Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1512202757163335687
Here's what Politico has to say on the matter.

A decision on the matter was initially expected this week. But it’s now in limbo as the Social Democrat chancellor — much to the frustration of his governing coalition partners — argues Germany should first reach a common position with Western allies on the subject before delivering such heavy military equipment, the officials said.

“We’re setting in motion everything that’s right and sensible,” the chancellor told the Bundestag on Wednesday when asked about tank deliveries. Yet Scholz added that it was important for him to coordinate among EU and NATO partners to ensure “that we provide such military support in the same way, and that no one is rushing ahead — including Germany.”

He added: “I believe that this is precisely an issue where it would be a grave mistake for Germany to take a special role and a special path.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-delivery-to-ukraine/

Absolutely vile. I hope the German press crucifies him tomorrow.

So far, German media tends to attack the government for the lack of a gas embargo but not so much for a lack of a tank delivery. I saw articles to the effect though that German tanks (due to issues of logistics and training of personnel) wouldn't be operational in the Ukrainian military until next winter anyway. This Politico article here mentions these issues too.

It's true however that being very cautious and taking things slow is often Olaf Scholz' standard mode of operation, not only when it comes to Ukraine but in general.

Correction: A new editorial by major center-left newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung argues in favor of delivering tanks to Ukraine "fast"

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/meinung/ukraine-krieg-panzer-russland-waffenlieferung-wladimir-putin-1.5563234?reduced=true

Good. Even if they will take some time to be operational, there is no excuse for further delays.

Scholz is probably just havering for havering’s sake, but a well-coordinated international approach would probably not send Marders until Europe was out of fighting vehicles Ukraine already uses, assuming certain European countries would be willing to replace theirs with Marders but would not be willing to donate them without some kind of replacement.

It’s the same with the Australian Bushmasters and the British armoured vehicles left over from Afghanistan that are being sent/discussed respectively. All of these will need different logistics and training (although not much in the Bushmasters’ case, at least), most of them are just what’s easiest to give rather than what’s most useful, and it doesn’t appear to have been considered whether these deliveries could continue at scale in the long term. What this means is that the Ukrainian Army risks becoming increasingly irregular and hard to support, with more kinds of specialists and technicians required than before.

At the end of the day, it is probably better to give a small country some Marders for its BMPs, assuming a fair exchange. That is the devil in the detail, though: I don’t know how well a BMP stacks up to a Marder (and it depends on the upgrades and condition), but what I do know is that the armies that currently possess vehicles to be exchanged in this way will overvalue them. There is bound to be initial disagreement on a fair exchange rate, and that could cause a delay like the one Germany is having.

[CumbrianLefty]

Russia now claiming that Ukraine killed their own people in Kramatorsk.

They really are total overgrown kids.

[Logical]

https://twitter.com/eduardheger/status/1512386024399376389
https://twitter.com/matosalka/status/1512177964020121608

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1512202757163335687
Here's what Politico has to say on the matter.

A decision on the matter was initially expected this week. But it’s now in limbo as the Social Democrat chancellor — much to the frustration of his governing coalition partners — argues Germany should first reach a common position with Western allies on the subject before delivering such heavy military equipment, the officials said.

“We’re setting in motion everything that’s right and sensible,” the chancellor told the Bundestag on Wednesday when asked about tank deliveries. Yet Scholz added that it was important for him to coordinate among EU and NATO partners to ensure “that we provide such military support in the same way, and that no one is rushing ahead — including Germany.”

He added: “I believe that this is precisely an issue where it would be a grave mistake for Germany to take a special role and a special path.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-delivery-to-ukraine/

Absolutely vile. I hope the German press crucifies him tomorrow.

So far, German media tends to attack the government for the lack of a gas embargo but not so much for a lack of a tank delivery. I saw articles to the effect though that German tanks (due to issues of logistics and training of personnel) wouldn't be operational in the Ukrainian military until next winter anyway. This Politico article here mentions these issues too.

