puberty, and before that happens we're simply not developed enough to make responsible long-term decisions. I think it's just an issue of whether or not you're willing to rewrite what risks a kid is allowed to accept, and I don't think that's appropriate to do.
It has been explained to you multiple times that puberty blockers are extremely low risk, and the to the anguish and potential suicide risk caused by forcing trans youth to go through the wrong puberty is massive. Why do you continue to die on this hill?

The scaremongering about puberty blockers seems to work the same as scaremongering about vaccines. "But what if it turns out they have some terrible side effects that haven't been found out yet in any of the research done so far?Huh??" while ignoring all the very documented side effects of NOT taking them when you need them.

At least most anti-vaxxers don't outright support banning vaccines, though.
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« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2022, 09:47:29 AM »

It has been explained to you multiple times that puberty blockers are extremely low risk, and the to the anguish and potential suicide risk caused by forcing trans youth to go through the wrong puberty is massive. Why do you continue to die on this hill?

The scaremongering about puberty blockers seems to work the same as scaremongering about vaccines. "But what if it turns out they have some terrible side effects that haven't been found out yet in any of the research done so far?Huh??" while ignoring all the very documented side effects of NOT taking them when you need them.

At least most anti-vaxxers don't outright support banning vaccines, though.

Yeah, the arguments against puberty blockers always seem to boil down to one or both of "there are side effects that we just don't know about" (after 30 years, really?) or "the science is being surpressed or ignored because of those awful activists".

In both cases they are so ungrounded that they almost aren't worth engaging with. Except that they are being used to push through policy, actively harmful and inhumane policy against a group of people who have done no wrong other than find themselves as the acceptable target now that it is no longer acceptable to bash the gays of the blacks.
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