At least 4 killed in shooting at Michigan high school

[Suburbia]

I want to focus on these beautiful kids and how they lived their lives before their horrible deaths.

 But how is that going to help the next groups of kids and young people who will be gunned down in their school or neighborhoods because people like you want to focus on everything except accountability.

Exactly.
Bronz's comment is ... "just worry about beautiful kids as they die today, tomorrow, and the next day, and next month. Don't worry about the fact that kids will keep dying over and over again, endlessly and forever ... Just focus on these beautiful kids as they keep dying."

Focus on the beautiful kids lost to heinous violence. No one wants to hear about that stupid family. The Detroit Lions, Michigan State sports will be honoring Tate and the other victims. Please, lets focus on them and the lives they would have lived.

Tate's football team is probably going to go on a Cinderella run, dedicating their team and season for him, playing for him.

We can focus on gun control another day. I'm not downplaying what happened. It is not the gun's fault, it is the shooter's fault as well. Doesn't Michigan have gun laws already on the books?

[Where's the Epstein Client List?]

Can we focus on the victims, please?

Can we focus on Tate's heroism, please?

Not the shooter?

Please?

"Can we focus on the rape victims, not the rapist?"

"Can we focus on the victims of 9/11, not on the terrorists who orchestrated it?"

A society without justice is a lawless, amoral society.

The person who killed those people needs to be locked up for a very, very long time.

His parents who bought and gave him access to that gun need to be locked up for a very, very long time.

Every last trifle and trinket they own should be seized and sold to fund compensation for the victims.

[falling apart like the ashes of American flags]

https://twitter.com/FOX2News/status/1467003301552132100

[Where's the Epstein Client List?]

The focus on gun laws distracts from the bigger problem in this and nearly every other case of this kind — systematic bullying and the inability to deal with it/mete out proper punishment to bullies/teach basic empathy at school and at home. For the umpteenth time, it’s not guns that make people commit (much less kids at that age) these crimes, nor is it video games. Does that mean that there aren’t serious issues with our gun laws? No. But these crimes reveal as much if not more about the state of our society than they do about the dangers of particular, state-specific gun laws. Tackling the latter without acknowledging the deeply corrupted state of the former is yet another example of how modern-day liberalism wishes to make superficial changes that blur the deeper, more underlying destructive mechanisms of our society — and if there’s one thing this ideology is good at, it’s distracting from the true roots of ill and evil. There is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should have access to these guns, but there sure as hell is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should ever be driven to such desperation that he feels like pulling the trigger is the only way out.

Speaking as someone who is accustomed to an ingrained gun culture and enjoyed his toy guns as much as the next boy in my town, I can assure you that even at that age I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking a real gun and pointing it at anyone. Like many other kids, I had my own 'violent' fantasies and acted out my own (fictional) westerns/crime scenes/investigations but all in the knowledge that what I’m doing is senseless, (to me) hilarious, inoffensive pastime. This is less related to gun laws, but I just want to emphasize how sensationalist, grossly reductionist portrayals in media of 'kids turning into evil killers' usually are. This was likely a boy who (unlike me) was deprived of any loving care, affection, companionship, and likely had to go through hell in school. The killer was him in this case, but it could have been you or me in some alternate timeline.

https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1466909811661017089?s=20

[Hammy]

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

If you have a disease, you don't put off treatment because you're upset over the diagnosis. Gun violence is a disease, and it seems every time it relapses, people like you collectively decide that's the worst time to treat it.

[Meclazine for Israel]

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

If you have a disease, you don't put off treatment because you're upset over the diagnosis. Gun violence is a disease, and it seems every time it relapses, people like you collectively decide that's the worst time to treat it.

It is interesting that you call it a disease.

Mass shootings can be contagious through the media

The perpetrators are usually people looking to commit suicide who want to be remembered as going out in a blaze of glory.

Martin Bryant was inspired to kill 35 people six weeks after the Dunblane massacre involving 16 children.

[walleye26]

The thing that stood out to me about this whole thing is how non-chalant the parents were about this kid. If the school calls me because he’s making mass shooting threats, the last thing I would do is let him anywhere near a gun. Much less joke about it by saying “lol don’t get caught next time”

[Suburbia]

Can we focus on the victims, please?

Can we focus on Tate's heroism, please?

Not the shooter?

Please?

"Can we focus on the rape victims, not the rapist?"

"Can we focus on the victims of 9/11, not on the terrorists who orchestrated it?"

