An Evangelical Resurgence among White Americans during the Era of Trump

[H. Ross Peron]

Have to say I'm most interested in learning more about the Catholics who identify as "Evangelical."
Is that solely because of the political connotations?

As for the Catholic evangelicals, I think it is conservative Catholics who share some beliefs with Evangelical Protestants. Rick Santorum might be an example.

Also there are charismatic Catholics. There is a movement called the Catholic charismatic renewal.

I think it has more to do with the latter. Some Catholics are trying to reclaim the word evangelical because it really just means people who are trying to evangelize -- which Catholics should be trying to do. While most Catholics who ascribe to it are going to be politically conservative, it is not really used as a political term.

Theres also the phenomenon of Catholics adopting charismatic peactices.

[Samof94]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

[TJ in Oregon]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

You do realize the New Testament explicitly says that the dietary restrictions of the Old Testament don't apply after Jesus right?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

[Samof94]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

....no? Jesus also never said to not eat pork and shellfish and this rule is specifically overturned in the New Testament. It's like saying that it's unconstitutional in the US to produce and sell alcohol.

The next day as Cornelius’s messengers were nearing the town, Peter went up on the flat roof to pray. It was about noon, and he was hungry. But while a meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw the sky open, and something like a large sheet was let down by its four corners. In the sheet were all sorts of animals, reptiles, and birds. Then a voice said to him, “Get up, Peter; kill and eat them.” “No, Lord,” Peter declared. “I have never eaten anything that our Jewish laws have declared impure and unclean.” But the voice spoke again: “Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean.” The same vision was repeated three times. Then the sheet was suddenly pulled up to heaven.

[DaleCooper]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

[Associate Justice PiT]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

     Yep. I would point to Galatians 2 as the definitive treatment on how Christians should see the Law. "Pork and shellfish" whataboutism comes from a total failure to try and understand how Christian doctrine treats these rules.

[DaleCooper]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

     Yep. I would point to Galatians 2 as the definitive treatment on how Christians should see the Law. "Pork and shellfish" whataboutism comes from a total failure to try and understand how Christian doctrine treats these rules.

It's always a perfect indicator of people who have never done even a cursory study of what Christians actually believe.

[Samof94]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

Homophobic pastors constantly quote it anyway to talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

[RINO Tom]

Within Evangelicalism, I would expect there to be some interesting trends on which denominations grew and shrank these past four years, and indeed the past decade. I know that Pentecostalism is growing, but what does the data tell on other denominations?

In broad strokes:

The big winners were Pentecostals and non-denominational Evangelicals (read: hip Baptists). Baptists declined as did conservative Lutherans for the most part. Reformed churches experienced modest growth or broke even more or less, as did the Evangelical Free Church, and conservative Methodist churches.

I have only recently started to get into studying the history of Protestantism and the differences between various denominations, but I still maintain grouping Missouri Synod Lutherans as "Evangelical" is truly strange.  I grew up Missouri Synod before we switched to an ELCA church for convenience, and I don't know that anyone in our church would have seen themselves as "Evangelical" and having ANYTHING more in common with a Baptist (let alone a Pentecostalist...) than an ELCA Lutheran.  Sure, Missouri Synod is more conservative, but how could anyone say it doesn't descend from Mainline tradition historically?  Genuinely curious.

[DC Al Fine]

Within Evangelicalism, I would expect there to be some interesting trends on which denominations grew and shrank these past four years, and indeed the past decade. I know that Pentecostalism is growing, but what does the data tell on other denominations?

In broad strokes:

The big winners were Pentecostals and non-denominational Evangelicals (read: hip Baptists). Baptists declined as did conservative Lutherans for the most part. Reformed churches experienced modest growth or broke even more or less, as did the Evangelical Free Church, and conservative Methodist churches.

I have only recently started to get into studying the history of Protestantism and the differences between various denominations, but I still maintain grouping Missouri Synod Lutherans as "Evangelical" is truly strange.  I grew up Missouri Synod before we switched to an ELCA church for convenience, and I don't know that anyone in our church would have seen themselves as "Evangelical" and having ANYTHING more in common with a Baptist (let alone a Pentecostalist...) than an ELCA Lutheran.  Sure, Missouri Synod is more conservative, but how could anyone say it doesn't descend from Mainline tradition historically?  Genuinely curious.

No argument there. The media treats the Mainline/Evangelical divide as another conservative/liberal divide. This works most of the time, but it is really awkward for dealing with conservative mainline denominations like the Missouri Synod Lutherans or Presbyterian Church in America, or progressive Evangelicals like BRTD.

[Associate Justice PiT]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

Homophobic pastors constantly quote it anyway to talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

     The opposite extreme of "the Old Testament means nothing" is equally as wrong as "Christians shouldn't eat pork".

[Samof94]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

Homophobic pastors constantly quote it anyway to talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

     The opposite extreme of "the Old Testament means nothing" is equally as wrong as "Christians shouldn't eat pork".

ironically, that actually was the belief of some early Christians quite literally and the OT was written by Satan.

[Associate Justice PiT]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

Homophobic pastors constantly quote it anyway to talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

     The opposite extreme of "the Old Testament means nothing" is equally as wrong as "Christians shouldn't eat pork".

ironically, that actually was the belief of some early Christians quite literally and the OT was written by Satan.

     Marcion was a major heretic, so what he believed is ultimately not very relevant. Both Tertullian and St. Irenaeus of Lyons noted that his teachings were rejected by all those churches who could trace their episcopal lines to the apostles.

[Samof94]

They often idolize Trump as a “flawed vessel of God”. They also seem to think two women getting married is wrong yet they eat shellfish and pork.

This talking point is extremely lazy and shows extremely lacking understanding of the Bible and theology to boot. That's why you won't hear it as justification for performing same-sex marriages from actual progressive churches, affirming theology has much more valid grounds.

That’s not my point. Jesus himself was silent on that issue yet frequently mentioned the “pork and shellfish” stuff.

Christian scripture does not call for its followers to adhere to the Old Testament ceremonial law.

Homophobic pastors constantly quote it anyway to talk about how Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed.

     The opposite extreme of "the Old Testament means nothing" is equally as wrong as "Christians shouldn't eat pork".

ironically, that actually was the belief of some early Christians quite literally and the OT was written by Satan.

     Marcion was a major heretic, so what he believed is ultimately not very relevant. Both Tertullian and St. Irenaeus of Lyons noted that his teachings were rejected by all those churches who could trace their episcopal lines to the apostles.

I know but the Bible being divided up the way it was was his idea.