At least 4 killed in shooting at Michigan high school

[here2view]

As a teacher who deals with parents, I'm unsurprised (but beyond mad) by that mom's text to her kid.

Some (not all) parents have no shame and don't give a bleep about raising their kids properly.

It's sad.

[DaleCooper]

The focus on gun laws distracts from the bigger problem in this and nearly every other case of this kind — systematic bullying and the inability to deal with it/mete out proper punishment to bullies/teach basic empathy at school and at home. For the umpteenth time, it’s not guns that make people commit (much less kids at that age) these crimes, nor is it video games. Does that mean that there aren’t serious issues with our gun laws? No. But these crimes reveal as much if not more about the state of our society than they do about the dangers of particular, state-specific gun laws. Tackling the latter without acknowledging the deeply corrupted state of the former is yet another example of how modern-day liberalism wishes to make superficial changes that blur the deeper, more underlying destructive mechanisms of our society — and if there’s one thing this ideology is good at, it’s distracting from the true roots of ill and evil. There is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should have access to these guns, but there sure as hell is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should ever be driven to such desperation that he feels like pulling the trigger is the only way out.

Speaking as someone who is accustomed to an ingrained gun culture and enjoyed his toy guns as much as the next boy in my town, I can assure you that even at that age I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking a real gun and pointing it at anyone. Like many other kids, I had my own 'violent' fantasies and acted out my own (fictional) westerns/crime scenes/investigations but all in the knowledge that what I’m doing is senseless, (to me) hilarious, inoffensive pastime. This is less related to gun laws, but I just want to emphasize how sensationalist, grossly reductionist portrayals in media of 'kids turning into evil killers' usually are. This was likely a boy who (unlike me) was deprived of any loving care, affection, companionship, and likely had to go through hell in school. The killer was him in this case, but it could have been you or me in some alternate timeline.

Yeah, no.

This "school shooters were victims of bullying" narrative needs to end. I was a victim of bulling in elementary and middle school, and I only ever thought of hurting myself. Never another person.

In all likelihood, the shooter was a bully himself.

Again, I personally don't think it's bullying as much as it is the isolation associated with today's society. All these shooters tend to be weird guys with absolutely no social connection to other people. The only exception I can think of is the two Columbine murderers. Obviously it's tough not to think of Columbine whenever these tragedies happen, but in hindsight the Columbine shooters almost seem more like homegrown terrorists than they do the archetypal school shooters of the past decade, who are almost universally psychos who go their whole lives without speaking to another human being. People can deal with all manner of hardship if they have some kind of a support group, even if that support is just their dorky friends. But people do weird things when they're totally isolated.

[Hermit For Peace]

The focus on gun laws distracts from the bigger problem in this and nearly every other case of this kind — systematic bullying and the inability to deal with it/mete out proper punishment to bullies/teach basic empathy at school and at home. For the umpteenth time, it’s not guns that make people commit (much less kids at that age) these crimes, nor is it video games. Does that mean that there aren’t serious issues with our gun laws? No. But these crimes reveal as much if not more about the state of our society than they do about the dangers of particular, state-specific gun laws. Tackling the latter without acknowledging the deeply corrupted state of the former is yet another example of how modern-day liberalism wishes to make superficial changes that blur the deeper, more underlying destructive mechanisms of our society — and if there’s one thing this ideology is good at, it’s distracting from the true roots of ill and evil. There is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should have access to these guns, but there sure as hell is no reason a kid like him (or any kid) should ever be driven to such desperation that he feels like pulling the trigger is the only way out.

Speaking as someone who is accustomed to an ingrained gun culture and enjoyed his toy guns as much as the next boy in my town, I can assure you that even at that age I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking a real gun and pointing it at anyone. Like many other kids, I had my own 'violent' fantasies and acted out my own (fictional) westerns/crime scenes/investigations but all in the knowledge that what I’m doing is senseless, (to me) hilarious, inoffensive pastime. This is less related to gun laws, but I just want to emphasize how sensationalist, grossly reductionist portrayals in media of 'kids turning into evil killers' usually are. This was likely a boy who (unlike me) was deprived of any loving care, affection, companionship, and likely had to go through hell in school. The killer was him in this case, but it could have been you or me in some alternate timeline.

Yeah, no.

