"God" as metaphor for our childhood innocence.
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  "God" as metaphor for our childhood innocence.
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Author Topic: "God" as metaphor for our childhood innocence.  (Read 904 times)
James Monroe
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« on: January 03, 2022, 05:10:01 PM »

For those who are secular in nature do we see the God concept being akin to our vision of parental relationships when we were more naive in our worldview? A man from his Facebook account posted this short diatribe about the way adults can't escape the religious world as fear of parental abandonment.

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“God” is the shadow memory of our parents when we were infants/children: Always there, knows everything, can do anything, loves us unconditionally, rescues/saves us from harm, judges, rewards and punishes us, literally our creator!  If you still need a god as an adult, you are still a child.   God is a memory of our first impressions of the world during the first months/years of our lives.  Every human’s. The trick is knowing this is a memory and no longer the reality.

Does this address the immaturity amongst a set of believers who cling to an ever outdated mythology? Why cling on to a myth when we know all the childhood myths were just a bunch of BS our parents parroted down to make us feel better. Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy were all preposterous myths that have been told to children across the world, only to outgrow them at a wise but young age. Children can catch on the contrived nature of those tales, how does the God concept or religion managed to escape the burden when it has not been accurate in any philosophical or scientific sense in the history of religion?

That is why I find it incomprehensible to see blind faith or faith in general as conquer for good in the world. Why buy into a system that is completely fabricated just for the promises that a all-powerful man is watching over you? We are logical people by nature, our own morality can be made up by the code of principles we followed in order to live a morally justifiable life. You don't need the Ten Commandments to talk down to you like a petulant child who needed a lesson from grandpa about ethnics in order to live a life that palatable to the morals of secular society. When we have the answers from human endeavors and other scientific means in understanding our place in the world does it really need a higher man for the individual to believe in as looking after for his interests?
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John Dule
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2022, 05:12:57 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2022, 05:20:01 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.
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Nathan
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2022, 06:06:17 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.

I don't think an atheist Bushie would have been much better. His problems were prereligious and even premoral. He was our very own Chris Chan and, like with the actual Chris Chan, at some point enough gawking was enough and the time to pull the plug came.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2022, 06:22:14 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.

I don't think an atheist Bushie would have been much better. His problems were prereligious and even premoral. He was our very own Chris Chan and, like with the actual Chris Chan, at some point enough gawking was enough and the time to pull the plug came.

His religious doctrine from his church friends and all the relatives in his life tell me otherwise. That sort of indoctrination becomes so integral with the lifestyle that it becomes a sort of gateway against any justifiable criticism of a lustful lifestyle, whose theology tells him he should do what he wants with his own life. The South in general is just an hotbed of all the anti-intellectualism rampart in the nation, which is no further supported than the dogma preached daily by the Fundamentalist preachers on a Sunday morning.
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Nathan
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2022, 06:28:00 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.

I don't think an atheist Bushie would have been much better. His problems were prereligious and even premoral. He was our very own Chris Chan and, like with the actual Chris Chan, at some point enough gawking was enough and the time to pull the plug came.

His religious doctrine from his church friends and all the relatives in his life tell me otherwise. That sort of indoctrination becomes so integral with the lifestyle that it becomes a sort of gateway against any justifiable criticism of a lustful lifestyle, whose theology tells him he should do what he wants with his own life. The South in general is just an hotbed of all the anti-intellectualism rampart in the nation, which is no further supported than the dogma preached daily by the Fundamentalist preachers on a Sunday morning.

This isn't the longest contentless, semantically void post I've ever seen on this forum, but it's up there. Good job. 8/10.
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2022, 06:28:31 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.

I don't think an atheist Bushie would have been much better. His problems were prereligious and even premoral. He was our very own Chris Chan and, like with the actual Chris Chan, at some point enough gawking was enough and the time to pull the plug came.

Recent developments suggest any modern Chris Chan comparisons are a huge insult to Bushie.
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Nathan
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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2022, 02:11:28 PM »

Sure, most theists are man-children-- but that goes for non-theists as well.

