Is there any professor in a university in Germany or Austria who thinks that the nazis were lefties?
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January 20, 2022, 10:02:35 AM

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  Is there any professor in a university in Germany or Austria who thinks that the nazis were lefties?
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Author Topic: Is there any professor in a university in Germany or Austria who thinks that the nazis were lefties?  (Read 880 times)
buritobr
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« on: November 22, 2021, 07:07:18 PM »

Is there any professor of history, political science and other similar subjects in a university in Germany or Austria who thinks that the national socialism was a left-wing ideology?

I believe that the myth of the leftist nazism was born in the English speaking world through think thanks created by Mises's fans.
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 08:11:44 PM »

Left means "more statism" and right means "less statism," don'tchaknow? This is why the Soviets were more right-wing than Hitler but an anarcho-syndicalist commune is the most rightist society possible.
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Yeahsayyeah
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 02:17:35 AM »

If you mean "history, political science or sociology professor", then probably not.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2021, 04:11:21 AM »

If you mean "history, political science or sociology professor", then probably not.

But do you have some cranks in the STEM fields or Law that do?
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Yeahsayyeah
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2021, 05:40:17 AM »

If you mean "history, political science or sociology professor", then probably not.

But do you have some cranks in the STEM fields or Law that do?
None, that I am aware of at the moment. But the question used "think", not "state" so, who knows. E. g, here are really some right wing law professors, where one could think a rationalisation à la "the Nazis were/are left-wing could come handy. And there could be experts in one field that hold crackpot views in another, but are usually not open about that (of course, covid-19 has changed the part about openness a bit).
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2021, 06:20:03 AM »

Left means "more statism" and right means "less statism," don'tchaknow? This is why the Soviets were more right-wing than Hitler but an anarcho-syndicalist commune is the most rightist society possible.

Not even that, they had "socialist" in their name and Herr Schicklgruber actually used the word on the odd occasion! What more proof could anybody need??
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2021, 09:48:51 AM »

You would struggle to find anyone employed in that sort of post who thinks that outside the Americas, probably.
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Meclazine
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« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2021, 10:00:53 AM »
« Edited: November 24, 2021, 06:40:12 PM by Meclazine »

I wonder how long the would have lasted if they did not invade anyone and they did not persecute Jews, homosexuals, disabled people etc.

It was very odd that they moved to a Dictator State in 1935 in such a modern country for the time.
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palandio
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« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2021, 02:08:36 PM »

Is there any professor of history, political science and other similar subjects in a university in Germany or Austria who thinks that the national socialism was a left-wing ideology?

I believe that the myth of the leftist nazism was born in the English speaking world through think thanks created by Mises's fans.

I remember seeing a BVP (Bavarian People's Party) pamphlet from the Weimar Republic some years ago that argued that a good patriotic Christian should never vote NSDAP because it was a left-wing/socialist party. Hence the myth is almost as old as the Nazis, although in this case the idea was that the Nazis were bad because they were left-wing and not that the left-wing was bad because the Nazis were left-wing.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2021, 10:25:19 AM »

Probably Hans-Hermann Hoppe. But like most terrible thinkers (Mises) he found himself in the dumpster of ideas - the American libertarian movement.
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Yeahsayyeah
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2021, 02:07:20 PM »

Probably Hans-Hermann Hoppe. But like most terrible thinkers (Mises) he found himself in the dumpster of ideas - the American libertarian movement.
Oh, I totally forgot about this guy, but technically he is not a "professor in a university in Germany". On the other hand, his argument would probably more like..."democracy, communism, national socialism, social democracy and American liberalism are all just tools to expand state activity, centralize political power, spend money and diminish freedrom"
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buritobr
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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2021, 05:58:51 PM »

Probably Hans-Hermann Hoppe. But like most terrible thinkers (Mises) he found himself in the dumpster of ideas - the American libertarian movement.
Oh, I totally forgot about this guy, but technically he is not a "professor in a university in Germany". On the other hand, his argument would probably more like..."democracy, communism, national socialism, social democracy and American liberalism are all just tools to expand state activity, centralize political power, spend money and diminish freedrom"

He is a professor in the University of Nevada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Hermann_Hoppe
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buritobr
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2021, 06:10:59 PM »

Why did I post this question
In 2017, the German embassy in Brazil published a video about the dangers of the national socialism, considering it a far-right ideology. Some Brazilians who like this Mises american libertarianism sh**t tryied to teach German history to the German embassy, by saying that the national socialism was a left-wing ideology. The German ambassador answered that he had never seen this debate in Germany.
I wanted to know if there could be some younger crank the ambassador didn't know yet.