It's true however that being very cautious and taking things slow is often Olaf Scholz' standard mode of operation, not only when it comes to Ukraine but in general.

Correction: A new editorial by major center-left newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung argues in favor of delivering tanks to Ukraine "fast"

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/meinung/ukraine-krieg-panzer-russland-waffenlieferung-wladimir-putin-1.5563234?reduced=true

Good. Even if they will take some time to be operational, there is no excuse for further delays.

Scholz is probably just havering for havering’s sake, but a well-coordinated international approach would probably not send Marders until Europe was out of fighting vehicles Ukraine already uses, assuming certain European countries would be willing to replace theirs with Marders but would not be willing to donate them without some kind of replacement.

It’s the same with the Australian Bushmasters and the British armoured vehicles left over from Afghanistan that are being sent/discussed respectively. All of these will need different logistics and training (although not much in the Bushmasters’ case, at least), most of them are just what’s easiest to give rather than what’s most useful, and it doesn’t appear to have been considered whether these deliveries could continue at scale in the long term. What this means is that the Ukrainian Army risks becoming increasingly irregular and hard to support, with more kinds of specialists and technicians required than before.

At the end of the day, it is probably better to give a small country some Marders for its BMPs, assuming a fair exchange. That is the devil in the detail, though: I don’t know how well a BMP stacks up to a Marder (and it depends on the upgrades and condition), but what I do know is that the armies that currently possess vehicles to be exchanged in this way will overvalue them. There is bound to be initial disagreement on a fair exchange rate, and that could cause a delay like the one Germany is having.

The Marder issue in Germany is that the vehicles would have to come from our army's active inventory. The vehicles that would be given to Ukraine now could only be replaced sometime next year by a number of Marders that are currently undergoing refurbishment at Rheinmetall. Our defence minister argues that Germany couldn't fulfill its NATO commitments with such a temporary hole gaping in the army's inventory and therefore refers the question of delivering Marders to Ukraine to NATO itself.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://twitter.com/eduardheger/status/1512386024399376389

It took way too long, but the Slovakian S-300 deal has come through. Its PM announced today that the sole battery (presumably with multiple launchers) arrived in Ukraine two days ago.

The US is deploying a fourth Patriot battery in Slovakia which will stay there “as long as necessary.” Some complaints from Slovakian politicians are being made as it’s not clear Slovakia is being given any replacement air defences it can own, or buy at a discount. It seems the US has successfully(?) driven a hard bargain, which should make negotiations easier for them when it comes to the more numerous S-300s in Bulgaria and Greece.

Slovakia also has medium-range Kub air defences that Ukraine apparently still uses, but we’ve seen no footage of those in this war and there was no mention of transferring these systems. Essentially, they are crappier, older versions of the Buk system which Ukraine has in decent stocks, but that no NATO state (besides maybe the US) possesses. In the EU (but outside NATO), Finland might have some old missiles but it’s apparently scrapped its launchers, and Cyprus has working systems but is too close to Russia to send anything (politically speaking).

There are other ex-Soviet/Russian AA systems that could be very useful which I haven’t mentioned here, but the S-300s and Buks are probably the most in-demand for Ukraine.

Edit: Logical posted the above first while I was writing this, so I’m crediting him here.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1512202757163335687
Here's what Politico has to say on the matter.

A decision on the matter was initially expected this week. But it’s now in limbo as the Social Democrat chancellor — much to the frustration of his governing coalition partners — argues Germany should first reach a common position with Western allies on the subject before delivering such heavy military equipment, the officials said.

“We’re setting in motion everything that’s right and sensible,” the chancellor told the Bundestag on Wednesday when asked about tank deliveries. Yet Scholz added that it was important for him to coordinate among EU and NATO partners to ensure “that we provide such military support in the same way, and that no one is rushing ahead — including Germany.”

