Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[bagelman]

Let's give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume metaphors are more difficult in Russian:

[snip]

Hmm, it's easy to imagine she could just be that stupid, but there's also the possibility of "I am required by my job to continue to praise Russia, but if you can read between the lines, I'm telling my friends and family that things are bad right now"

[bagelman]

Why not just rig it with like 60% in favor and then being able to at least pretend it's legitimate numbers?

That would imply that 40% of the population wants to remain with Ukraine. Russians ambivalent about the war would be like "What, so it's almost split 50/50? Why did my nephew have to die for this?". Russia is not a democratic culture.

[bagelman]

For those of you who don’t want to waste your time with the speech - Putin quoted scripture, claimed the US was making experimental super soldiers, vowed to “liberate the world”, suggested there was an Anglo-Saxon conspiracy and reiterated Russia’s right to all of southeastern Ukraine because of the Russian empire’s history and WW2. He then claimed the war needed to be fought to stop America from forcing Russians to become gay and trans.

So, we have the first instance of a Terminally Online war. I tremble to think of what is to come as future generations rise to power.

What Putin didn’t do in his speech is clarify what the annexations apply to. The documents have been signed - it seems the annexations are instantly in effect, but I’m not 100% sure - but there’s confusion as to whether they apply to the whole oblasts, the areas with referendums, the areas with referendums which hadn’t yet been lost by the time of annexation, or the 2014 LDPR gang borders. In other words, he’s communicating that he has new red lines but doesn’t know where they are.

None of the bolded sound encouraging for those worried about WWIII.

[bagelman]

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/13/politics/elon-musk-spacex-starlink-ukraine/index.html

"Exclusive: Musk's SpaceX says it can no longer pay for critical satellite services in Ukraine, asks Pentagon to pick up the tab"

This was expected after the Ukrainian govm't rightfully told him to fuck right off after he arrogantly tried to play peacemaker. That is enough for Musk to pull his support, because his ego got hurt.

[bagelman]

I do think that many of us here in the West aren't informed about Russia's less savory plans for ethnic Ukrainian people. People want to believe that the Cold War is over, that Russia isn't back to old Soviet Union era brutality, and they don't want to believe that Russia is a mafia state and its citizens are hostages because that would be going back to the bad old USSR days. So they see this war as something that should have been prevented through negotiation, as if Russia can be negotiated with.

It's disturbing that many further gone Republicans seem to have this clandestine admiration of Putin for being a right wing autocrat. If this was the Russian FSSR trying to restore the Ukrainian SSR, I figure they would have a different, less forgiving attitude.

[bagelman]

It is ironic that given how many Russo-Persian wars took place between the 1650s and 1820s now Iran emerge as a key ally for Russia.

Fascist Russia and Theocratic Fascist Iran agree on one thing: the western world order of democracy and human rights, not to mention US power, must be overturned.

[bagelman]

It is ironic that given how many Russo-Persian wars took place between the 1650s and 1820s now Iran emerge as a key ally for Russia.

Fascist Russia and Theocratic Fascist Iran agree on one thing: the western world order of democracy and human rights, not to mention US power, must be overturned.

Neither of those two regimes are even remotely close to fascism.

Schematics. They are authoritarian regimes.

[bagelman]

Reagan did not take down the Soviet Union.

FDR did not "strengthen the Russian government's power" in any exceptional way.

You don't understand history, stop talking about it and read a book.

blah blah blah

Can we stop with this? Reagan is dead, this thread is about the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[bagelman]

Reagan did not take down the Soviet Union.

FDR did not "strengthen the Russian government's power" in any exceptional way.

You don't understand history, stop talking about it and read a book.

Reagan didn’t take down the Soviet Union single handedly, but he was, in my opinion, the single most important individual that led to Soviet Union and it’s influence over the world ending. A lot of people would say it was actually Gorbachev, but actually, Gorbachev had no realistic choice but to call the project quits. So yeah, he did more to help the country of Russia than any other president. I challenge you to submit an alternative to him and FDR.

Your opinion is bad. Reagan had little to no major contribution to the collapse of the USSR. Viewing history as "which individual contributed the most to complex events" is very silly. I am not going to play silly games.

The collapse of the USSR is a very complicated process that is debated upon and still researched by scholars today. It is not as simple as "which guy did the most." As I have said, to you, multiple times before I usually like to point out the massive inefficiencies inherent in the Soviet economic structure, the stagnation and sclerotic leadership culture developed during the Brezhnev period, and the unresolved question of nationalities were the main underlying causes. This is why Gorbachev had to "call it quits." It has nothing to do with anything Ronald Reagan did. Gorbachev's reforms brought about political circumstances that these deep seeded problems presented themselves in inescapable and challenging ways. In that way you could say Gorbachev was the most important, you could also argue that Gorbachev is less important, in either case Reagan is not important. I know you are entirely immune to reason, but please consider that you do not in fact know your history.

As for FDR being the most "pro Russian government" President we've ever had. I guess if you consider Lend-Lease to the USSR (I don't know what FDR "personally liking Stalin" means or it is relevant), that is maybe true? But if you think Lend-Lease to the USSR is a bad thing, you might be a Nazi, or just wrong.

You're right but there's little reason for you to have bothered responding. This thread is about the war, not about FDR or Stalin or whatever. Let's not waste our time allowing people to derail everything.

Putin must be so relieved by this point -he knows now he can depend on the Republican Party to come through for him in the end.  All he has to do is hold on for just a few more months until Congress changes hands in January:

McCarthy: No 'blank check' for Ukraine if GOP wins majority

Yep, and this will be during the winter so mobility will overall decrease. Still I doubt Putin is jumping for joy at the overall war situation, the situation with the GOP in the US is a minor victory at best.

[bagelman]

snip

I wonder what Russia would have to gain from sabotaging their own war effort. Perhaps there are forces within the Kremlin who are disgusted by this conflict, and by Putin for waging it.