Most Trump Supporters are Lying to Pollsters About Believing in the 'Stolen Election' Conspiracy

[Frodo]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

When people think the system is rigged against them, they are likelier to vote. Sad fact, but so is life.

[Frodo]

When people think the system is rigged against them, they are likelier to vote. Sad fact, but so is life.

I don't believe they think the system is rigged against them, though they would certainly like everyone else to think that.  They know perfectly well they have all the privileges (entrenched by centuries of practice and statute) in this country thanks in large part to their skin color, and they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.  They are motivated to keep the system rigged for them.  And that, I imagine, is something worth fighting for, especially when they are staring at future generations of Americans who look nothing like them (which might explain their complete lack of empathy for victims of school shootings).  If the democratic process as they have known it is going to result eventually in a loss of their dominance, well, it might be worth looking for alternatives.  What is more important, after all?  A constitutional democracy, or a system that keeps them top dogs over everyone else as they have long been accustomed?  Something has to give.  

[Schiff for Senate]

When people think the system is rigged against them, they are likelier to vote. Sad fact, but so is life.

I don't believe they think the system is rigged against them, though they would certainly like everyone else to think that.  They know perfectly well they have all the privileges (entrenched by centuries of practice and statute) in this country thanks in large part to their skin color, and they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.  They are motivated to keep the system rigged for them.  And that, I imagine, is something worth fighting for, especially when they are staring at future generations of Americans who look nothing like them.  If the democratic process as they have known it is going to result eventually in a loss of their dominance, well, it might be worth looking for alternatives.  What is more important, after all?  A constitutional democracy, or a system that keeps them top dogs over everyone else as they have long been accustomed?  Something has to give.  

I wouldn't put anything past them or assume that they 'know' anything 'perfectly well.'

[Frodo]

When people think the system is rigged against them, they are likelier to vote. Sad fact, but so is life.

I don't believe they think the system is rigged against them, though they would certainly like everyone else to think that.  They know perfectly well they have all the privileges (entrenched by centuries of practice and statute) in this country thanks in large part to their skin color, and they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.  They are motivated to keep the system rigged for them.  And that, I imagine, is something worth fighting for, especially when they are staring at future generations of Americans who look nothing like them.  If the democratic process as they have known it is going to result eventually in a loss of their dominance, well, it might be worth looking for alternatives.  What is more important, after all?  A constitutional democracy, or a system that keeps them top dogs over everyone else as they have long been accustomed?  Something has to give.  

I wouldn't put anything past them or assume that they 'know' anything 'perfectly well.'

I think it is perfectly logical and reasonable for them to assume, for instance, that the police, military, and intelligence services would be on 'their side' when they are needed most, based on past practice and the fact that many of them have served in those branches.  They don't look upon them as 'the enemy' or as an 'occupying army' the way minorities generally do (with good reason), but as brothers-in-arms.  As comrades.  

[Schiff for Senate]

When people think the system is rigged against them, they are likelier to vote. Sad fact, but so is life.

I don't believe they think the system is rigged against them, though they would certainly like everyone else to think that.  They know perfectly well they have all the privileges (entrenched by centuries of practice and statute) in this country thanks in large part to their skin color, and they would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.  They are motivated to keep the system rigged for them.  And that, I imagine, is something worth fighting for, especially when they are staring at future generations of Americans who look nothing like them.  If the democratic process as they have known it is going to result eventually in a loss of their dominance, well, it might be worth looking for alternatives.  What is more important, after all?  A constitutional democracy, or a system that keeps them top dogs over everyone else as they have long been accustomed?  Something has to give.  

I wouldn't put anything past them or assume that they 'know' anything 'perfectly well.'

I think it is perfectly logical and reasonable for them to assume, for instance, that the police, military, and intelligence services would be on 'their side' when they are needed most, based on past practice and the fact that many of them have served in those branches.  They don't look upon them as 'the enemy' or as an 'occupying army' the way minorities generally do (with good reason), but as brothers-in-arms.  As comrades.  

'Trump supporters' and 'perfectly logical and reasonable' do not compute.
They should not be used in the same sentence unless some negative word (as in, 'not' or 'aren't') is used as well.

[Jamison5]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

[S019]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

What proof is there that it was stolen?

[Senator Incitatus]

Correct and good. Always lie to pollsters.

