Logistical questions about a bodily general resurrection of all the dead

[Blue3]

Let’s say everyone is bodily, physically resurrected together at once. As many religions and denominations of the Abrahamic faiths say.

The rule is that everybody is resurrected.


* Let’s say a man had near-total amnesia in his thirties/forties, and afterwards lived his “new” life in a totally different way with that fresh start, though slightly mentally handicapped. Essentially two people. Different loves of their lives, different thinking process, different hobbies, different core figures (say most of his close family died before the amnesia happened). Who is resurrected? Both? If one person is resurrected with the memories of both lives, that’s essentially a whole new person, it would be like resurrected two identical twin brothers in one body with both memories combined, someone who is new and neither. Are two separate individuals resurrected? And if they count as different people, it’s not just total amnesia that can change a person. There’s even natural forgetting, and natural change in personality. Will a version of us from each waking cycle of our lives be resurrected at once in its own body? It can be said our mind even changes moment to moment. Is each version of us from each moment of our lives resurrected in a separate body? If we say not, and if we say the person with total amnesia and different lives is resurrected as one new person with a combined memory of both, what’s to say we won’t all be resurrected as one single person with a combined memory of every person who ever lived?


* Also, if a soul enters shortly after conception, about half of all zygotes die before someone realizes they were ever possibly pregnant. Where will all the newly resurrected zygotes go? Float around in spirit world as they slowly grow? Attach the body of their natural mother, who is then pregnant with potentially dozens at once? What if the zygote was created completely artificially and never had a natural mother? Same for all fetuses that never make it to term. Will they all be resurrected in full adult bodies, with an undeveloped mind and no memories beyond seconds to a few weeks of existing as a clump of cells? If it goes to at way, does this mean all who die before adulthood, from babies to 10 year olds of those just once second before being considered physical adults (whatever that means) be aged?


* In all the religious beliefs about resurrection, it’s almost always clarified it will still be on Earth. One planet. Even setting aside the resurrection of  all living things (including the non-hominid), or the resurrection of each of us from every day or every moment of our lives, how will we all fit on Earth?


* If non-humans like dogs and cats are resurrected, what about other animals? What about trees and grass, or will the Earth with resurrected people have no trees or grass? If it had plants, what about other nonthinking organisms, like parasites and mosquitoes and the Bacteria and viruses of plagues? If it does have them, are they given hosts so they can be happy in paradise? Or is their simple natural radically transformed, so they are now happy without being a plague or parasite on others? If they’re so fundamentally transformed and brainwashed, what’s to say humans don’t be similarly radically transformed and brainwashed to be happy?


* Similar to the first, let’s say in the future people can alter their body and mind in radical fundamental ones. Some people transform themselves totally into animals, or into trees. Their minds are completely changes, or gone. Similar to the amnesia example. Do they then have different souls? Or are their separate lives combined into one new being with a combined memory, who’s really a new being?




Are there logical inconsistencies between our answers to all these different questions? What are the underlying principles?


Do you have any other questions about the logistics of a bodily physical general resurrection of the dead and how it would would?

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I think Paul responds to some of these criticisms of bodily resurrection in 1 Corinthians. IIRC his idea is that Christians will be raised in a kind of supermaterial body different to the ordinary physical body in the ground.

[Blue3]

I think Paul responds to some of these criticisms of bodily resurrection in 1 Corinthians. IIRC his idea is that Christians will be raised in a kind of supermaterial body different to the ordinary physical body in the ground.

Yes but that’s not the concerns with Memory, Time, and the Nature of Consciousness and the Nature of Individuality I’m describing here. And not about the simple issue of space, or how fundamentally it’s nature is changed if it can be said it was actually resurrection.