He added: “I believe that this is precisely an issue where it would be a grave mistake for Germany to take a special role and a special path.”

https://www.politico.eu/article/scholz-holds-up-german-tank-delivery-to-ukraine/

Absolutely vile. I hope the German press crucifies him tomorrow.

So far, German media tends to attack the government for the lack of a gas embargo but not so much for a lack of a tank delivery. I saw articles to the effect though that German tanks (due to issues of logistics and training of personnel) wouldn't be operational in the Ukrainian military until next winter anyway. This Politico article here mentions these issues too.

It's true however that being very cautious and taking things slow is often Olaf Scholz' standard mode of operation, not only when it comes to Ukraine but in general.

Correction: A new editorial by major center-left newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung argues in favor of delivering tanks to Ukraine "fast"

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/meinung/ukraine-krieg-panzer-russland-waffenlieferung-wladimir-putin-1.5563234?reduced=true

Good. Even if they will take some time to be operational, there is no excuse for further delays.

Scholz is probably just havering for havering’s sake, but a well-coordinated international approach would probably not send Marders until Europe was out of fighting vehicles Ukraine already uses, assuming certain European countries would be willing to replace theirs with Marders but would not be willing to donate them without some kind of replacement.

It’s the same with the Australian Bushmasters and the British armoured vehicles left over from Afghanistan that are being sent/discussed respectively. All of these will need different logistics and training (although not much in the Bushmasters’ case, at least), most of them are just what’s easiest to give rather than what’s most useful, and it doesn’t appear to have been considered whether these deliveries could continue at scale in the long term. What this means is that the Ukrainian Army risks becoming increasingly irregular and hard to support, with more kinds of specialists and technicians required than before.

At the end of the day, it is probably better to give a small country some Marders for its BMPs, assuming a fair exchange. That is the devil in the detail, though: I don’t know how well a BMP stacks up to a Marder (and it depends on the upgrades and condition), but what I do know is that the armies that currently possess vehicles to be exchanged in this way will overvalue them. There is bound to be initial disagreement on a fair exchange rate, and that could cause a delay like the one Germany is having.

The Marder issue in Germany is that the vehicles would have to come from our army's active inventory. The vehicles that would be given to Ukraine now could only be replaced sometime next year by a number of Marders that are currently undergoing refurbishment at Rheinmetall. Our defence minister argues that Germany couldn't fulfill its NATO commitments with such a temporary hole gaping in the army's inventory and therefore refers the question of delivering Marders to Ukraine to NATO itself.

That is probably the main issue, but the same underlying problem of international coordination exists. If others were prepared to put armoured vehicles in Germany until its refurbished Marders were ready, its active fleet could be sent to wherever without any worry about commitments (although sending Marders might not be the best decision).

Moreover, if the Marders were sent to Ukraine, they’d probably be at least half as effective as they would be in a land war between Germany and Russia. Against which other country would Germany need to maintain its defence commitments? If none, then the Marders would still be providing their defence commitments if they were given to Ukraine. The failure to connect national security to international security is what gives rise to this concern, assuming it’s a legitimate one and not an excuse.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

In this case the pollster gave people a way to weasel out by providing them with "moderate" options. In yesterday's poll it was 50% for gas embargo and 42% against with no middleground option provided.

[Cassius]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

That’s people for you. Fact is most ordinary people don’t have much in the way of spare cash to burn for the sake of Ukraine.

[Person Man]

A NYT article via yahoo (thus free to read) on the Russian shift to the East, the loss of the A team and how they're trying to scrap up troops and mercs for the Eastern push

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-recruiting-mercenaries-syrians-ukraine-115514041.html

At the risk of being too glib for an actual war, it almost feels like the plot for "Blazing Saddles"  when every villain in the West (and then some) was signed up to attack Rock Ridge.   It's a pity that the Ukrainians can't build a fake town for the Russians to attack, because they might actually fall for it.

I kept saying this war felt like something from some sort of Children's Show but Blazing Saddlers is at least as good of an analogy.