Look at that user Bushie. The man who exemplifies the hedonistic nature of laziness and lustrous lore of materialism that bodies the American consumer. Read his posts you can see how such indoctrination has led a decline in critical thinking and many intelligent methods in our society.

I don't think an atheist Bushie would have been much better. His problems were prereligious and even premoral. He was our very own Chris Chan and, like with the actual Chris Chan, at some point enough gawking was enough and the time to pull the plug came.

Recent developments suggest any modern Chris Chan comparisons are a huge insult to Bushie.

Sure. I'm comparing him to Classic Chris before the complete iatrogenic break from reality set in.
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Nathan
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2022, 03:16:39 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2022, 04:34:32 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

With the premise of childhood innocence, that kind of magical thinking which persists in the membrane  will help develop a sense of wonder and awe to the universe, which is great for emotional development in the child life. For the negative side effect, well there are adults who just can't give up some of their childhood nostalgia when tasking the hard cold facts of the world around them. When you start basking in immaturity in more serious ways that is detrimental to those around you, who will start questioning the person social development.

With the churches, you can give credit for many having illustrious buildings that showcases some of the beautiful architecture on the planet Earth, all build by great artists as Leonardo Di Vinci.  My beef with the churches comes to viewing the whole religion industry as just a giant con that has outlasted it's usefulness in a world which is driven by science and technology. With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings? Anything a church provides  you can do more for a secular reason. Besides my own disconcerting bafflement on the nature of religion, churches have become a one way escape profit machine that has managed to escape not paying taxes. Under a state and church separation the clergy men should play their fair share for all the money going to their industry. Going against the concept of churches is not an argument against positivism but a reaction against the nature of the role of religion in the modern technological advanced world.
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2022, 04:37:52 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

"Come forward to childhood, and do not despise it because it is small and it is little" is a line of note in the text that I consider most sacred, and a sentiment that I find very beautiful and an apt description of the experience of faith on several levels, so my response to the premise of this thread is essentially the yes chad.
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2022, 04:52:27 PM »

With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings?

It's rather odd of you to encourage being a shut-in after all the effort that you put into your indictment of Bushie.
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2022, 05:08:21 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.
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Nathan
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2022, 05:19:23 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

With the premise of childhood innocence, that kind of magical thinking which persists in the membrane  will help develop a sense of wonder and awe to the universe, which is great for emotional development in the child life. For the negative side effect, well there are adults who just can't give up some of their childhood nostalgia when tasking the hard cold facts of the world around them. When you start basking in immaturity in more serious ways that is detrimental to those around you, who will start questioning the person social development.

With the churches, you can give credit for many having illustrious buildings that showcases some of the beautiful architecture on the planet Earth, all build by great artists as Leonardo Di Vinci.  My beef with the churches comes to viewing the whole religion industry as just a giant con that has outlasted it's usefulness in a world which is driven by science and technology. With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings? Anything a church provides  you can do more for a secular reason. Besides my own disconcerting bafflement on the nature of religion, churches have become a one way escape profit machine that has managed to escape not paying taxes. Under a state and church separation the clergy men should play their fair share for all the money going to their industry. Going against the concept of churches is not an argument against positivism but a reaction against the nature of the role of religion in the modern technological advanced world.

So what does a triple-decker toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce taste like, exactly? I've often wondered.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2022, 05:41:13 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

With the premise of childhood innocence, that kind of magical thinking which persists in the membrane  will help develop a sense of wonder and awe to the universe, which is great for emotional development in the child life. For the negative side effect, well there are adults who just can't give up some of their childhood nostalgia when tasking the hard cold facts of the world around them. When you start basking in immaturity in more serious ways that is detrimental to those around you, who will start questioning the person social development.

With the churches, you can give credit for many having illustrious buildings that showcases some of the beautiful architecture on the planet Earth, all build by great artists as Leonardo Di Vinci.  My beef with the churches comes to viewing the whole religion industry as just a giant con that has outlasted it's usefulness in a world which is driven by science and technology. With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings? Anything a church provides  you can do more for a secular reason. Besides my own disconcerting bafflement on the nature of religion, churches have become a one way escape profit machine that has managed to escape not paying taxes. Under a state and church separation the clergy men should play their fair share for all the money going to their industry. Going against the concept of churches is not an argument against positivism but a reaction against the nature of the role of religion in the modern technological advanced world.