[Blue3]

To further add to what I’m trying to provoke discussion on, here’s emerging information on how we are actually composed of several brains working together, and the nature of time:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-purpose/202201/the-brain-prediction-machine-the-key-consciousness?amp

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The Rapture like reincarnation is a theory, it was a theory based off the Pyramids being built that the Pharoahs we're actual Gods and aliens can magically cause us to go to Heaven in the Rapture, ancient aliens we know don't exist and there hasn't been any Rapture yet because Jesus could of been a mortal man because they found Ossurary boxes of his brother James and replicas of Christ Ossurary Box, they had no last names and Jesus or James son of Joseph were written on Boxes. After a yr, the Jews buried their deceased bones in an Ossurary Box

Reincarnated is a theory, God is like the Universe or ancient aliens that manifest things thru cause and effect

But, until there is a rapture no proof of God but scientist said our Armageddon is a comet destroying Earth

But, this doesn't mean stop praying to our Prophets the High Priests whom are close to God, Buddhists believe when you pray, and repent you get good causes for repentance and negative effects from sin

[Blue3]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I had hoped this would spark more discussion.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     One will be resurrected into a state of spiritual awareness, contrary to the state of life in the world today. We are not told what state one's body will be in when one is resurrected in terms of point in one's life, but the point is that you will no longer be subject to the infirmities of your life proceeding from the Fall, including things like amnesia.

     Those who died as zygotes or fetuses will also have an awareness of spiritual reality, though I am unclear of how much awareness they will have of other things in the world. It should be understood that in a sense it could be more blessed to not know of the world than it is to know of it; there exists a tradition among the Armenians that when Jesus ascended to Heaven that the Seraphim and Cherubim were surprised to behold Him because they never realized that He had Incarnated here on Earth.

     The resurrection would not include non-human animals as they do not have immortal souls (or spirits, in the Eastern Christian parlance). They are not moral actors and cannot be judged for their actions.

     Along those lines, it'd be pretty easy to fit everyone on the face of the Earth; the Earth's land area is about 150 trillion square meters. You could easily fit at least one person per square meter and there haven't been 150 trillion people in the history of the world. As we will be resurrected with incorruptible flesh, putting people in normally inhospitable places like Greenland or the Sahara would be fine.

     If someone hypothetically transformed themselves into an animal or a tree, they would necessarily retain a human soul because animal and tree souls are ontologically different and human beings don't have the ability to create souls.

     Hope that helped spark a conversation!

[°Leprechaun]

     One will be resurrected into a state of spiritual awareness, contrary to the state of life in the world today. We are not told what state one's body will be in when one is resurrected in terms of point in one's life, but the point is that you will no longer be subject to the infirmities of your life proceeding from the Fall, including things like amnesia.

     Those who died as zygotes or fetuses will also have an awareness of spiritual reality, though I am unclear of how much awareness they will have of other things in the world. It should be understood that in a sense it could be more blessed to not know of the world than it is to know of it; there exists a tradition among the Armenians that when Jesus ascended to Heaven that the Seraphim and Cherubim were surprised to behold Him because they never realized that He had Incarnated here on Earth.

     The resurrection would not include non-human animals as they do not have immortal souls (or spirits, in the Eastern Christian parlance). They are not moral actors and cannot be judged for their actions.

     Along those lines, it'd be pretty easy to fit everyone on the face of the Earth; the Earth's land area is about 150 trillion square meters. You could easily fit at least one person per square meter and there haven't been 150 trillion people in the history of the world. As we will be resurrected with incorruptible flesh, putting people in normally inhospitable places like Greenland or the Sahara would be fine.

     If someone hypothetically transformed themselves into an animal or a tree, they would necessarily retain a human soul because animal and tree souls are ontologically different and human beings don't have the ability to create souls.

     Hope that helped spark a conversation!

How do come up with all these theories?
As for the title of this thread..
Anyway, my question is what if someone is cremated or dies in outer space..etc?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     One will be resurrected into a state of spiritual awareness, contrary to the state of life in the world today. We are not told what state one's body will be in when one is resurrected in terms of point in one's life, but the point is that you will no longer be subject to the infirmities of your life proceeding from the Fall, including things like amnesia.

