SR 106-09: LouisvilleThunder Resolution (Amendment at Vote)
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November 29, 2021, 04:46:27 PM

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  SR 106-09: LouisvilleThunder Resolution (Amendment at Vote)
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Author Topic: SR 106-09: LouisvilleThunder Resolution (Amendment at Vote)  (Read 625 times)
President Scott☀️
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2021, 12:15:49 AM »

The Labor Party will never condemn moles because Windjammer uses them.

I'm going to respectfully ask you to back up this statement.
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President Adams
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2021, 12:25:27 AM »

The Labor Party will never condemn moles because Windjammer uses them.

I'm going to respectfully ask you to back up this statement.

I don't need to. He did it himself. During the LT court case fiasco while he was having his meltdown, he said he had Discord chat logs provided to him that proved there was a conspiracy against him.


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Lincoln Speaker Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2021, 12:26:32 AM »

Respectfully I would ask that we not bring Windjammer into this discussion. The resolution doesn't even mention him and will have no effect upon him or the verdict he published.

Less drama is good here
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President Scott☀️
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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2021, 12:30:13 AM »

Respectfully I would ask that we not bring Windjammer into this discussion. The resolution doesn't even mention him and will have no effect upon him or the verdict he published.

Less drama is good here

For once I'm in complete agreement with Wulfric. Labor never sends moles into other parties' servers and that's not going to change on my watch.
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President Adams
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2021, 12:42:51 AM »

Respectfully I would ask that we not bring Windjammer into this discussion. The resolution doesn't even mention him and will have no effect upon him or the verdict he published.

Less drama is good here

For once I'm in complete agreement with Wulfric. Labor never sends moles into other parties' servers and that's not going to change on my watch.

So as long as the Labor Party doesn't explicitly approve the above actions before they happen, you can wash your hands, right?
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Senator WD
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2021, 12:49:25 AM »

Senators, letís stay focused and proceed with this vote. We have another amendment after this one as well.
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Lincoln Senator Joseph Cao
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« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2021, 02:08:17 AM »

Nay.

This is a seriously inappropriate amendment as Yankee has already mentioned, not least because it now explicitly accuses LT of doing things that even Wulfric has said do not apply to him in the strictest sense.

As far as the wider bill goes I will simply say that "should have been found guilty" is so far out of our wheelhouse it might as well be hitching a ride on Voyager 1, which is the main problem with WD's apparent philosophy of "we can come to a definite conclusion on any matter we want."

Quote
Quote
hacking into a party's discord server,

No one to my knowledge has alleged that that LT hacked anyone's discord account to gain access to the the Laborite discord server. Had this been the case, LT would have been certainly banned from discord I would think and likely would have gotten a stiffer penalty on this site as well. However, no one has previous to this point (unless I have missed something) alleged this, nor has any evidence been presented that proves such.

Instead, I was under the impression that it was widely acknowledged that someone already with access to the discord server in question voluntarily handed over the link to LT, which if correct again puts them in jeopardy under the current Atlasian law's broad language (see above) and furthermore obviously refutes any notion that this was a "hacking".

We have had examples of entry to accounts being obtained on the RPP private forum and with regards to at least two Atlas accounts (one in 2009 and another in 2015), that I am aware of and the last two resulted in bans from the site (one for several months and the latter was permanent).


Guess I should clarify what is being referred to here. I'm not referring to LT having legit hacked into another person's account in terms of guessing their password or similar. What I am referring to is him having people in Laborcord who send him stuff according to his orders, without Laborcord leaders consent or them even having any real knowledge that these accounts work for LT and not for them until it is too late. There have been admissions by Labor themselves of having to remove these "LT moles". It also cannot be ruled out that a sock of LT himself exists or existed on Laborcord.

If it would be helpful and appropriate I can gather some discord screenshots as evidence.

While this is not hacking in the most egregious sense, it is certainly using undercover and unethical means to gain access to information that honestly LT should not even know exists an ideal world. Further, LT is not some innocent bystander being sent this stuff by coincidence or finding it accidentally but has instead admitted he actively solicits such information.

Yeah, that's the main problem. Not hacking as defined, so why put that in the bill when saying something along the lines of "underhandedly gained access to private servers" or something would do instead?

The amendment I promised to replace this bill and forgot to introduce is this:

Quote
LouisvilleThunder Resolution
1. The Senate of Atlasia condemns LouisvilleThunder for his doxxing of an Atlasian.

Avoids the multitude of problems with the current amendment and is clearer and more direct, I'll give you that, but still presumes an action that is not borne out by legal reality.
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2021, 02:17:08 AM »

The Labor Party will never condemn moles because Windjammer uses them.

