SR 106-09: LouisvilleThunder Resolution (Passed)

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

hacking into a party's discord server,

No one to my knowledge has alleged that that LT hacked anyone's discord account to gain access to the the Laborite discord server. Had this been the case, LT would have been certainly banned from discord I would think and likely would have gotten a stiffer penalty on this site as well. However, no one has previous to this point (unless I have missed something) alleged this, nor has any evidence been presented that proves such.

Instead, I was under the impression that it was widely acknowledged that someone already with access to the discord server in question voluntarily handed over the link to LT, which if correct again puts them in jeopardy under the current Atlasian law's broad language (see above) and furthermore obviously refutes any notion that this was a "hacking".

We have had examples of entry to accounts being obtained on the RPP private forum and with regards to at least two Atlas accounts (one in 2009 and another in 2015), that I am aware of and the last two resulted in bans from the site (one for several months and the latter was permanent).

Guess I should clarify what is being referred to here. I'm not referring to LT having legit hacked into another person's account in terms of guessing their password or similar. What I am referring to is him having people in Laborcord who send him stuff according to his orders, without Laborcord leaders consent or them even having any real knowledge that these accounts work for LT and not for them until it is too late. There have been admissions by Labor themselves of having to remove these "LT moles". It also cannot be ruled out that a sock of LT himself exists or existed on Laborcord.

If it would be helpful and appropriate I can gather some discord screenshots as evidence.

While this is not hacking in the most egregious sense, it is certainly using undercover and unethical means to gain access to information that honestly LT should not even know exists an ideal world. Further, LT is not some innocent bystander being sent this stuff by coincidence or finding it accidentally but has instead admitted he actively solicits such information.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Screenshot 1: OBD admits LT had a mole in Laborcord that he eventually successfully found and disposed of. LT calls it an intuitive concept, doesn't deny it at all, and says he may get another mole in.



Screenshot 2: LT says breaking into laborcord is funny and heroic.



Screenshot 3: LT publicly and gleefully releases some laborcord leaks to the public



Screenshot 4: LT legit admits he has a Laborcord leaker doing his bidding



Screenshot 5: Ishan says LT has seen Laborcord, LT does not deny it. Was LT in Laborcord?!?



Screenshot 6: Admittedly the age is pushing into irrelevancy on this one, but back in 2019 one of his leakers legit dm'ed me:



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As you can see, these actions of having leakers (perhaps even himself!) in Laborcord and liking it and clearly desiring more of this information, are quite clear in their existence. Further, this shows that the doxxing incident was not a one-time thing, LT has been soliciting leaks for years from a party that he has never been in and most likely will never be in. And he doesn't shy away from it at all. This is beyond the pale and goes against basic principles of ethical political strategy.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Respectfully I would ask that we not bring Windjammer into this discussion. The resolution doesn't even mention him and will have no effect upon him or the verdict he published.

Less drama is good here

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

If someone will sponsor:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, hacking into having consensual unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Tired of seeing confusion and being confused myself

This is the situation from my read:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, hacking into having consensual unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions.

Sponsor Feedback: Unknown - was this hostile or was it objected to?
Status: Vote underway since December 08, 2021, 09:38:13 AM

"Consensual unauthorized" means that LT intentionally obtained internal party info and was not authorized to have that info. It is consent with respect to LT not with respect to Labor.

Technically, the simple act of a Labor member surprise pming a Fed laborcord stuff is giving the Fed unauthorized access. But more than that happened here. LT explicitly sought out such information and people who would give it to him, and ordered them to do just that. Thus consensual is designed to make that clear - LT did not obtain Labor info inadvertently- he willfully sought it out.

Also, my amendment was never objected to, so I guess it passed by voice on November 29? And then got stripped out by Ishan's Substitute Amendment? And now we're voting to just put back the words "Consensual unauthorized" without also bringing back the rest of the original text?

