Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth
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  Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth
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Author Topic: Kentucky bill would ban physicians from giving medically necessary care to transgender youth  (Read 2597 times)
TDAS04
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2022, 05:21:55 PM »

Absolutely deplorable. 
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Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom
theflyingmongoose
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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2022, 01:24:20 AM »

Waiting for the "moderate common sense centrists" on this forum to explain to us how this is totally reasonable and any opposition to this is just wokism gone mad.

Ever consider that some of us have limits? You don't have to be a socialist or a liberal to think Populist Conservatives realizing that they can't just kill trans people directly so they need to ban them from receiving medical care is not morally acceptable.

So I, a Canadian citizen, believe that we should just expand health care to cover most people, so poor/middle class transgenders can get this care anyway just like I could if I was trans and went to Canada (well my family would have to re-apply for provincial health cards but you get the point).
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VBM
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2022, 01:49:41 AM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
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Badger
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2022, 02:00:39 AM »


 No. The point behind this legislation is that Mentally ill people who seek to deny their God-given birth gender will get psychological help and find Jesus.

I wish I was being sarcastic, but this is exactly the mentality behind these bills.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2022, 06:04:41 AM »

Waiting for the "moderate common sense centrists" on this forum to explain to us how this is totally reasonable and any opposition to this is just wokism gone mad.

Ever consider that some of us have limits? You don't have to be a socialist or a liberal to think Populist Conservatives realizing that they can't just kill trans people directly so they need to ban them from receiving medical care is not morally acceptable.

So I, a Canadian citizen, believe that we should just expand health care to cover most people, so poor/middle class transgenders can get this care anyway just like I could if I was trans and went to Canada (well my family would have to re-apply for provincial health cards but you get the point).

Okay? We've also seen people use exactly this style of argumentation to defend the bill (although admittedly fewer than I would have thought - looks like most of the professional trans panickers are keeping quiet to avoid the bad optics) so if you're not one of them, cool, that means you weren't the target of my post.
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afleitch
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2022, 06:18:30 AM »

Waiting for the "moderate common sense centrists" on this forum to explain to us how this is totally reasonable and any opposition to this is just wokism gone mad.

Ever consider that some of us have limits? You don't have to be a socialist or a liberal to think Populist Conservatives realizing that they can't just kill trans people directly so they need to ban them from receiving medical care is not morally acceptable.

So I, a Canadian citizen, believe that we should just expand health care to cover most people, so poor/middle class transgenders can get this care anyway just like I could if I was trans and went to Canada (well my family would have to re-apply for provincial health cards but you get the point).

Okay? We've also seen people use exactly this style of argumentation to defend the bill (although admittedly fewer than I would have thought - looks like most of the professional trans panickers are keeping quiet to avoid the bad optics) so if you're not one of them, cool, that means you weren't the target of my post.

One of the reasons for my drift leftwards these last few years is that the left was correct when it came to centrists and centrism They were right on what issues were nothing more than Trojan horses, to enable the populist right and they were right on who the grifters were.

So we end up with positions like these, on the back off 'legitimate concerns just asking questions' overlapping with a  manufactured moral panic resulting in right wing legislation to try to eradicate transgenders.

Which is, deep down, what many want to do. The latest from TERF Island' and no doubt on Fox News by summer is pushing an invented categorisation of gender dysphoria as 'autogynophelia'; which argues that presenting as trans is a 'sexual assault' on the public. (seriously)

So expect more of this.
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Klobmentum Mutilated Herself
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2022, 12:05:49 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2022, 12:07:51 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?

Celebrating.
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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2022, 01:20:19 PM »

It’s misleading to say “medically necessary” in this context; the headline makes it sound like they would force doctors at the ER to not save the lives of dying patients simply because they are trans. That’s not the case at all. This is just another ban on childhood medical transition. The argument that it is “medically necessary” rests on the assumption that not allowing underage medical transition would necessarily drive trans-identified youth to suicide. Perhaps a fair argument, but it’s not like not having access to these treatments would directly cause people’s bodies to stop functioning as would, say, banning diabetics from access to insulin. The bill also would not ban trans-identified youth from having health insurance, only not require providers to cover gender transition.