[Cassius]

A NYT article via yahoo (thus free to read) on the Russian shift to the East, the loss of the A team and how they're trying to scrap up troops and mercs for the Eastern push

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-recruiting-mercenaries-syrians-ukraine-115514041.html

At the risk of being too glib for an actual war, it almost feels like the plot for "Blazing Saddles"  when every villain in the West (and then some) was signed up to attack Rock Ridge.   It's a pity that the Ukrainians can't build a fake town for the Russians to attack, because they might actually fall for it.

I kept saying this war felt like something from some sort of Children's Show but Blazing Saddlers is at least as good of an analogy.

Having a Methodist contingent in a Russian army would certainly be a novel addition.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Oligarch is breaking formation



https://twitter.com/WSJecon/status/1512422736072695809


https://twitter.com/AluGerMan/status/1512423865061974022

[Sir Mohamed]

Japan joining Biden Admin and Europeans for more sanctions.

https://twitter.com/axios/status/1512411598316572676

[DavidB.]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

[Person Man]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

I totally agree on the second point. In fact, this is a great opportunity to revive the Nuclear Industry.

[Middle-aged Europe]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

Well, Anton Hofreiter has repeatedly called for a gas embargo and he's a (formerly leading) Green. Other than that I haven't really noticed that the likelihood that you're gonna push for a gas embargo is dependent on your own party affiliation though. Possible exception is the AfD who coincidentally is both the most pro-nuclear party but also the most anti-sanctions & pro-Putin party in Germany and therefore also the least likeliest to call for a gas embargo. But that's where we enter a bit of a separate string of discussion because the AfD's nuclear stance is probably in part intended to troll/own the Greens as is their Russia/Ukraine stance motivated by their desire to have a leader (one might say Führrer) similar to Putin in Germany who would rule the country with brutal force.

And of course coal plants must be shut down, at least for those among us who want to see our civilization survive into the next century. Personally I would probably find reentering nuclear energy in theory acceptable at this point, except for the tiny issue that we have only three remaning plants who are in the process of being shut down. Would potentially be a long-term solution, since it requires the construction of entirely new power plants.

[KaiserDave]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

[pppolitics]

https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1512344907624632325
https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1512352918900461571
https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1512432645778591747

[Logical]

Lol. Sanctions, what are they good for?
https://twitter.com/Rory_Johnston/status/1512415418086002698

[Tintrlvr]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

That’s people for you. Fact is most ordinary people don’t have much in the way of spare cash to burn for the sake of Ukraine.

Well, 65% are apparently unaffected personally by rising costs, so *shrug*

[It’s so Joever]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

Well, Anton Hofreiter has repeatedly called for a gas embargo and he's a (formerly leading) Green. Other than that I haven't really noticed that the likelihood that you're gonna push for a gas embargo is dependent on your own party affiliation though. Possible exception is the AfD who coincidentally is both the most pro-nuclear party but also the most anti-sanctions & pro-Putin party in Germany and therefore also the least likeliest to call for a gas embargo. But that's where we enter a bit of a separate string of discussion because the AfD's nuclear stance is probably in part intended to troll/own the Greens as is their Russia/Ukraine stance motivated by their desire to have a leader (one might say Führrer) similar to Putin in Germany who would rule the country with brutal force.

And of course coal plants must be shut down, at least for those among us who want to see our civilization survive into the next century. Personally I would probably find reentering nuclear energy in theory acceptable at this point, except for the tiny issue that we have only three remaning plants who are in the process of being shut down. Would potentially be a long-term solution, since it requires the construction of entirely new power plants.

The rhetoric about our civilization not surviving due to climate change is a bit extreme. Indeed millions will be thrown into food insecurity, there will be far more disease and the World will be a less great place to live…but it isn’t like if we don’t shut down every coal plant that the world just stops in 2030/2040/2050 etc.