So what does a triple-decker toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce taste like, exactly? I've often wondered.

Based on my empirical evidence I can't tell you what a sandwich would taste like. Go ask the green goblin who stole the Christmas season.
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Nathan
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2022, 08:20:27 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

With the premise of childhood innocence, that kind of magical thinking which persists in the membrane  will help develop a sense of wonder and awe to the universe, which is great for emotional development in the child life. For the negative side effect, well there are adults who just can't give up some of their childhood nostalgia when tasking the hard cold facts of the world around them. When you start basking in immaturity in more serious ways that is detrimental to those around you, who will start questioning the person social development.

With the churches, you can give credit for many having illustrious buildings that showcases some of the beautiful architecture on the planet Earth, all build by great artists as Leonardo Di Vinci.  My beef with the churches comes to viewing the whole religion industry as just a giant con that has outlasted it's usefulness in a world which is driven by science and technology. With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings? Anything a church provides  you can do more for a secular reason. Besides my own disconcerting bafflement on the nature of religion, churches have become a one way escape profit machine that has managed to escape not paying taxes. Under a state and church separation the clergy men should play their fair share for all the money going to their industry. Going against the concept of churches is not an argument against positivism but a reaction against the nature of the role of religion in the modern technological advanced world.

So what does a triple-decker toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce taste like, exactly? I've often wondered.

Based on my empirical evidence I can't tell you what a sandwich would taste like.

No sandwiches either? Wow, you really are advocating an austere lifestyle!

Quote
Go ask the green goblin who stole the Christmas season.

I just did and he, as other posters can see, refused to answer.

More substantively: there's a number of directions I could go with this, but first and foremost, why do you expect somebody who "seeks to deconstruct the morality of human beings" to have anything of value to say about normative ethics? That strikes me as the province of people who seek to construct the morality of human beings, not deconstruct it.
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John Dule
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2022, 08:57:26 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2022, 09:00:19 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

You put in as much effort to make an argument against religion as those do in justifying their blind faith. Remember, if you state against any religion sentiment you will get labeled as a neckbeard.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2022, 09:06:33 PM »

Also, as to the premise of this thread, I find it hilarious how Grinchlike a lot of James's editorializing is lately. Between the suggestion that childhood innocence is a bad thing that people shouldn't have any interest in preserving or reclaiming and the signature that shows one of the most architecturally beautiful spaces I've ever seen and then mocks and belittles people for spending time there, he's doing a great job of making antitheists come across as ideologically opposed to any positive emotion except smugness.

With the premise of childhood innocence, that kind of magical thinking which persists in the membrane  will help develop a sense of wonder and awe to the universe, which is great for emotional development in the child life. For the negative side effect, well there are adults who just can't give up some of their childhood nostalgia when tasking the hard cold facts of the world around them. When you start basking in immaturity in more serious ways that is detrimental to those around you, who will start questioning the person social development.

With the churches, you can give credit for many having illustrious buildings that showcases some of the beautiful architecture on the planet Earth, all build by great artists as Leonardo Di Vinci.  My beef with the churches comes to viewing the whole religion industry as just a giant con that has outlasted it's usefulness in a world which is driven by science and technology. With the church organ why not instead just stay in your pajamas and cracked up some music on your iPhone or on your vinyl player? Why not learn ethnical issues through staying on the couch by reading a book from a prominent philosopher who seek to deconstruct the morality of human beings? Anything a church provides  you can do more for a secular reason. Besides my own disconcerting bafflement on the nature of religion, churches have become a one way escape profit machine that has managed to escape not paying taxes. Under a state and church separation the clergy men should play their fair share for all the money going to their industry. Going against the concept of churches is not an argument against positivism but a reaction against the nature of the role of religion in the modern technological advanced world.