I don’t agree with the bill and despise Savannah Maddox. But argue against what it actually says, don’t make it sound worse than it actually is and then attack that strawman because it’s easier.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2022, 01:38:40 PM »

It’s misleading to say “medically necessary” in this context; the headline makes it sound like they would force doctors at the ER to not save the lives of dying patients simply because they are trans. That’s not the case at all. This is just another ban on childhood medical transition. The argument that it is “medically necessary” rests on the assumption that not allowing underage medical transition would necessarily drive trans-identified youth to suicide. Perhaps a fair argument, but it’s not like not having access to these treatments would directly cause people’s bodies to stop functioning as would, say, banning diabetics from access to insulin. The bill also would not ban trans-identified youth from having health insurance, only not require providers to cover gender transition.

I don’t agree with the bill and despise Savannah Maddox. But argue against what it actually says, don’t make it sound worse than it actually is and then attack that strawman because it’s easier.
So this was a case of misleading headline? Never could have seen Atlas ever falling for a misleading headline...not ever...
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TopShelfGoal
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« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2022, 01:41:40 PM »

How do "freedom loving" Republicans defend this?

Even if you think there should be guard rails around the age at which people can transition, it surely can't be these mouthbreathers in the Kentucky state legislature who have not consulted any literature on the topic dictating this. Additionally, my understanding is that this bill blanket prohibits transition even with the permission of parents. I am pretty moderate on this topic and I think at the bare minimum anyone over 15 should be allowed to transition without seeking permissions and anyone below 15 be able to do so with the approval of 1 guardian and 1 medical professional or 2 medical professionals one of whom is a psychologist if they can't get a parent to approve.

Denying health coverage to trans people on top of that is absolutely barbaric.
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VBM
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« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2022, 02:04:22 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2022, 02:12:22 PM »

It’s misleading to say “medically necessary” in this context; the headline makes it sound like they would force doctors at the ER to not save the lives of dying patients simply because they are trans. That’s not the case at all. This is just another ban on childhood medical transition. The argument that it is “medically necessary” rests on the assumption that not allowing underage medical transition would necessarily drive trans-identified youth to suicide. Perhaps a fair argument, but it’s not like not having access to these treatments would directly cause people’s bodies to stop functioning as would, say, banning diabetics from access to insulin. The bill also would not ban trans-identified youth from having health insurance, only not require providers to cover gender transition.

I don’t agree with the bill and despise Savannah Maddox. But argue against what it actually says, don’t make it sound worse than it actually is and then attack that strawman because it’s easier.
This bill is going to drive many trans kids to suicide, and will seriously harm the mental health of even more. Debating whether "medically necessary" is technically accurate doesn't change anything.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2022, 02:15:23 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare
No one is giving kids SRS. The only medical treatment a 12 year old trans kid is likely to get is puberty blockers, which are safe and entirely reversible.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2022, 02:38:56 PM »

Where are THG, OSR, Mr. Reactionary, BigSerg, and all the other Republican hacks of Atlas?
The Democrats and left-leaning independents who say they're  fine with trans people so long as they don't "overstep their bounds" by pushing for electorally unpopular "childhood medical transitions" and "genital bigotry" are also nowhere to be found.
Believing that children shouldn’t be allowed to go through gender reassignment surgery isn’t the same as believing that trans people should be denied healthcare

... That is literally an example of denying trans people healthcare.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2022, 04:31:03 PM »

Well outright banning insurance companies from presumably covering sex changes is insane and likely couldn't hold up against a legal challenge.