I'm going to respectfully ask you to back up this statement.

I don't need to. He did it himself. During the LT court case fiasco while he was having his meltdown, he said he had Discord chat logs provided to him that proved there was a conspiracy against him.



Blablabla *insert childish nonsense*


I mean it's funny how you justify your private smear attacks as some kind of spying. I don't have spies and I don't Care about discord, I just had a Friend in your case who sent me all the scheming you were doing behind the scene.
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Pericles
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« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2021, 02:25:04 AM »

Aye
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President Adams
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« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2021, 02:28:56 AM »

The Labor Party will never condemn moles because Windjammer uses them.

I'm going to respectfully ask you to back up this statement.

I don't need to. He did it himself. During the LT court case fiasco while he was having his meltdown, he said he had Discord chat logs provided to him that proved there was a conspiracy against him.

-snip-
Blablabla *insert childish nonsense*


I mean it's funny how you justify your private smear attacks as some kind of spying. I don't have spies and I don't Care about discord, I just had a Friend in your case who sent me all the scheming you were doing behind the scene.

Don't care about Discord, huh? Weird how you begged your friend for an invite to snoop around in the server, then.




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Senator OBD
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2021, 02:44:29 AM »

sure, aye
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S019
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2021, 02:57:41 AM »

AYE
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Senator Kuumo
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2021, 03:14:30 AM »

Aye
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Chief Justice windjammer
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2021, 03:58:53 AM »

The Labor Party will never condemn moles because Windjammer uses them.

I'm going to respectfully ask you to back up this statement.

I don't need to. He did it himself. During the LT court case fiasco while he was having his meltdown, he said he had Discord chat logs provided to him that proved there was a conspiracy against him.

-snip-
Blablabla *insert childish nonsense*


I mean it's funny how you justify your private smear attacks as some kind of spying. I don't have spies and I don't Care about discord, I just had a Friend in your case who sent me all the scheming you were doing behind the scene.

Don't care about Discord, huh? Weird how you begged your friend for an invite to snoop around in the server, then.





I didn't "begg" anyone. I wanted to confront you directly. I don't hide behind servers like what you are doing.

But yes I Can confirm you I logg in on discord occasionnally.
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WB #NoToJo
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2021, 04:18:56 AM »

Aye on the amendment (since it's just condemning LT) though i'll be voting against any false accusation of hacking, even I don't think that's been a thing. Everything else needs to remain in the spotlight and condemned.
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Ishan
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2021, 10:17:35 AM »

Aye
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Old School Republican
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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2021, 02:08:55 PM »

Nay
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A Very Spiritual Man (and a vegetarian)
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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2021, 01:03:37 AM »

AYE
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Lincoln Speaker Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2021, 01:10:25 AM »

If someone will sponsor:

Quote
LouisvilleThunder Resolution

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, hacking into having consensual unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions.

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tack50
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« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2021, 08:03:21 AM »

Introducing the following amendment. If we are going to do this we may as well go full on bill of attainder.

Quote
LouisvilleThunder Resolution

- It is the Sense of the Senate that Governor LouisvilleThunder should have been found guilty of the criminal charges filed against him. Therefore, LouisvilleThunder shall be considered guilty of doxxing
- It is the further sense of the Senate that the actions of doxxing, having  unauthorized access to a party's discord server, and refusing to accept the results of an election, are never acceptable and dishonor the very fabric of the republic of Atlasia. Therefore, LouisvilleThunder shall be considered guilty of Breach of the Peace
- The Senate of the Republic of Atlasia hereby condemns Governor LouisvilleThunder for his aforementioned actions, and sentences him to 6 months without the right to vote in elections in Atlasia + 1 year barred from holding office for the count of Breach of the Peace; plus 1 year without the right to vote plus 2 years barred from holding office for the count of doxxing.

Yes I know this is blatantly unconstitutional. No I don't care Tongue
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tack50
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« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2021, 08:04:44 AM »

Also nay on the amendment.

If we are going to do a serious resolution, I prefer stronger language than what Ishan's amendment offers, even if the original might be too harsh. I definitely want to keep the 2nd point at the very least
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2021, 07:43:48 PM »

Nay
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Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
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« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2021, 08:07:58 PM »

Quote from: SR 106-09: LouisvilleThunder Resolution
Sponsor: S019
All the information I need.

Vote on Amendment:
NAY

Please accept this proxy for a final vote:
NAY

Please accept this proxy for tabling:
AYE
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President Adams
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« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2021, 08:19:23 PM »

Aye
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Ishan
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« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2021, 09:42:16 PM »

Aye
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