[BlueSwan]

Speaking of which... new polling numbers from Germany (Forschungsgruppe Wahlen for ZDF, released today) are available.


Opinion on further intensifying sanctions on Russia
Support 77%
Oppose 18%
Don't know 5%

Opinion on stopping oil and gas imports from Russia
Immediately, even if it leads to shortages 28%
Only when the energy supply is secured 54%
No embargo at all 14%

Is the German government doing enough to make the country independent of of Russian oil and gas?
Yes 37%
No 52%
Don't know 11%

Opinion on temporary speed limit on highways to reduce fuel consumption
Support 25%
Support a permanent speed limit 50%
Oppose 24%

Increasing costs and prices are is in many areas a big problem for the wealth in Germany
Yes 73%
No 26%

It is a problem for me personally
Yes 34%
No 65%

The aid Ukraine is receiving from Germany is...
Appropriate 50%
Too little 37%
Too much 7%
Don't know 6%

Can Germany handle the many refugees from Ukraine?
Yes 84%
No 12%

So this isn’t unique to Germany, but 82% ban Russian gas imports, 72% but not if it affects my life in any way makes me want to tear my hair out.

That’s people for you. Fact is most ordinary people don’t have much in the way of spare cash to burn for the sake of Ukraine.

Well, 65% are apparently unaffected personally by rising costs, so *shrug*

Yes. Regardless of the fact that some people on here like to pretend that the working class or middle class is "suffering", that is mostly a ridiculous statement. Most working class/middle class people in northwestern Europe have solid personal finances, and while the current price hikes sucks, it is pretty far from economic disasterous for very many at all.

[DavidB.]

Yes. Regardless of the fact that some people on here like to pretend that the working class or middle class is "suffering", that is mostly a ridiculous statement. Most working class/middle class people in northwestern Europe have solid personal finances, and while the current price hikes sucks, it is pretty far from economic disasterous for very many at all.

I'm sure this will be a very popular political message.

[Person Man]

We should absolutely welcome all (real, actual) Ukrainian refugees, send as much military aid to Ukraine as possible, and phase out Russian energy asap. I fully support it. But politicians aiming to boycott Russian oil and gas right now better have a backup option on offer.

As long as the political will isn't there to use perfectly viable backup options - our existing coal and nuclear plants which have been scaled off or shut down completely for the sake of the climate heresy (in the case of coal) and for an even dumber scare campaign that actually left us more dependent on Russia (in the case of nuclear) - it is perverse to call for immediate boycotts: it will make sure millions of Europeans descend into energy poverty. But not the stunning and brave green/liberal politicians calling for the boycott, of course.

Well, Anton Hofreiter has repeatedly called for a gas embargo and he's a (formerly leading) Green. Other than that I haven't really noticed that the likelihood that you're gonna push for a gas embargo is dependent on your own party affiliation though. Possible exception is the AfD who coincidentally is both the most pro-nuclear party but also the most anti-sanctions & pro-Putin party in Germany and therefore also the least likeliest to call for a gas embargo. But that's where we enter a bit of a separate string of discussion because the AfD's nuclear stance is probably in part intended to troll/own the Greens as is their Russia/Ukraine stance motivated by their desire to have a leader (one might say Führrer) similar to Putin in Germany who would rule the country with brutal force.

And of course coal plants must be shut down, at least for those among us who want to see our civilization survive into the next century. Personally I would probably find reentering nuclear energy in theory acceptable at this point, except for the tiny issue that we have only three remaning plants who are in the process of being shut down. Would potentially be a long-term solution, since it requires the construction of entirely new power plants.

The rhetoric about our civilization not surviving due to climate change is a bit extreme. Indeed millions will be thrown into food insecurity, there will be far more disease and the World will be a less great place to live…but it isn’t like if we don’t shut down every coal plant that the world just stops in 2030/2040/2050 etc.

Like nuclear war, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle though we don't really have any real data to work with. Global Warming this fast has never happened before. Nuclear war has never happened before.