So what does a triple-decker toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce taste like, exactly? I've often wondered.

Based on my empirical evidence I can't tell you what a sandwich would taste like.

No sandwiches either? Wow, you really are advocating an austere lifestyle!

Quote
Go ask the green goblin who stole the Christmas season.

I just did and he, as other posters can see, refused to answer.

More substantively: there's a number of directions I could go with this, but first and foremost, why do you expect somebody who "seeks to deconstruct the morality of human beings" to have anything of value to say about normative ethics? That strikes me as the province of people who seek to construct the morality of human beings, not deconstruct it.

First and foremost that is just an example of a person who wants to dig dive into a philosophical position that the reader feels is more truer to his views on human nature. The reader wants to seek out a path that is not stating rhetoric which he first heard espoused in a human ethnics class that he took while in college. Second, the book by this writer is looking to debunk the myths of philosophy that have been accepted as guidance for many years as being rubbish junk. The position of the reader is to seek questioning and making logical sense of what is truly right and what is wrong in a world driven by laws.
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2022, 09:23:02 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

You put in as much effort to make an argument against religion as those do in justifying their blind faith. Remember, if you state against any religion sentiment you will get labeled as a neckbeard.

This would hold more water if I could trust that you believe that it's possible for faith not to be blind or that yours is the peak of criticism of religion. If I wanted my beliefs challenged in an intellectually stimulating way, I'd read Xenophanes (some of whose critiques of the religious currents of his time I have incorporated into my understanding thereof in my own practice) instead of the insecure ramblings of precocious adolescents with a "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS Annoying Feminist" understanding of Serious Discourse and a South Park understanding of American religion.
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2022, 09:28:00 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

I think that says more about you than it does about religion, honestly.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2022, 09:31:31 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

You put in as much effort to make an argument against religion as those do in justifying their blind faith. Remember, if you state against any religion sentiment you will get labeled as a neckbeard.

This would hold more water if I could trust that you believe that it's possible for faith not to be blind or that yours is the peak of criticism of religion. If I wanted my beliefs challenged in an intellectually stimulating way, I'd read Xenophanes (some of whose critiques of the religious currents of his time I have incorporated into my understanding thereof in my own practice) instead of the insecure ramblings of precocious adolescents with a "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS Annoying Feminist" understanding of Serious Discourse and a South Park understanding of American religion.

Trust me, I have spent many hours reading some of the brights making credible criticism of the way organized religion has damaged the world. Bertrand Russell and Christopher Hitchens sent me a path to nonbeliever through intellectually stimulating work that have become influential in the tide against faith. Nietzsche, Sigmond Freud, Thomas Paine, Robert S. Ingersoll, many more philosophers who have shaped my perception of the universe.

John Dule is much more than a neckbeard ideologue, he possesses such wit and comic timing that makes him one of our indelible members going today.

 
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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2022, 09:38:41 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

You put in as much effort to make an argument against religion as those do in justifying their blind faith. Remember, if you state against any religion sentiment you will get labeled as a neckbeard.

This would hold more water if I could trust that you believe that it's possible for faith not to be blind or that yours is the peak of criticism of religion. If I wanted my beliefs challenged in an intellectually stimulating way, I'd read Xenophanes (some of whose critiques of the religious currents of his time I have incorporated into my understanding thereof in my own practice) instead of the insecure ramblings of precocious adolescents with a "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS Annoying Feminist" understanding of Serious Discourse and a South Park understanding of American religion.

Trust me, I have spent many hours reading some of the brights making credible criticism of the way organized religion has damaged the world. Bertrand Russell and Christopher Hitchens sent me a path to nonbeliever through intellectually stimulating work that have become influential in the tide against faith. Nietzsche, Sigmond Freud, Thomas Paine, Robert S. Ingersoll, many more philosophers who have shaped my perception of the universe. John Dule is much more than a neckbeard ideologue, he possesses such wit and comic timing that makes him one of our indelible members going today.