This "school shooters were victims of bullying" narrative needs to end. I was a victim of bulling in elementary and middle school, and I only ever thought of hurting myself. Never another person.

In all likelihood, the shooter was a bully himself.

Again, I personally don't think it's bullying as much as it is the isolation associated with today's society. All these shooters tend to be weird guys with absolutely no social connection to other people. The only exception I can think of is the two Columbine murderers. Obviously it's tough not to think of Columbine whenever these tragedies happen, but in hindsight the Columbine shooters almost seem more like homegrown terrorists than they do the archetypal school shooters of the past decade, who are almost universally psychos who go their whole lives without speaking to another human being. People can deal with all manner of hardship if they have some kind of a support group, even if that support is just their dorky friends. But people do weird things when they're totally isolated.

That's good insight. I think you are right about the isolation.

[West_Midlander]

Praying for the victims

[Comrade Luanne Platter]

One of the biggest questions here has to be how he got that gun; cause the Instagram post suggests it wasn’t just lifted off an adult or older sibling. Deeply, deeply disturbing — not that I expect gun fetishists here to do donkey manure to actually honor the victims.

[Hermit For Peace]

One of the biggest questions here has to be how he got that gun; cause the Instagram post suggests it wasn’t just lifted off an adult or older sibling. Deeply, deeply disturbing — not that I expect gun fetishists here to do donkey manure to actually honor the victims.

The parents bought it for him for Christmas. That's what I read.

[ultraviolet]

This is a huge deal in my community. I don’t know anyone from Oxford and I don’t think anyone I know knows anyone from there, but it’s hitting really hard. A ton of threats were made to southeast Michigan schools over the last few days.

Not my school but two surrounding ones got threats, but still cops were crawling here (and a fire truck), rumors flew and mass hysteria ensued yesterday, most people left during the day. And today we didn’t have school at all.

[NewYorkExpress]

I'd suggest first degree murder charges for both the child and the parents quite honestly.

Based on the available evidence, I find hard to believe the parents weren't aware of the child's plans and just conveniently ignored what he was doing.

[GP270watch]

So many people have senselessly lost their lives because America refuses to do anything sane or rational on gun control.

[Calthrina950]

So many people have senselessly lost their lives because America refuses to do anything sane or rational on gun control.

What is startling to me is that all four of these people were younger than I, and that I'm older than everyone who is in public school now. And given my father's recent death, I've been reminded once again of mortality. This really puts things in perspective.

[Suburbia]

So many people have senselessly lost their lives because America refuses to do anything sane or rational on gun control.

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

[Comrade Luanne Platter]

One of the biggest questions here has to be how he got that gun; cause the Instagram post suggests it wasn’t just lifted off an adult or older sibling. Deeply, deeply disturbing — not that I expect gun fetishists here to do donkey manure to actually honor the victims.

The parents bought it for him for Christmas. That's what I read.

So more proof of the insane culture around guns in this country if true. Who thinks to buy a gun for a 15 year old? I’m sure there are people here who are going to try and justify that and I stick by it: it’s a fetish at this point. And a perverse one that’s killing our people and children at that.

[GP270watch]

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

Who cares what you want to focus on? A classmate shot them dead(they're not coming back) with a gun his dumb parents thought was a good idea to buy as a present.

 I don't think there is a better time to ask why they're dead and if it's fair they're dead. All their hopes and dreams were taken away, for nothing. They were taken away from their families and loved ones, for nothing.

[Hermit For Peace]

This is a huge deal in my community. I don’t know anyone from Oxford and I don’t think anyone I know knows anyone from there, but it’s hitting really hard. A ton of threats were made to southeast Michigan schools over the last few days.

Not my school but two surrounding ones got threats, but still cops were crawling here (and a fire truck), rumors flew and mass hysteria ensued yesterday, most people left during the day. And today we didn’t have school at all.

Thank you for that update. So sad that this had to happen.

[Suburbia]

I want to focus on their sacrifices and their lives, can we leave the gun control talk for another day? Let's celebrate their lives and their entrance to Heaven, please?

Who cares what you want to focus on? A classmate shot them dead(they're not coming back) with a gun his dumb parents thought was a good idea to buy as a present.

 I don't think there is a better time to ask why they're dead and if it's fair they're dead. All their hopes and dreams were taken away, for nothing.