We should trust the academic community as a group, but we know there are some cranck individuals even in the universities and some of them have some academic CV.
There was that "scientist" who denied both global warming and tobacco influence on lung cancer.
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PIED PIPER
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2021, 08:50:12 PM »

I’m sure there is at least one weirdo.
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Nasty but Frank
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« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2021, 08:57:25 PM »
« Edited: November 25, 2021, 09:17:53 PM by Frank »

This is a very good explanation as part of a very good Youtube Series on between the wars that in this video covers Nazi economics from 1933-1939.  They weren't really left or right on economics, they were literal criminals putting the economy on a war footing.




"The Nazi economy appears to do well during the 1930s. But this is largely myth, as the German economy under Hitler is based on a self destructive, ideologically or selfishly fuelled irrationality driven by conquest and criminal practice."

It's 20 minutes long, I highly recommend everybody here see it.
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Yeahsayyeah
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2021, 05:46:56 AM »

The German ambassador answered that he had never seen this debate in Germany.
I wanted to know if there could be some younger crank the ambassador didn't know yet.
There surely isn't an academic debate about that and I have never seen it outside the internet. Of course, we also have internet-libertarians and internet-conservatives who want to push this narrative. The first ones to declare "All statism is created equal" and the others to relieve and whitewash their own ideology.

But there are differnces. Some have heard of Georges Sorel as a source of Mussolini's thinking and so National Socialism as a variety of Fascism has to be left-wing. Others try to argue that Fascism is only an Italian movement and the Nazis are not fascists, but somehow socialist. And one crackpot came up with the idea that National Socialism was invented by the Czechs because...well, they had the Československá strana národně socialistická which name could be translated to "national-socialist".
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2021, 10:54:03 AM »

There was also a (small) National Socialist Party in Britain during WW1 and the immediate aftermath.

Whilst (as the name suggests) it was nationalist to a degree, it was nothing like the NSDAP.
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beesley
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2021, 11:20:15 AM »

Well I've never come across any such academic in the UK.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2021, 11:28:05 AM »

But plenty of pundits and ideologues.
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Hnv1
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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2021, 01:43:08 PM »

There was also a (small) National Socialist Party in Britain during WW1 and the immediate aftermath.

Whilst (as the name suggests) it was nationalist to a degree, it was nothing like the NSDAP.
Mosley’s New Party (before the formation of the Union) advocated socialist policies of mass nationalisation not that dissimilar to the ILP of the time. Some of the British far right even hated him because of that.

But generally no one in their right mind can claim the Nazis were “left” because of their early dislike of “Jewish Geschäft”. Perhaps that tiny movement of national Bolsheviks Hitler destroyed in the thirties led by the Straßer brothers was “leftish”
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buritobr
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« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2021, 04:36:57 PM »

There are different degrees of the myth that the nazis were lefties.
There are those who claim that both nazism and fascism were left-wing ideologies because both the program of the National Socialist German Worker's Party and of the Italian Fascist Party in the late 1910s had similarities to the left regarding the economic policy. Mussolini was really a socialist before becoming a fascist. But the fascists forgot these "socialist" views on the economy when they came to power in 1922. Minister Alberto de Stefani was very pro free market. Mussolini tried to look like leftist again in the Italian Social Republic (1943-1945).
There are those who claim that nazism was left-wing but fascism not.
And there are those who claim that nazism was left-wing, but Franco and Salazar were good because they were neither nazi nor fascists. They forgot that Franco had the assistance of the "leftist" nazis in the Civil War.
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palandio
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« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2021, 05:00:34 PM »

[...] But the fascists forgot these "socialist" views on the economy when they came to power in 1922. [...]
Maybe this is nitpicking, but the fascist rise to power and the phase directly preceding it are directly linked to a reaction against socialism and social movements.
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buritobr
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« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2021, 07:44:46 AM »

This week, we found out that the father of the far-right candidate in Chile was "leftist"
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Pick Up the Phone
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« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2021, 09:54:29 AM »

Probably Hans-Hermann Hoppe. But like most terrible thinkers (Mises) he found himself in the dumpster of ideas - the American libertarian movement.
Oh, I totally forgot about this guy, but technically he is not a "professor in a university in Germany". On the other hand, his argument would probably more like..."democracy, communism, national socialism, social democracy and American liberalism are all just tools to expand state activity, centralize political power, spend money and diminish freedrom"

Exactly, his distinction in this case would be statism/anti-statism rather than left/right.

I can also second what my fellow German contributors have written: Don't know anyone in academia who would call national socialism a left-wing movement or the NSDAP a left-wing party. However, there is a (limited) academic debate whether national socialism should be classified as fascist or rather as an ideology sui generis that was merely inspired by fascism.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2021, 11:01:39 AM »

Which is the meaningless "distinction" cooked up by crackpot "libertarians".
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