[beaver2.0]

It seems to me that even if you think it's stolen or that there might be a chance of it being stolen it's still worth your time to vote just in case you are wrong or so that there are more legitimate votes that might make it harder to steal.

[SWE]

 

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end? 

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

What proof is there that it was stolen?

The idea that the other party could win an election hurts his feelings and so must be impossible

[Ferguson97]

You're giving them too much credit. They're not smart enough to notice the contradiction, and their basic premise is "if the Democrats win it was stolen, if they lose it was legit".

[Bootes Void]

The most obvious answer is that they aren't sincere in their beliefs, it's not that different from when democrats thought that Russian interference changed the vote totals(though it wasn't as common) back in 2016

[E-Dawg 🇺🇦🇦🇲]

I really hope this is true.

[Jamison5]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

What proof is there that it was stolen?

The idea that the other party could win an election hurts his feelings and so must be impossible

That is an incredibly dishonest statement. I have no real feelings about it at all. It is what it is. Of course it is possible for the other side to win. Obama and Bill Clinton did it twice. I am simply going by the evidence. Poll observers were removed from where they were supposed to be, showing that the people that removed them were hiding something. The names of tens of thousands of voters have been matched to names on the voter file as being dead or having moved, thus being ineligible, and they were disproportionately in blue cities. Trump won almost all of the bellwether counties, with the only exceptions being Clallam, WA, Blaine, MT, and of course Kent, DE. In PA and GA, ballots arrived after Election Day and were counted, which should never happen. In Wisconsin, the rejection rate was 0.2% instead of the usual 2%, showing that they did not do signature verification. The Arizona audit found that there were at least 57,000 illegal ballots cast in Maricopa Country. Furthermore, there is a long history of Democrats stealing close elections, in both the primary and the general, such as the 1948 Senate primary in Texas, the 1960 Presidential election, the 2020 Iowa Caucuses (stolen from Bernie), and Wisconsin was probably stolen from George W. Bush twice considering how Milwaukee had disproportionately high turnout compared to similar areas around the country. Also, Gore tried to steal Florida from Bush but failed. Broward County, FL always had large amounts of ballot arriving late, though not in 2020 since Brenda Snipes was removed. It's not about feelings, I just tell it like it is. You should be ashamed of yourself for slandering me here.

[Jamison5]

It seems to me that even if you think it's stolen or that there might be a chance of it being stolen it's still worth your time to vote just in case you are wrong or so that there are more legitimate votes that might make it harder to steal.

I will say you have better insight and more civility than your fellow Atlas users. The second thing you said here is exactly right. Just win bigger.

[P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

What proof is there that it was stolen?

The idea that the other party could win an election hurts his feelings and so must be impossible

That is an incredibly dishonest statement. I have no real feelings about it at all. It is what it is. Of course it is possible for the other side to win. Obama and Bill Clinton did it twice. I am simply going by the evidence. Poll observers were removed from where they were supposed to be, showing that the people that removed them were hiding something. The names of tens of thousands of voters have been matched to names on the voter file as being dead or having moved, thus being ineligible, and they were disproportionately in blue cities. Trump won almost all of the bellwether counties, with the only exceptions being Clallam, WA, Blaine, MT, and of course Kent, DE. In PA and GA, ballots arrived after Election Day and were counted, which should never happen. In Wisconsin, the rejection rate was 0.2% instead of the usual 2%, showing that they did not do signature verification. The Arizona audit found that there were at least 57,000 illegal ballots cast in Maricopa Country. Furthermore, there is a long history of Democrats stealing close elections, in both the primary and the general, such as the 1948 Senate primary in Texas, the 1960 Presidential election, the 2020 Iowa Caucuses (stolen from Bernie), and Wisconsin was probably stolen from George W. Bush twice considering how Milwaukee had disproportionately high turnout compared to similar areas around the country. Also, Gore tried to steal Florida from Bush but failed. Broward County, FL always had large amounts of ballot arriving late, though not in 2020 since Brenda Snipes was removed. It's not about feelings, I just tell it like it is. You should be ashamed of yourself for slandering me here.

Don't worry buddy I'm sorry you feel this way, do you want a hot choccy to make it better? Don’t have to be sad

[RINO Tom]

^ Just refute his claims if they’re so clearly ridiculous, dude…?