A key subtlety that you fail to recognize is that one can be critical of organized religion without having this reflexive hostility to personal faith. You insist that they're the same thing out of an ideological conviction that all faith is a damaging force. Humans are not entirely rational beings, and trying to force ourselves to be entirely rational is a denial of our nature that results in the great alienation that we so often see in the post-religious era.

I, too, deplore the great injustices wrought by organized religion, including those forms of it that have inspired my own practice, but I can recognize that these evils are not inherent to the idea of holding metaphysical beliefs that aren't explicitly determined by the scientific standard of the day. The irony is that my beliefs are probably far more flexible than your insistence on the orthodoxy of a particular group of pseudointellectuals from several decades ago and an extremely narrow interpretation of capital-S "Science" as a monolith that suits your preconceptions.
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James Monroe
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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2022, 09:57:04 PM »

I extend my belated apologies to John Dule, his pseudo-neckbeard atheism now looks like a scholarly analysis by one of the most sagacious philosophers of religion by comparison with the recent inane adolescent edgelord ramblings of James Monroe.

I tend to calibrate the intellectual quality of my responses to fit the topic at hand, so I rarely feel the need to put in much effort on religious subjects.

You put in as much effort to make an argument against religion as those do in justifying their blind faith. Remember, if you state against any religion sentiment you will get labeled as a neckbeard.

This would hold more water if I could trust that you believe that it's possible for faith not to be blind or that yours is the peak of criticism of religion. If I wanted my beliefs challenged in an intellectually stimulating way, I'd read Xenophanes (some of whose critiques of the religious currents of his time I have incorporated into my understanding thereof in my own practice) instead of the insecure ramblings of precocious adolescents with a "Jordan Peterson DESTROYS Annoying Feminist" understanding of Serious Discourse and a South Park understanding of American religion.

Trust me, I have spent many hours reading some of the brights making credible criticism of the way organized religion has damaged the world. Bertrand Russell and Christopher Hitchens sent me a path to nonbeliever through intellectually stimulating work that have become influential in the tide against faith. Nietzsche, Sigmond Freud, Thomas Paine, Robert S. Ingersoll, many more philosophers who have shaped my perception of the universe. John Dule is much more than a neckbeard ideologue, he possesses such wit and comic timing that makes him one of our indelible members going today.

A key subtlety that you fail to recognize is that one can be critical of organized religion without having this reflexive hostility to personal faith. You insist that they're the same thing out of an ideological conviction that all faith is a damaging force. Humans are not entirely rational beings, and trying to force ourselves to be entirely rational is a denial of our nature that results in the great alienation that we so often see in the post-religious era.

I, too, deplore the great injustices wrought by organized religion, including those forms of it that have inspired my own practice, but I can recognize that these evils are not inherent to the idea of holding metaphysical beliefs that aren't explicitly determined by the scientific standard of the day. The irony is that my beliefs are probably far more flexible than your insistence on the orthodoxy of a particular group of pseudointellectuals from several decades ago and an extremely narrow interpretation of capital-S "Science" as a monolith that suits your preconceptions.

Our perception of alienation in the modern Western world is not through the abandonment of religious rituals for secular values but our functioning out of any normal way of social gatherings. Homo sapiens are social animals, religion was one of the tools for many in the primitive days to understand human nature and what causes natural causes. Churches were the source of communities for years around the world, including the non faithful. Still, by our nature I still diverge on humans as not being considerably rational, as that would not explain all the development in the species history that shows a clear rational side that build us as the dominant animals of the Planet Earth.

All of the intellectuals I mention in my above post have been some of the greatest thinkers of the last couple of centuries, not pseudo intellectuals  but creative minds that have help change the human perspective. Freud and Nietzche were some of the pioneering minds who seek out to throw the conventional thinking away from a new path which seeks to find answers to humanity burden without the guidance of religion. 
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John Dule
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2022, 12:46:34 AM »

It's strange-- I'm often told by Atlas Christians that I have a "blind spot" when it comes to religion, or that I haven't "thought deeply" about their beliefs, yet every time I discuss the subject with them they always give me the same five arguments. Perhaps some vital piece of information continues to elude me, thought I feel that if that were the case it would have revealed itself by now.
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