A society without justice is a lawless, amoral society.

The person who killed those people needs to be locked up for a very, very long time.

His parents who bought and gave him access to that gun need to be locked up for a very, very long time.

Every last trifle and trinket they own should be seized and sold to fund compensation for the victims.

Yes, I want to talk about the heroes of 9/11, not Atta and the scumbags who killed 3,000 Americans. Yes. I want to remember Port Authority officer Christopher Amoroso, who sacrificed his life running into the Towers while perishing, Firefighter Mychal Judge, who perished, Welles Crowther, the man in the red bandana, who sacrificed his life saving people while being a part-time volunteer firefighter......

We talk about the victims, not the scum who killed them.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/america.remembers/stories/heroes/welles.html


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/widow-of-9-11-hero-meets-woman-her-husband-rescued-after-20-years/3258434/

[Ferguson97]

It’s truly insane how mass shooters are the only crime that turn into a character study. Any other crime and their and the perpetrator has full responsibility and no one tries to paint them as a victim pushed too far. But when it’s a mass shooter, society has somehow failed this person. It’s borderline victim blaming. 

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

I really really hate this sentiment.

Their “sacrifices”? They were teenagers murdered by a classmate. Their deaths were easily preventable. To focus on the victims is to abdicate the responsibility to fix our society’s problems.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

In all likelihood, the shooter was a bully himself.

You don't need to look at him twice to know this is not true, except to the extent everyone bullies and everyone gets bullied. But whatever you need to say so you think "this person isn't like me at all and there is no reason to have any empathy because people are either good or evil." Complete simple-mindedness as usual.

Yep, I'm sure this person was just born evil, treated others poorly and killed people because he was evil. Surely no one bullied this freakish looking runt.

That isn't an excuse for him - I'm just so sick of the online attitude that "mental illness/people getting bullied are always the victims and never the victimizers because I am ill/bullied and never would have done anything like that in response to it." People react differently to these things. Thankfully 99% don't do anything and 95% don't even think of it.

[Ferguson97]

In all likelihood, the shooter was a bully himself.

You don't need to look at him twice to know this is not true, except to the extent everyone bullies and everyone gets bullied. But whatever you need to say so you think "this person isn't like me at all and there is no reason to have any empathy because people are either good or evil." Complete simple-mindedness as usual.

Yep, I'm sure this person was just born evil, treated others poorly and killed people because he was evil. Surely no one bullied this freakish looking runt.

That isn't an excuse for him - I'm just so sick of the online attitude that "mental illness/people getting bullied are always the victims and never the victimizers because I am ill/bullied and never would have done anything like that in response to it." People react differently to these things. Thankfully 99% don't do anything and 95% don't even think of it.

The reason that I reject that sentiment is because of the underlying implication of “oh maybe if everyone was nicer to him, this wouldn’t have happened!”… it’s victim blaming

[Matty]

The fundamental problem this board simply does not grasp is that so called “common sense” gun laws wouldn’t do Jack. The only thing that would actually reduce gun violence is widespread confiscation and outright banning of the entire industry.

Vox had an excellent article a few years ago that went through each mass shooting in America since 2000

They sadly concluded that not a single shooting would have been prevented by “background checks”, because

A) the shooter stole the weapons
B) the shooter passed a background check


The only things that would substantially alter gun violence in America likely violate the 2nd amendment

It’s the elephant in the room.

The left needs to focus on garnering enough states to support conventions to repeal the 2nd amendment

[Hermit For Peace]

The fundamental problem this board simply does not grasp is that so called “common sense” gun laws wouldn’t do Jack. The only thing that would actually reduce gun violence is widespread confiscation and outright banning of the entire industry.

Vox had an excellent article a few years ago that went through each mass shooting in America since 2000

They sadly concluded that not a single shooting would have been prevented by “background checks”, because

A) the shooter stole the weapons
B) the shooter passed a background check


The only things that would substantially alter gun violence in America likely violate the 2nd amendment

It’s the elephant in the room.

The left needs to focus on garnering enough states to support conventions to repeal the 2nd amendment

That ain't gonna happen. It's a waste of time trying to go that route.

[emailking]

They were arrested in a warehouse in Detroit and have pled not guilty.

[Suburbia]

The fundamental problem this board simply does not grasp is that so called “common sense” gun laws wouldn’t do Jack. The only thing that would actually reduce gun violence is widespread confiscation and outright banning of the entire industry.