I know, and it hurts and it is painful, but what we can do as a country right now is focus on these beautiful children's lives and how they lived their lives, not on gun control, which is DOA as long as people cling to these assault weapons, or AR-15s or whatever they are called.

Gun control is DOA at the federal level. A 50-50 Senate is not going to pass it. Forget about Manchin or Sinema. Kelly, Hickenlooper and Warner won't touch it.....

Murkowski, Romney and Collins won't do it with Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton breathing down their neck.

I want to focus on these beautiful kids and how they lived their lives before their horrible deaths.

[GP270watch]

I want to focus on these beautiful kids and how they lived their lives before their horrible deaths.

 But how is that going to help the next groups of kids and young people who will be gunned down in their school or neighborhoods because people like you want to focus on everything except accountability.

[ProudModerate2]

I want to focus on these beautiful kids and how they lived their lives before their horrible deaths.

 But how is that going to help the next groups of kids and young people who will be gunned down in their school or neighborhoods because people like you want to focus on everything except accountability.

Exactly.
Bronz's comment is ... "just worry about beautiful kids as they die today, tomorrow, and the next day, and next month. Don't worry about the fact that kids will keep dying over and over again, endlessly and forever ... Just focus on these beautiful kids as they keep dying."

[Sestak]

Honestly there is some part of me that instinctively says this kid’s parents should be the ones being held to account for the murders themselves. The kid is obviously not innocent but given the behavior of his parents they’re arguably more at fault for the circumstances and certainly more of a menace to society.

[emailking]

I'd suggest first degree murder charges for both the child and the parents quite honestly.

Based on the available evidence, I find hard to believe the parents weren't aware of the child's plans and just conveniently ignored what he was doing.

First degree? You'd have to prove they planned in advance for people to be killed. Maybe that happened, but I haven't seen that.

[Mr. Illini]

Honestly there is some part of me that instinctively says this kid’s parents should be the ones being held to account for the murders themselves. The kid is obviously not innocent but given the behavior of his parents they’re arguably more at fault for the circumstances and certainly more of a menace to society.

Yep, this is my thought. At the end of the day the kid has to be held responsible, but he was absolutely and totally failed by his parents. He needed help and they refused to give it.

They armed him, encouraged him to buy ammo, were likely aware he was bringing the gun to school, and were then made aware that he had drawn an image of a person being shot captioned by “the thoughts won’t stop” AND then refused to bring him to mandated counseling and forced him back into school.

They might as well have put the gun in his hand and said “shoot.”

[NewYorkExpress]

Honestly there is some part of me that instinctively says this kid’s parents should be the ones being held to account for the murders themselves. The kid is obviously not innocent but given the behavior of his parents they’re arguably more at fault for the circumstances and certainly more of a menace to society.

Yep, this is my thought. At the end of the day the kid has to be held responsible, but he was absolutely and totally failed by his parents. He needed help and they refused to give it.

They armed him, encouraged him to buy ammo, were likely aware he was bringing the gun to school, and were then made aware that he had drawn an image of a person being shot captioned by “the thoughts won’t stop” AND then refused to bring him to mandated counseling and forced him back into school.

They might as well have put the gun in his hand and said “shoot.”

That's why I think Manslaughter is way too weak a charge from this prosecutor. We should be talking about at least Second Degree Murder, and probably First Degree Murder for both parents, in all honesty.

[NewYorkExpress]

One thing I'd consider if I were prosecuting the case is a plea bargain for the kid in exchange for his testimony against his parents.

Maybe offer to have him sentenced as a juvenile (since it looks like he's going to be charged as an adult) if he testifies against his parents.

[インターネット掲示板ユーザー Punxsutawney Phil]

A manslaughter charge makes some level of sense to me. The parents were immensely reckless and imprudent, but they likely had no real intent for people to die. They also did not directly request people get killed either.
They end up with a charge of manslaughter for each person their son killed. Four in total.
"Individuals found guilty of manslaughter will face criminal penalties which include fines of up to $7,500 and up to 15 years in prison"
They could be facing many years in prison - up to potentially sixty years. That's not nothing.

[Splash]

https://twitter.com/GaryMiles_DN/status/1466991587414757376

[emailking]

The reporting earlier today was that they told their attorneys they left for their own safety and were on their way back to turn themselves in. Sounded reasonable, but I guess it was just to buy themselves some time.