Biden to tap oil reserves in coordination with China, South Korea, Japan, India, and the UK
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November 26, 2021, 07:12:06 PM

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  Biden to tap oil reserves in coordination with China, South Korea, Japan, India, and the UK
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dead0man
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« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2021, 05:22:04 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.
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GP270watch
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2021, 05:26:00 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
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dead0man
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2021, 05:27:33 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.
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Vaccinated Russian Bear
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« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2021, 05:35:30 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

Haha, yes.

WE ALL GONNA DIE IN 10 YEARS!!!
Also, we need to burn more cheap oil to keep winning elections, stupid!  Afro
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Tsaiite
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2021, 05:37:37 PM »

South Korea and Japan literally have no oil, lol.

If you actually care about the environment more than you care about politics, you would embrace high gas prices.

During a pandemic? No. People need help right now.

The pandemic is over and paying an extra $40 a week or whatever at the pump is not a grave social ill.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2021, 05:38:33 PM »

Thank you Mr. President!
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2021, 05:39:00 PM »

South Korea and Japan literally have no oil, lol.

If you actually care about the environment more than you care about politics, you would embrace high gas prices.

During a pandemic? No. People need help right now.

The pandemic is over and paying an extra $40 a week or whatever at the pump is not a grave social ill.

It is when it results in Republicans winning elections.
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GP270watch
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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2021, 05:49:34 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.
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emailking
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« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2021, 06:19:02 PM »


How is this a smart decision? Americans use about 20 million barrels a day. Tapping 50M of oil out of the reserves is barely going to do anything past a few weeks. All this is doing is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency. All Joe Biden is doing this for is political gain and will do nothing to reduce long-term costs.

This is easily one of the worst moves the Biden administration has done.

How does that make it such a bad move? Your argument, as I understand it, is that this won't do anything. So why is it so bad?
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Tsaiite
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« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2021, 06:21:35 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2021, 06:57:03 PM by Tsaiite »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.
Climate change is neither of those things. It's a mathematical equation. We don't need to be at net zero in ten years or whatever nonsense. Climate change won't be a first order cause of anyone dying. That doesn't mean we don't have a very finite carbon budget.

It is simply an inconvenient truth that every ton of CO2 we emit now is a ton we can't emit later, lest the world warm by more than two degrees Celsius. If we exceed that benchmark, bad things will happen. Sea levels will rise six feet. Miami is five feet above sea level, and mitigating that would be very expensive. Large parts of the Desert Southwest will no longer be in the zone of human habitability--let alone usable for agriculture. Mitigating this would be very expensive, and leave a lot of people worse off. Hurricanes and wildfires will intensify, destroying millions of homes each year. Even if we approach two degrees Celsius, these problems will occur, albeit to an extent we can compensate for. As things stand, the world is on track for three degrees of warming, a genuine improvement over a decade ago.

To get below two degrees, the world cannot emit more than 1.07 trillion metric tons of carbon from today forward. The United States, then, can anticipate emitting up to 96 billion metric tons of CO2 to stay below the two degrees threshold. If we fail at this, it's not going to be *literally doomsday*, but it will very much not be worth the cost. As things stand, we are due to use up that carbon budget in 2036 at current rates of consumption. That's soon, and we can't go from 100% to 0% instantly. If we decrease annual emissions by 5% each year, zeroing out around 2055, we will use up our carbon budget with no margin for error. To accomplish this, then, the average American is going to have to emit less. And they're going to have to emit less every single year over and over again. And you do that by having them buy less gas.

Deal with the political consequences as you will, but those are the unchangeable natural constraints we live in. There's no way around them. The solution may be political but the consequences of any trajectory are known and final. So what's the move?
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hermit
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« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2021, 06:25:18 PM »



It's either Orange Man or Donald Trump. Orange Man Donald Trump sounds really lame and low-energy.


I like the name Cheeto, except it's probably a copyright infringement.
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Anaphylactic-Statism
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« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2021, 06:28:59 PM »
« Edited: November 23, 2021, 06:33:35 PM by Anaphylactic-Statism »

That's kinda funny, I was just playing The Campaign Trail and the oil reverses question just came up for the 2000 election. Tongue
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DTC
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« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2021, 06:53:23 PM »


How is this a smart decision? Americans use about 20 million barrels a day. Tapping 50M of oil out of the reserves is barely going to do anything past a few weeks. All this is doing is making us less prepared for a black swan event or a similar emergency. All Joe Biden is doing this for is political gain and will do nothing to reduce long-term costs.

This is easily one of the worst moves the Biden administration has done.

How does that make it such a bad move? Your argument, as I understand it, is that this won't do anything. So why is it so bad?

My argument is that we need this oil for reserves in case of an emergency (e.g hurricane takes out oil supply, or war, or mass power failures, etc.) . Using up some of it just to mildly lower gas prices for a few weeks is a stupid and shortsighted move. Gas prices being up from last year is nowhere close to an emergency.
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Santander
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« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2021, 07:16:57 PM »

South Korea and Japan literally have no oil, lol.

If you actually care about the environment more than you care about politics, you would embrace high gas prices.

During a pandemic? No. People need help right now.
The economy is booming and salaries are going up for workers at all skill and income levels.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2021, 07:19:58 PM »

Pushing on a string, bluntly.
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S019
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« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2021, 07:21:58 PM »

Gas prices should be high, so that people either use less or seek alternatives. There should be a cost for polluting, and if gas prices increase, they should remain high.

South Korea and Japan literally have no oil, lol.

If you actually care about the environment more than you care about politics, you would embrace high gas prices.