[Del Tachi]

As has been said, vote rigging only makes a difference at the margin so there is nothing inconsistent or illogical about perceptions of voter fraud making certain people more likely to vote.  It is similar to the empirical observation that perceived efforts to suppress minority voters actually increase voter enthusiasm among these groups.

Secondly, issue polling has always been fundamentally broken because people mostly put their identity first and then just backfill their issue opinions to match.  Very few people have well-articulated, ideologically-developed issue positions as evidenced by how you can see wild swings in opinion based only on how a question is asked.  Republicans increasingly respond the election was stolen only because it has become "the Republican thing to believe", as reinforced by media narratives on both sides.      

[Izzyeviel]

As has been said, vote rigging only makes a difference at the margin so there is nothing inconsistent or illogical about perceptions of voter fraud making certain people more likely to vote.  It is similar to the empirical observation that perceived efforts to suppress minority voters actually increase voter enthusiasm among these groups.

Secondly, issue polling has always been fundamentally broken because people mostly put their identity first and then just backfill their issue opinions to match.  Very few people do not have well-articulated, ideologically-developed issue positions as evidenced by how you can see wild swings in opinion based only on how a question is asked.  Republicans increasingly respond the election was stolen only because it has become "the Republican thing to believe", as reinforced by media narratives on both sides.     

You should hang your head in shame for believing such nonsense.

The stuff about Wisconsin for example is easily debunked by using a little brain power. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/12/fact-check-wisconsins-absentee-ballot-rejection-rate-expected/6736935002/

And in places like Arizona and georgia et al, we're expected to believe that Republicans in charge of running elections fixed it so...the other side could win.

And you can check google for yourself, plenty of people have been caught illegally voting for Trump.
At what point does the penny drop?

[BabyAlligator]

Voter fraud can only go so far. You might be able to throw away or add a certain amount or ballots to rig the elections in competitive races but it's limited.

[MarkD]

I wonder how many of the Trump voters would be willing to lie to pollsters that they believe Trump was right to claim that he won "every single state" in the country?

January 2, 2021: "As you know, every single state. We won every state; we won every statehouse in the country. ... But we won every single statehouse." (Trump speaking to Brad Raffensperger on the phone, as he tried to pressure Brad to change the official election results.)
January 4, 2021: "..... we .... won every single state, ..... We win every state, and they're going to have this guy be president?" (Trump speaking at campaign rally in Dalton, Georgia, campaigning for Perdue and Loeffler.)

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

This is the key. It's perfectly in line with everything about modern Republicanism: absolute ignorant selfishness.

Republicans are all id. They want unlimited self-gratification, and complete avoidance of physical or metal pain or even consequences of any sort. They're incapable of empathy. I suspect that is what makes them all march in lockstep so well, when Democrats struggle and argue even about things we all generally agree on; Republicans get along with other Republicans not because they identify them as other independent beings, but as copies of their own mental state. They all believe the same things, and need to believe that they all believe the same things. And if they were different, they'd lose their identity - and because they don't have or understand empathy, or regard anyone different from themselves as people if they get lost and aren't part of the head anymore, well, that makes the world a very scary place. (And it probably explains the Qanon and Trump-cults - they believe in absolutely insanity because they're scared of what will happen if they don't believe. They'd have to think for themselves, which they find terrifying, even in tiny doses.) Not that a modern Republicans would ever understand, much less admit, any of this - lack of self-awareness is part of the package, practically a requirement. 

It all adds up to a rather effective negative feedback cycle, that keeps Republicans acting and thinking Republican. (Or, these days, acting and thinking Trump, since he quite effectively hijacked the whole apparatus just by successfully putting himself at the center of it and letting the forces that keep Republicans Republican force everyone into alignment with him, no matter how insane he gets. Whether or not he understood that's what he was doing, I don't know.) And the same self-reinforcement is going on here.

Of course Republicans think the election was rigged - because Republicans think the election was rigged. They know it wasn't, but they can't admit it. And Republicans have gotten lots of practice at denying reality. Plus, it gives them an excuse to resolve a fundamental conflict: Republicans can do whatever they want... but sometimes Republicans lose elections. And they have to respect that, because being the "good guys" is also part of the Republican image of themselves, and only "bad guys" (like Nazis, or Communists, or what have you) stomp all over elections and act like tyrants.