     Those who died as zygotes or fetuses will also have an awareness of spiritual reality, though I am unclear of how much awareness they will have of other things in the world. It should be understood that in a sense it could be more blessed to not know of the world than it is to know of it; there exists a tradition among the Armenians that when Jesus ascended to Heaven that the Seraphim and Cherubim were surprised to behold Him because they never realized that He had Incarnated here on Earth.

     The resurrection would not include non-human animals as they do not have immortal souls (or spirits, in the Eastern Christian parlance). They are not moral actors and cannot be judged for their actions.

     Along those lines, it'd be pretty easy to fit everyone on the face of the Earth; the Earth's land area is about 150 trillion square meters. You could easily fit at least one person per square meter and there haven't been 150 trillion people in the history of the world. As we will be resurrected with incorruptible flesh, putting people in normally inhospitable places like Greenland or the Sahara would be fine.

     If someone hypothetically transformed themselves into an animal or a tree, they would necessarily retain a human soul because animal and tree souls are ontologically different and human beings don't have the ability to create souls.

     Hope that helped spark a conversation!

How do come up with all these theories?
As for the title of this thread..
Anyway, my question is what if someone is cremated or dies in outer space..etc?

     These are ideas based in Orthodox Christian patristic tradition. Now if I just got this all from rambling off the cuff, that would be something.

[°Leprechaun]

     One will be resurrected into a state of spiritual awareness, contrary to the state of life in the world today. We are not told what state one's body will be in when one is resurrected in terms of point in one's life, but the point is that you will no longer be subject to the infirmities of your life proceeding from the Fall, including things like amnesia.

     Those who died as zygotes or fetuses will also have an awareness of spiritual reality, though I am unclear of how much awareness they will have of other things in the world. It should be understood that in a sense it could be more blessed to not know of the world than it is to know of it; there exists a tradition among the Armenians that when Jesus ascended to Heaven that the Seraphim and Cherubim were surprised to behold Him because they never realized that He had Incarnated here on Earth.

     The resurrection would not include non-human animals as they do not have immortal souls (or spirits, in the Eastern Christian parlance). They are not moral actors and cannot be judged for their actions.

     Along those lines, it'd be pretty easy to fit everyone on the face of the Earth; the Earth's land area is about 150 trillion square meters. You could easily fit at least one person per square meter and there haven't been 150 trillion people in the history of the world. As we will be resurrected with incorruptible flesh, putting people in normally inhospitable places like Greenland or the Sahara would be fine.

     If someone hypothetically transformed themselves into an animal or a tree, they would necessarily retain a human soul because animal and tree souls are ontologically different and human beings don't have the ability to create souls.

     Hope that helped spark a conversation!

How do come up with all these theories?
As for the title of this thread..
Anyway, my question is what if someone is cremated or dies in outer space..etc?

     These are ideas based in Orthodox Christian patristic tradition. Now if I just got this all from rambling off the cuff, that would be something.

I guess that shouldn't surprise me, but certainly none of that is based on any empirical evidence.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     One will be resurrected into a state of spiritual awareness, contrary to the state of life in the world today. We are not told what state one's body will be in when one is resurrected in terms of point in one's life, but the point is that you will no longer be subject to the infirmities of your life proceeding from the Fall, including things like amnesia.

     Those who died as zygotes or fetuses will also have an awareness of spiritual reality, though I am unclear of how much awareness they will have of other things in the world. It should be understood that in a sense it could be more blessed to not know of the world than it is to know of it; there exists a tradition among the Armenians that when Jesus ascended to Heaven that the Seraphim and Cherubim were surprised to behold Him because they never realized that He had Incarnated here on Earth.

     The resurrection would not include non-human animals as they do not have immortal souls (or spirits, in the Eastern Christian parlance). They are not moral actors and cannot be judged for their actions.

     Along those lines, it'd be pretty easy to fit everyone on the face of the Earth; the Earth's land area is about 150 trillion square meters. You could easily fit at least one person per square meter and there haven't been 150 trillion people in the history of the world. As we will be resurrected with incorruptible flesh, putting people in normally inhospitable places like Greenland or the Sahara would be fine.