For the first part, the rhetoric is just very confused. If we're going to say its a mental disorder that's treated by a sex change, then yes, that would apply to minors just as much as adults. A lot of activists today don't want to do that though and instead insist it should just be an elective procedure that doesn't have to be diagnosed by a health professional aside from being "affirming". In that case minors shouldn't be allowed to get sex changes any more than they can get any other kind of elective cosmetic surgery. Ultimately you have to pick one of those perspectives and I think the "medical treatment" perspective is in the long run the healthier way to look at it.
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« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2022, 04:33:53 PM »
« Edited: January 13, 2022, 05:49:51 PM by Butlerian Jihad »

It’s misleading to say “medically necessary” in this context; the headline makes it sound like they would force doctors at the ER to not save the lives of dying patients simply because they are trans. That’s not the case at all. This is just another ban on childhood medical transition. The argument that it is “medically necessary” rests on the assumption that not allowing underage medical transition would necessarily drive trans-identified youth to suicide. Perhaps a fair argument, but it’s not like not having access to these treatments would directly cause people’s bodies to stop functioning as would, say, banning diabetics from access to insulin. The bill also would not ban trans-identified youth from having health insurance, only not require providers to cover gender transition.

I don’t agree with the bill and despise Savannah Maddox. But argue against what it actually says, don’t make it sound worse than it actually is and then attack that strawman because it’s easier.
This bill is going to drive many trans kids to suicide, and will seriously harm the mental health of even more. Debating whether "medically necessary" is technically accurate doesn't change anything.

Alben Barkley doesn't care whether or not trans kids commit suicide. He might actually be more blase about it than lots of blue and tan avatars these days.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2022, 04:34:36 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2022, 05:10:17 PM »

It’s misleading to say “medically necessary” in this context; the headline makes it sound like they would force doctors at the ER to not save the lives of dying patients simply because they are trans. That’s not the case at all. This is just another ban on childhood medical transition. The argument that it is “medically necessary” rests on the assumption that not allowing underage medical transition would necessarily drive trans-identified youth to suicide. Perhaps a fair argument, but it’s not like not having access to these treatments would directly cause people’s bodies to stop functioning as would, say, banning diabetics from access to insulin. The bill also would not ban trans-identified youth from having health insurance, only not require providers to cover gender transition.

I don’t agree with the bill and despise Savannah Maddox. But argue against what it actually says, don’t make it sound worse than it actually is and then attack that strawman because it’s easier.
This bill is going to drive many trans kids to suicide, and will seriously harm the mental health of even more. Debating whether "medically necessary" is technically accurate doesn't change anything.

It's a completely dishonest redefintion of "medically necessary" to mean "immediately life saving at this very precise moment now". Even if most trans children didn't commit suicide because they were denied gender affirmative care, the treatment would still be medically necessary because it assuages very real suffering.

Otherwise, let's just go the whole hog and ban children from getting braces or repairing cleft lip. They don't fit the transphobic definition of "medically necessary" either.
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progressive85
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2022, 05:22:55 PM »

Tell us again how the Republican Party is pro-freedom and pro-family when they don't allow families of trans kids the freedom to live their lives.  GOP is as hateful of LGBTQ as ever.
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omegascarlet
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« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2022, 05:49:27 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.
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lfromnj
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« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2022, 05:54:24 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness
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« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2022, 05:57:34 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

I would think having chromosomes/anatomy that misalign with  psychology would classify as a disorder that needs treatment? Isn't that the point of therapy, hormones, affirmation surgery, etc.?
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lfromnj
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« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2022, 06:01:26 PM »
« Edited: January 13, 2022, 07:47:18 PM by lfromnj »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness

I would think having chromosomes/anatomy that misalign with  psychology would classify as a disorder that needs treatment? Isn't that the point of therapy, hormones, affirmation surgery, etc.?

Sounds like it is but I can't say it without getting moderated.
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Klobmentum Mutilated Herself
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« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2022, 06:47:09 PM »

Although I do believe anything can be covered by insurance providers if they wish to, I don't see the reason why a health insurance provided would need to cover something that isn't treating any disorder or illness.
Many of us are incapable of living a normal life without HRT.

Sounds like a disorder/illness
Literally your last post in this thread was saying insurance shouldn't have to cover HRT because it isn't treating a disorder or illness. Now, you say it is a disorder/illness, but only on the way in which you can say so as an insult that way you can still deny trans people healthcare.
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