Vox had an excellent article a few years ago that went through each mass shooting in America since 2000

They sadly concluded that not a single shooting would have been prevented by “background checks”, because

A) the shooter stole the weapons
B) the shooter passed a background check


The only things that would substantially alter gun violence in America likely violate the 2nd amendment

It’s the elephant in the room.

The left needs to focus on garnering enough states to support conventions to repeal the 2nd amendment

And that would lead to disaster. Abolishing the 2A would lead to civil war.

So, why not enforce the laws already

[Fuzzy Bear]

It’s truly insane how mass shooters are the only crime that turn into a character study. Any other crime and their and the perpetrator has full responsibility and no one tries to paint them as a victim pushed too far. But when it’s a mass shooter, society has somehow failed this person. It’s borderline victim blaming. 

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

I really really hate this sentiment.

Their “sacrifices”? They were teenagers murdered by a classmate. Their deaths were easily preventable. To focus on the victims is to abdicate the responsibility to fix our society’s problems.

That responsibility does not involve depriving law abiding gun owners of their Constitutional rights.

Behind the virtue signaling of the anti 2a crowd is the determination not to let this crisis go to waste.  Punish the guilty.  Not the law abiding.

[Ferguson97]

It’s truly insane how mass shooters are the only crime that turn into a character study. Any other crime and their and the perpetrator has full responsibility and no one tries to paint them as a victim pushed too far. But when it’s a mass shooter, society has somehow failed this person. It’s borderline victim blaming. 

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

I really really hate this sentiment.

Their “sacrifices”? They were teenagers murdered by a classmate. Their deaths were easily preventable. To focus on the victims is to abdicate the responsibility to fix our society’s problems.

That responsibility does not involve depriving law abiding gun owners of their Constitutional rights.

Behind the virtue signaling of the anti 2a crowd is the determination not to let this crisis go to waste.  Punish the guilty.  Not the law abiding.

What is the maximum number of dead schoolchildren you'd feel okay with before you'd consider reasonable gun control laws?

[Frodo]

Someone raised an interesting point, and one worth asking of those who call themselves 'pro-life' strictly with regards to abortion -shouldn't the lives of our children count at least as much as those who are as yet unborn?  Why turn a blind eye to school shootings, but then march in the streets to strip women of their right to an abortion?  If you are going to call yourselves 'pro-life', at least be consistent about it.  For everyone.  You should be demanding an end to these school shootings, and launch a crusade to end them.  You will have allies in that cause across the political spectrum, and it will go far in healing our divisions and bringing us back together as a nation.  

[jojoju1998]

Someone raised an interesting point, and one worth asking of those who call themselves 'pro-life' strictly with regards to abortion -shouldn't the lives of our children count at least as much as those who are as yet unborn?  Why turn a blind eye to school shootings, but then march in the streets to strip women of their right to an abortion?  If you are going to call yourselves 'pro-life', at least be consistent about it.  For everyone. 

The Late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin once talked about the seamless garment of life, where starting with Abortion ( Because for Catholics, it all flows from Abortion ), you then go into capitol punishment, protecting ALL life, at ALL Stages. From conception down to natural death.

[Suburbia]

Michigan State won the Big Ten championship.

They honored Tate's sacrifice and his family and the other 3.

https://sports.yahoo.com/big-ten-invites-family-tate-myre-serve-honorary-captains-championship-game-iowa-michigan-oxford-high-school-014658584.html

[NewYorkExpress]

Michigan State won the Big Ten championship.

They honored Tate's sacrifice and his family and the other 3.

https://sports.yahoo.com/big-ten-invites-family-tate-myre-serve-honorary-captains-championship-game-iowa-michigan-oxford-high-school-014658584.html

I hate to tell you this Bronz, but can you at least get basic facts right? Michigan won the Big Ten championship game, not Michigan State. Those are two separate schools.

[Where's the Epstein Client List?]

Can we focus on the victims, please?

Can we focus on Tate's heroism, please?

Not the shooter?

Please?

"Can we focus on the rape victims, not the rapist?"

"Can we focus on the victims of 9/11, not on the terrorists who orchestrated it?"

A society without justice is a lawless, amoral society.

The person who killed those people needs to be locked up for a very, very long time.

His parents who bought and gave him access to that gun need to be locked up for a very, very long time.

Every last trifle and trinket they own should be seized and sold to fund compensation for the victims.