     If someone hypothetically transformed themselves into an animal or a tree, they would necessarily retain a human soul because animal and tree souls are ontologically different and human beings don't have the ability to create souls.

     Hope that helped spark a conversation!

How do come up with all these theories?
As for the title of this thread..
Anyway, my question is what if someone is cremated or dies in outer space..etc?

     These are ideas based in Orthodox Christian patristic tradition. Now if I just got this all from rambling off the cuff, that would be something.

I guess that shouldn't surprise me, but certainly none of that is based on any empirical evidence.

     I don't see how one could base ideas about a future general resurrection on empirical evidence. Certainly we do not have the ability to produce or locate and scientifically study such a phenomenon, even in a relatively limited fashion.

[Skill and Chance]

Some of these questions do require explicitly supernatural explanations, but your 3rd one would not.  The total number of anatomically modern humans who have ever lived is estimated to be ~15X the current human population.  Supporting that population size on Earth would not require anything violating the laws of physics as we know them.  Cities would just be much bigger.  FWIW the Christian afterlife is described in explicitly urbanized terms.   

[Benjamin Frank]

George Carlin had a comedy sketch about stuff like this:

[afleitch]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I had hoped this would spark more discussion.

A literal bodily resurrection of the dead would require the 'reassembly' of an uncountable number of scattered atoms from organic material and water. Some of which may reside in living matter including humans. All smashing into each other.

If the bodily resurrection involves the assemblage of other matter, then it's a facsimile. Not a resurrection.

[Skill and Chance]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I had hoped this would spark more discussion.

A literal bodily resurrection of the dead would require the 'reassembly' of an uncountable number of scattered atoms from organic material and water. Some of which may reside in living matter including humans. All smashing into each other.

If the bodily resurrection involves the assemblage of other matter, then it's a facsimile. Not a resurrection.

Your body cycles through a unique set of molecules within a year and you remain continuously alive.

[afleitch]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I had hoped this would spark more discussion.

A literal bodily resurrection of the dead would require the 'reassembly' of an uncountable number of scattered atoms from organic material and water. Some of which may reside in living matter including humans. All smashing into each other.

If the bodily resurrection involves the assemblage of other matter, then it's a facsimile. Not a resurrection.

Your body cycles through a unique set of molecules within a year and you remain continuously alive.

Neurons, vital to what it means to be you are not replaced as there is no mitosis.

That aside, if it's a bodily resurrection, then you have to be reassembled. Either from what you left behind or from reconstituting other molecules to make a 'new' you, that philosophically is the 'old you' from existing matter. All at once.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The resurrection of the dead happens within the new creation, a restitution of all things which was inaugurated by life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
-Colossians 1

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1 Cor 13:12). What we will understand better will include our own selves, integrating the different parts of our awareness and, I believe,  our different selves across time.   I see no reason to assume there won't be further development in each of us, but without losing who we were, at least insofar as it has been redeemed in Christ.

I find Polkinghorne's thoughts on resurrection helpful. The realities of entropy mean there must be discontinuity between the old creation and the new, between who we are now and our resurrected selves, but God will remember and bring again into being the pattern of we are, which is our embodied soul.

[Associate Justice PiT]

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? I had hoped this would spark more discussion.

A literal bodily resurrection of the dead would require the 'reassembly' of an uncountable number of scattered atoms from organic material and water. Some of which may reside in living matter including humans. All smashing into each other.

If the bodily resurrection involves the assemblage of other matter, then it's a facsimile. Not a resurrection.

Your body cycles through a unique set of molecules within a year and you remain continuously alive.

Neurons, vital to what it means to be you are not replaced as there is no mitosis.

That aside, if it's a bodily resurrection, then you have to be reassembled. Either from what you left behind or from reconstituting other molecules to make a 'new' you, that philosophically is the 'old you' from existing matter. All at once.

     Approaching the question from a materialistic standpoint, I wonder if it would be simpler to assemble you as a baby and run a computer program to simulate your life up until adulthood based on the choices you faced and made.