The theory that Jesus was a Pharisee himself
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  The theory that Jesus was a Pharisee himself
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Hindsight was 2020
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« on: January 06, 2022, 11:37:21 PM »

So I stumbled upon a video on YouTube by Sam Aronow looking at Jesus time and preaching through a Jewish point of view (I’ll link below). In the video he puts forth several theories but one I found particular interesting was his theory that Jesus was a Pharisee himself. Unfortunately, Sam doesn’t go into detail about why he thinks that. However, after doing some digging it’s seems that Sam is not alone in this theory and that others in the field have put this forth as well based on these points:
-Jesus teachings and preaching dealt with topics that were almost exclusively Pharisaic concerns. Pharisees taught resurrection of the dead. Pharisees taught end of times/judgment day. Pharisees taught that God cared (more) about the state of your heart/intentions than God cared about how perfectly you went through the legal motions.
-If you look at the Sermon on the Mount, and compare it to known Pharisaic teachings (for instance, in the tractate called Pirkei Avot, or Ethics of the Fathers) you will find a remarkable degree of overlap in themes.
-Who is present in his audiences? Who comes up to ask questions? Who wants to actively discuss his positions on Jewish law and practice? Always Pharisees.
-Who donated his own tomb for Jesus? A Pharisee. Who supported the apostles in the immediate period after Jesus? Pharisees.

So any thoughts to this theory?


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The Mikado
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2022, 11:56:32 PM »

We've had similar discussions before, but a Jewish POV point is always how similar Jesus' messages are to Hillel's, a rabbi of that tradition from a generation before, right down to Hillel, like Jesus, arguing that "Love your neighbor as yourself" is the most important commandment in Moses' law.

Anyway,

A. the Gospel writers would've viewed the Pharisees as political enemies and competition in their times, which is why the Gospels get progressively more hostile to the Pharisees.
B. The Gospel writers were interested in sucking up to Rome.
C. The Saducees, the Jewish faction that was most powerful in Jesus' day and representing the Temple priestly caste that actually condemns Jesus to death and hands him over to Pilate in the Gospels, were completely eliminated in the year 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem, so it wasn't really necessary to try to blacken their names. They weren't around anymore to be a threat by the time the Gospels were written.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2022, 06:04:41 PM »
« Edited: January 07, 2022, 06:18:11 PM by Statilius the Epicurean »

Jesus would have been influenced by Pharisaic teaching as most everyone in 1st century Judaism, but I'm not sure that's enough to say he was a Pharisee himself. The defining characteristic of the Pharisees was the Oral Torah, which at least in the gospels Jesus has an ambivalent attitude towards.

One of the most solid facts we have of Jesus' ministry is that he was originally a follower of John the Baptist, who seems to have less in common with the Pharisees and more in common with the separatist Essenes sect and the Qumran community which prioritised ritual purification in water. And the earliest Christian texts we have like the letters of Paul and the Gospel of Mark are more focused on an imminent apocalypse and the coming kingdom of God that is quite different to ordinary Pharisaic concerns. That's not to discount adoption of the ethical teachings of the House of Hillel in Matthew, for example, but the thrust of Jesus' message must have been significantly more radical than the Pharisee movement.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2022, 07:53:20 PM »

We're all related in one way or the other but Jesus was a threat to Pharasees he was doing miracles and they gave him to the Romans, because they wanted the Jews to worship them or Moses not him Christ

The Romans started the Catholic Church and we're the the ones worshipping Jesus and the Pope is supposed to be the stand in for Christ Rapture, the Jews till this day worship Moses not Christ but Christianity started with Catholicism

But was Jesus really resurrected or was he buried in an Ossurary Box, his brother James Ossurary Box was found and they had no last names back then but there are replicas of Christ Ossurary Box Jesus Son of Joseph many of them are fake
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