Yes, I want to talk about the heroes of 9/11, not Atta and the scumbags who killed 3,000 Americans. Yes. I want to remember Port Authority officer Christopher Amoroso, who sacrificed his life running into the Towers while perishing, Firefighter Mychal Judge, who perished, Welles Crowther, the man in the red bandana, who sacrificed his life saving people while being a part-time volunteer firefighter......

We talk about the victims, not the scum who killed them.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/america.remembers/stories/heroes/welles.html


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/widow-of-9-11-hero-meets-woman-her-husband-rescued-after-20-years/3258434/

Ah yes, I remember how we never did anything like invade Afghanistan or kill Osama bin Laden.

After all, no need to focus so much on the perpetrators rather than the victims.

[Where's the Epstein Client List?]

It’s truly insane how mass shooters are the only crime that turn into a character study. Any other crime and their and the perpetrator has full responsibility and no one tries to paint them as a victim pushed too far. But when it’s a mass shooter, society has somehow failed this person. It’s borderline victim blaming. 

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

I really really hate this sentiment.

Their “sacrifices”? They were teenagers murdered by a classmate. Their deaths were easily preventable. To focus on the victims is to abdicate the responsibility to fix our society’s problems.

That responsibility does not involve depriving law abiding gun owners of their Constitutional rights.

Behind the virtue signaling of the anti 2a crowd is the determination not to let this crisis go to waste.  Punish the guilty.  Not the law abiding.

The Crumbleys were not "law abiding gun owners." They both had multiple criminal convictions, including DUI.

Furthermore, by purchasing a gun for their 15-year-old as a Christmas present, they were violating the law because 15-year-olds are not permitted to own firearms in Michigan.

[MT Treasurer]

The focus on gun laws distracts from the bigger problem in this and nearly every other case of this kind — systematic bullying and the inability to deal with it/mete out proper punishment to bullies/teach basic empathy at school and at home. For the umpteenth time, it’s not guns that make people commit (much less kids at that age) these crimes, nor is it video games. Does that mean that there aren’t serious issues with our gun laws? No. But these crimes reveal as much if not more about the state of our society than they do about the dangers of particular, state-specific gun laws. Tackling the latter without acknowledging the deeply corrupted state of the former is yet another example of how modern-day liberalism wishes to make superficial changes that blur the deeper, more underlying destructive mechanisms of our society — and if there’s one thing this ideology is good at, it’s distracting from the true roots of ill and evil. There is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should have access to these guns, but there sure as hell is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should ever be driven to such desperation that he feels like pulling the trigger is the only way out.

Speaking as someone who is accustomed to an ingrained gun culture and enjoyed his toy guns as much as the next boy in my town, I can assure you that even at that age I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking a real gun and pointing it at anyone. Like many other kids, I had my own 'violent' fantasies and acted out my own (fictional) westerns/crime scenes/investigations but all in the knowledge that what I’m doing is senseless, (to me) hilarious, inoffensive pastime. This is less related to gun laws, but I just want to emphasize how sensationalist, grossly reductionist portrayals in media of 'kids turning into evil killers' usually are. This was likely a boy who (unlike me) was deprived of any loving care, affection, companionship, and likely had to go through hell in school. The killer was him in this case, but it could have been you or me in some alternate timeline.

Yeah, no.

This "school shooters were victims of bullying" narrative needs to end. I was a victim of bulling in elementary and middle school, and I only ever thought of hurting myself. Never another person.

In all likelihood, the shooter was a bully himself.

"Everyone must act and think like me, otherwise they are an irrational lunatic/conspiracy theorist/extremist/cold-blooded criminal" - modern-day liberalism encapsulated in one response

I’m not familiar with all the details in this case nor will I pretend that I am, but how anyone who has grown up in our society and actually gone to a school can look at the photos of the victims and the shooter and conclude that it’s more likely that the killer was the one bullying strains belief... I don’t know which school you went to, but I’d wager there’s not a single one in this country in which any of these four kids (especially the high school athlete/football star) would be more likely to suffer from extensive group bullying than that shooter.

https://www.winknews.com/2021/12/01/students-describe-suspect-victims-in-michigan-school-shooting/

Once again: People would be well-advised to approach these events by paying attention to particular patterns. It never ceases to amaze me how bad this forum is at even the most basic psychology.

I don’t expect someone who views everything through a purely partisan lens to understand this, so there’s not much point in having this discussion.

[GoTfan]

I don't give a f(inks) if he was bullied. I was as well; I didn't become a murderer.