But with the "rigged election" narrative, all is right with the Republican worldview. They can ignore election results (unless they're the right election results where Republicans win) and feel good about it, because the elections were "rigged" or "fake" or whatever.

And then in another decade or less, they'll be using the same general process to justify mass murders and death camps. Because in the end, that's what evil is: not seeing other people as people.

The big question is, how do the rest of us stop it? Adopting their tactics doesn't work - it just turns us into a mirror image of them, and evil still wins. If we don't stop it sooner, then we end up needing to stop it later, which likely means war (judging from past experience). I wish I had a good and elegant answer. The best I can come up with seems to be the one the Democratic Party as a whole has come up with: try to keep things rolling, minimize the harm Republicans do as much as possible, and hope we can limit their ability for abuse until they destroy themselves (because that's what evil eventually does) without taking the rest of us with them. And that's not a very good answer, but I certainly don't have a better one.

[Stranger in a strange land]

The most obvious answer is that they aren't sincere in their beliefs, it's not that different from when democrats thought that Russian interference changed the vote totals(though it wasn't as common) back in 2016

No, it's that they're lying to themselves and engaging in doublethink. The Russian interference thing isn't comparable because there was at least a kernel of truth to it, and "Russia manipulated social media and strategically leaked hacked emails through wikileaks" (which DID happen) isn't as punchy a slogan as "Russia hacked the election", which led many people to assume that Russia had actually manipulated the vote totals (which didn't happen).

[demoman1596]

If you as a Republican genuinely believed the 2020 election was stolen, you wouldn't be acting like your vote actually matters anymore, and you would be sitting out all subsequent elections, with a few turning to domestic terrorist groups as an alternative.  However, the fact that so many turned out to vote this November, and that a vast majority are motivated to vote in the 2022 midterms indicates otherwise:

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1453451937312120843?ref_src=twsrc%5Etf...
So basically they are lying to pollsters, and behaving en masse like trolls pretending to believe the conspiracy theories about the past election.  But to what end?  

Here is a possible explanation:

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1453674433491742720

That's because you have a totally strawman-based view of what we think. Yes, it was stolen, by the same methods that have been used for decades and decades. It can only make the difference in a very close election decided by less than a point or 2. Having an extremely close election stolen does not make it impossible to win in the future, that is an incredibly narrow-minded view. Just win bigger. Voting does matter, it would be insane to think otherwise.

What proof is there that it was stolen?

The idea that the other party could win an election hurts his feelings and so must be impossible

That is an incredibly dishonest statement. I have no real feelings about it at all. It is what it is. Of course it is possible for the other side to win. Obama and Bill Clinton did it twice. I am simply going by the evidence. Poll observers were removed from where they were supposed to be, showing that the people that removed them were hiding something. The names of tens of thousands of voters have been matched to names on the voter file as being dead or having moved, thus being ineligible, and they were disproportionately in blue cities. Trump won almost all of the bellwether counties, with the only exceptions being Clallam, WA, Blaine, MT, and of course Kent, DE. In PA and GA, ballots arrived after Election Day and were counted, which should never happen. In Wisconsin, the rejection rate was 0.2% instead of the usual 2%, showing that they did not do signature verification. The Arizona audit found that there were at least 57,000 illegal ballots cast in Maricopa Country. Furthermore, there is a long history of Democrats stealing close elections, in both the primary and the general, such as the 1948 Senate primary in Texas, the 1960 Presidential election, the 2020 Iowa Caucuses (stolen from Bernie), and Wisconsin was probably stolen from George W. Bush twice considering how Milwaukee had disproportionately high turnout compared to similar areas around the country. Also, Gore tried to steal Florida from Bush but failed. Broward County, FL always had large amounts of ballot arriving late, though not in 2020 since Brenda Snipes was removed. It's not about feelings, I just tell it like it is. You should be ashamed of yourself for slandering me here.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Biden had basically the same vote share in the Republican-dominated state of Kansas as Obama got in 2008 and the second highest since Dukakis?  Was it because the Democrats rigged the Kansas election, too?  Should I try to argue that Biden really won nationally in an Obama-esque drubbing because they both received similar results in that state?

What about in Alaska?  Biden got the 3rd-highest vote share of any Democratic presidential candidate since they gained statehood.