One of the few times that you've been right.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2021, 07:41:20 PM »

I paid about $52 to fill my tank last week, and I almost had a heart-attack.
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Vaccinated Russian Bear
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« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2021, 07:21:22 AM »

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dead0man
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« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2021, 07:48:14 AM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.
if you want gasoline to stay cheap you don't really care about the environment (or you're a moron), it doesn't matter what excuses you make for the position.  Just know that some of us will remember this next time one of the half wits want to ban some tiny piece of plastic used in places with successful garbage collection systems.

If you want less plastic in the ocean, convince Asia, Africa and S.America to do something with their garbage other than throw it in the river.  If you want less crap getting pumped into the air, pump less crap into the air.  An easy way to do that is let gasoline become slightly more expensive.  No laws need to be passed, no one has to be forced to do something by the authorities*.





*I understand that this is some people's favorite part of the laws they want to pass
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GP270watch
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« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2021, 10:58:22 AM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.
if you want gasoline to stay cheap you don't really care about the environment (or you're a moron), it doesn't matter what excuses you make for the position.  Just know that some of us will remember this next time one of the half wits want to ban some tiny piece of plastic used in places with successful garbage collection systems.

If you want less plastic in the ocean, convince Asia, Africa and S.America to do something with their garbage other than throw it in the river.  If you want less crap getting pumped into the air, pump less crap into the air.  An easy way to do that is let gasoline become slightly more expensive.  No laws need to be passed, no one has to be forced to do something by the authorities*.





*I understand that this is some people's favorite part of the laws they want to pass

I want the world to move on from gasoline. Republican politicians who support drill baby drill with no regulations are not going to get us there. It takes long term planning and welding political power, only a moron doesn't understand this. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2021, 11:28:49 AM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

Broadly true, but banning exports (the status quo ante 2015) would help both.
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Tsaiite
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« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2021, 11:33:48 AM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.
if you want gasoline to stay cheap you don't really care about the environment (or you're a moron), it doesn't matter what excuses you make for the position.  Just know that some of us will remember this next time one of the half wits want to ban some tiny piece of plastic used in places with successful garbage collection systems.

If you want less plastic in the ocean, convince Asia, Africa and S.America to do something with their garbage other than throw it in the river.  If you want less crap getting pumped into the air, pump less crap into the air.  An easy way to do that is let gasoline become slightly more expensive.  No laws need to be passed, no one has to be forced to do something by the authorities*.





*I understand that this is some people's favorite part of the laws they want to pass

I want the world to move on from gasoline. Republican politicians who support drill baby drill with no regulations are not going to get us there. It takes long term planning and welding political power, only a moron doesn't understand this. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.

That's true, but it's mathematically impossible to generate a successful long-term plan without demanding behavior change from working and middle class Americans--starting now. How do you think we can fix climate change if we don't coerce people into consuming less gasoline? Ultimately, you have to move from the politicking phase to the implementing phase or it's all kind of pointless. In 2021, simply being anti drill-baby-drill won't get us that far.
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BG-NY
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« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2021, 11:46:20 AM »

Globalism...
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GP270watch
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« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2021, 12:04:46 PM »

If you care about the environment and want cheap gas prices, you're an asshole.

 There is virtually no politcal appetite for taxing carbon emissions and fossil fuels to reflect the true cost of their environmental damage. Also wanting a President or his party to remain in power who actually wants to address climate change vs one who thinks Climate Change is a hoax invented by the Chinese, is a very important part of the politcal discussion within caring about the environment.
indeed, climate change is a political discussion, not an emergency.  I wish you'd tell yourself that next time you idiots want to ban straws.

 That's not at all what I said. If you can't figure out that policy and politics intertwine and that short term goals and long term goals have to be balanced and reconciled I don't know what to tell you.
if you want gasoline to stay cheap you don't really care about the environment (or you're a moron), it doesn't matter what excuses you make for the position.  Just know that some of us will remember this next time one of the half wits want to ban some tiny piece of plastic used in places with successful garbage collection systems.

If you want less plastic in the ocean, convince Asia, Africa and S.America to do something with their garbage other than throw it in the river.  If you want less crap getting pumped into the air, pump less crap into the air.  An easy way to do that is let gasoline become slightly more expensive.  No laws need to be passed, no one has to be forced to do something by the authorities*.





*I understand that this is some people's favorite part of the laws they want to pass

I want the world to move on from gasoline. Republican politicians who support drill baby drill with no regulations are not going to get us there. It takes long term planning and welding political power, only a moron doesn't understand this. It's really not a difficult concept to understand.

That's true, but it's mathematically impossible to generate a successful long-term plan without demanding behavior change from working and middle class Americans--starting now. How do you think we can fix climate change if we don't coerce people into consuming less gasoline? Ultimately, you have to move from the politicking phase to the implementing phase or it's all kind of pointless. In 2021, simply being anti drill-baby-drill won't get us that far.

 This is currently not realistic and counter productive, if you lose elections and political power to rivals who are going to move us many steps back. It really is that simple. Look at Trump blowing up CAFE standards that Obama passed. How does that help us reduce gasoline usage?

 When the alternative is so defiantly ignorant and uncaring about the environment trying to bash Biden or look for silly "hypocrisies" is not only dishonest, it's worthy of contempt.

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dead0man
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« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2021, 12:23:51 PM »

I'm not bashing specifically Biden for anything.  I'm flatty stating that wanting cheap gas and fewer greenhouse gases is moronic.  Expensive (or at least non-cheap) gasoline is an excellent way to create fewer greenhouse gases, and does it the world over.  It makes electric vehicles a viable alternative way faster than any CAFE standard could.  It makes people use less gasoline.  It makes people purchase more efficient vehicles.  These are good things.
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