Or if all amendments go to a recorded vote regardless of feedback, then as Ishan's amendment was a substitute, it probably should have been moved to the end of the vote series, and my amendment voted on immediately after Western's. But too late now lol.

As we stand now if my amendment is passed the bill becomes nonsensical. Same goes for Tack's amendment.


If my sponsor can second this, I withdraw the amendment and reintroduce it as follows.

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, hacking into having consensual unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Indeed, I withdrew the amendment, since with Ishan's amendment passed and under the precedent of changes being indicated by the bold and the other text being there for convenience only, an opponent to the bill could fairly say the text would become literally:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.

having consensual unauthorized access to

And with Tack's amendment it would become:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.

Therefore, LouisvilleThunder shall be considered guilty of doxxing

having  unauthorized access to

Therefore, LouisvilleThunder shall be considered guilty of Breach of the Peace

and sentences him to 6 months without the right to vote in elections in Atlasia + 1 year barred from holding office for the count of Breach of the Peace; plus 1 year without the right to vote plus 2 years barred from holding office for the count of doxxing.

As you can see the added words become nonsensical without the rest of the text.

Whether some modification to the Senate rules is necessary to create a situation where either substitutes like Ishan's amendment get moved to the very end of the debate, or where adopting amendments like mine and tack's in the future also brings back the surrounding text that was not explicitly bolded is a discussion for another thread though.

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Anyways this is still pending if the Senate wishes to take it up:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, hacking into having consensual unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions.

Also will present this alternative:

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.
2. The Senate further condemns him for his intentional, unauthorized pursuit of internal party information.
3. The Senate further condemns him for his refusal to accept the results of the June 2021 presidential election.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

You know what, sure I sponsor this, this seems like a good all around condemnation of LT's activities surrounding June 2021 and it also points out that the doxxing was not the only inappropriate thing he did.

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.
2. The Senate further condemns him for his intentional, unauthorized pursuit of internal party information.
3. The Senate further condemns him for his refusal to accept the results of the June 2021 presidential election.

1. Didn't happen
2. All is fair in a game of love and war
3. I did concede the election

It's not like truth matters to a whole party though.

1. While a collection of unfortunate events means you got away with it from a legal perspective, doesn't mean it didn't happen

2. You don't want Labor invading FedCord/Conservacord, do you? So don't seek out Laborcord.

3. Uh, not before declaring victory, creating your own white house thread, considering several court challenges, and generally disturbing the peace. Further your actions appear to have created a whole party dedicated to further peddling the idea that the election was stolen.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I think we've reached a fine compromise that acknowledges and captures what has occurred. I would urge a Senator to move for a final vote.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Again, I will reiterate that what people are convinced of ≠ what the law says, and offer an amendment that take that consideration into account.

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.
21. The Senate further condemns him LouisvilleThunder for his intentional, unauthorized pursuit of internal party information.
32. The Senate further condemns him for his refusal to accept the results of the June 2021 presidential election.

(Y'all also really need to better format these bills.)

Motioning for a final vote.

Let's not mix things up here again - Wouldn't the Senate need to vote down the final vote motion first to get to your amendment?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Again, I will reiterate that what people are convinced of ≠ what the law says, and offer an amendment that take that consideration into account.

LouisvilleThunder Resolution

1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.
21. The Senate further condemns him LouisvilleThunder for his intentional, unauthorized pursuit of internal party information.
32. The Senate further condemns him for his refusal to accept the results of the June 2021 presidential election.

(Y'all also really need to better format these bills.)

Motioning for a final vote.

Let's not mix things up here again - Wouldn't the Senate need to vote down the final vote motion first to get to your amendment?

There would only be a vote on my motion (cloture) if someone objects, which has not occurred thus far.

Right - but since we are going with motions have to be officially acknowledged before the objection periods start - probably your motion should be recognized and handled first as it was posted first - not sure if Cao saw it before I quoted it and he definitely didn't acknowledge it.