Opinion of Freedom from Religion Foundation? (user search)
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  Opinion of Freedom from Religion Foundation? (search mode)
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Question: Opinion of Freedom from Religion Foundation?
#1
Freedom organization(D)
 
#2
Horrible organization(D)
 
#3
Freedom organization(R)
 
#4
Horrible organization(R)
 
#5
Freedom organization(I)
 
#6
Horrible organization(I)
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 29

Author Topic: Opinion of Freedom from Religion Foundation?  (Read 606 times)
Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
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« on: December 20, 2021, 05:56:19 PM »

This seem like a wonderful group of people who have been battling against the Trump right in our urgent times.

Nothing listed in your Wikipedia quote occurred during the Trump administration.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,426


« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2021, 03:58:05 AM »
« Edited: December 23, 2021, 12:03:12 PM by Butlerian Jihad »

I've been a critic of what our own Al has called the "what appears to be extremely conservative is in fact not, and to say that it is, is a hate crime" Western approach to Islam--indeed, my current display name is in part a reference to that sorry phenomenon. But where the Dawkinsian "Muslimophile" "oh, I'm just saving the poor harem girls from themselves! Smiley" approach falters is in its refusal to recognize that while someone's religious beliefs might, technically, be "chosen", that doesn't actually make bigotry against very conservative religions as much of a non-issue as "bigotry" against, say, Twitter tankies or people who like Disney-era Star Wars. Religion, in most of the world, is connected to other facets of personal and group identity in ways that make religious prejudice much more similar to racial or nationality-based prejudice than to prejudice against other types of chosen beliefs or opinions. To deny that is to be pigheaded, ideologically blinkered, and, dare I say it...irrational.
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Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,426


« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2021, 03:48:57 PM »
« Edited: December 23, 2021, 03:53:00 PM by Butlerian Jihad »

I think the difference is contextual. 'Discrimination' against Christianity in the US (on the whole) for example is similar to (and often coterminous with) say, racial discrimination against whites. In that it is 'a thing' but it's also not a substantive thing and we should be equally wary of those who push that narrative. What Team USA Christianity generally wants is to be framed as persecuted, while disproportionately protected by the first amendment, in order to freely discriminate against others or to place 'first' in the pantheon of American religion. It shouldn't be better armed at this, or have legislators ears more than any other group. Now of course the context is entirely different with say historically black churches, who haven't had that access, or insular 'white' faith groups like the Amish (though without outsiders acting as 'saviours' for them) or more 'recent' established nationwide faith groups such as Islam.

This is similar to why in that other thread I agree with the idea that the "greatest champion of secularism" right now is probably someone in the Arab world. Reducing the influence of a hegemonic or socially dominant religion is way more impressive of an achievement than imposing additional social and legal disabilities on religious minorities.

My previous post was meant primarily to comment on the Fortuyn-Dawkins-Talk Atlas Elections Blogger James Monroe treatment of Islam in the West, even though I was laying out more general principles. I think Christianity in the West, and Islam in the Middle East and North Africa, can handle a little criticism!
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