Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://thehill.com/policy/international/3894376-congress-wants-to-label-wagner-group-as-a-terrorist-organization-why-is-biden-opposed/

"Congress wants to label Wagner group as a terrorist organization. Why is Biden opposed?"

Expert analyses have tied the Wagner group’s activities to countries including Sudan, Libya, the Central African Republic, Mozambique, Mali, Burkina Faso, Cameroon and Chad. The private security company is often used as a supplement force for those countries’ weak militaries.

“[The State Department] is concerned that if suddenly the FTO designation lands on Wagner, that those governments, where there’s various officials that deal with them [Wagner], that they would all, immediately be blocked from travel to the United States and have their assets seized for coming into contact with the FTO. So that’s the nature of their concern,” the aide said.

Good for Biden for being opposed.

[Storr]

Avdiivka update:

https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1635345197176614912?s=20

Except for Bakhmut, this appears to be the most active area along the frontline.

[Storr]

The Russian "imperial consciousness" is the cause of the war, not NATO expansion:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1635303452950626307?s=20

Meanwhile in Russia:

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1635257598504243202?s=20

[Woody]

Aviation is what is helping the Russians in Avdiivka. They're also using heavy gliding bombs here too. Very precise bombs.

In general, the Russian Air Force has been stepping up it's sorties and recon these last weeks.

I heard a take that since Ukraine is assimilating more for NATO tech/doctrine, it's S-300 and other Soviet ground based air defense is starting to dwindle (Except a few Norwegian NASAMS deliveries and Patriots), and NATO's doctrine is more about air-to-air power, which Ukraine can't do as it lacks the means to establish air power. Not to mention no initiative by the West to deliver their own fighter jets.

https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1635260680264622081
https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1635233722743291907

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

So much for the deluded fantasy that India is buying Russian oil out of solidarity...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/oil-gas/india-to-ensure-no-breach-on-russia-oil-purchase-sanctions/articleshow/98585193.cms

...or the even more deluded fantasy that the Global South is a unified and cohesive anti-western bloc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/india-russia-china-yuan-idAFL4N35K0HZ

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

Ok why do you believe the systematic mass murder and deportation of Ukrainians behind an arbitrary line is in Brazil or I’m sorry ‘the Global South’’s self interest?

[2952-0-0]

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

No, of course not. Indians have always been world-renowned for haggling, so they aren't making decisions based on friendship or feelings. The fact that the Indian government calculated that it was the best course of action to order its buyers to buy Russian oil at a price cap the western countries imposed, which effectively forces the Russians to sell the oil at barely any profit, means they're happy to let the Russians suffer if they save some foreign exchange. The fact that the Indian government ordered its buyers not to use Chinese Yuan to buy Russian oil out of distrust of China - and directed them to use what is effectively a sovereign-backed US Dollar-based stablecoin instead - also means they would rather perpetuate US financial hegemony than enjoy whatever benefit that might exist with trading in Chinese Yuan. Nothing wrong with that, but it disproves any notion that the Global South is coalescing around Russia in its fight against western hegemony.

As for that map that showed that most people in many developing countries have a favourable view of the US - that's fine. Many of them also have a favourable view of Russia, China, France, India, or whatever other country. But if that's the case, wouldn't any government that claims to be democratic be working hard to improve relations with all the countries their citizens have a favourable opinion of? If they actually did so, then it would ironically become more difficult for a small number of wealthy countries to assert their will on the rest of the world. It would, of course, also make wars like the one we're discussing here, more difficult to justify.

I also find it incredibly arrogant to refer to "powerless average people" as if elite barons in their Mercedes were referring to the street vendors they pass, while not entirely falsely accusing the western countries of imposing hegemony on the world.

I wasn't the one who brought up the idea of morality or friends on this thread, and I don't think someone who dismisses public opinion in developing countries as "powerless average people" is at all qualified to complain about western hegemony.

[2952-0-0]

BTW, was not the sanctions suppose to destroy the Russian banking system?   It seems like it is the other way around.

So if the US's tough-on-Russia stance led to the failure of some US banks connected to the tech and crypto bubbles, wouldn't that mean China's no-limits friendship with Russia led to the collapse of numerous Chinese banks, whose protesting customers were beaten up by Party-sent thugs and whose phones were given red QR codes?

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

[Cassius]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

That was a cracking scene in all fairness.

[Hindsight was 2020]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

Hey I think I post enough here to be included in the group as the counter balance lol

[Woody]

BBC - Ukraine war: Life in Mariupol under Russian occupation

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64887890

Russian forces put the people of Mariupol through a horrific months-long siege, before finally capturing it last May.

I eventually found three residents willing to speak to me at length: a local city councillor, a retired pensioner and an engineer. All spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing reprisals from the local authorities installed by Russia (who block access to occupied Ukraine by Western journalists).

They paint a picture of a massively expensive campaign conducted by Russia to win over the hearts and minds of the people of Mariupol, and rebuild a city damaged beyond recognition by Russia's own troops.

It is difficult to estimate the exact number of people killed as a result of the relentless shelling of Mariupol, but Ukrainian authorities say more than 20,000 died there.

Russian-installed authorities in Mariupol say some 300,000 people are now living there.

Oleg Morgun, the Russia-installed "mayor" of Mariupol, says some 70,000 of those currently in the city are construction workers and members of the Russian military.

"It says on the bus: St Petersburg and Mariupol are twinned cities. There are slogans everywhere telling us that we're part of Russia now," pensioner Maria (not her real name) told me.

"I liked things the way they used to be. Now we live in fear. We have no idea what to expect."

In the houses that escaped relatively unscathed after months of fierce fighting, the Russians are replacing windows, radiators and sometimes heating and sewage pipes.

Heating, running water and electricity supplies have largely been restored. Buses are running and full of passengers again, although the electric trolley bus and tram networks are still out of action.

Many schools, hospitals and shops have reopened as well, although numerous traders are selling their wares straight from the pavement.

Maria was particularly impressed with one school rebuilt under Russian rule: "It's so beautiful, covered in multi-coloured squares." According to her, the number of children in Mariupol now is greater than schools can currently accommodate, so they have classes in two shifts: one in the morning, and another in the afternoon.

There are other important ways in which Russia is putting its stamp on Mariupol.

For example, local residents are under pressure to obtain Russian passports.

Mariupol is also becoming part of Russia's financial system. The Ukrainian currency, the hryvnya, has been phased out, and now the Russian rouble is the only currency accepted in shops.

Russia is channelling huge amounts of money into pension payments for residents of Mariupol, raising them in many cases compared with what they received from the Ukrainian authorities before the war. So residents of Mariupol are able to draw two pensions - one from Russia, another from Ukraine. Naturally, it is a situation many local pensioners are happy with.

Many current residents of Mariupol are there because they were unable to leave the city when the Russians attacked, due to illness or old age, or because they welcome Russia's presence.

"We've suffered enough under Ukraine. Now we can breathe again," one social media user told me, before breaking off all contact.

"I'm sick of all the propaganda in the papers. They started publishing it from day one, telling us how well things are going," said Yuri, the engineer (not his real name). "I feel out of place in my own city now. People are different, my city feels different now."

[Red Velvet]

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

No, of course not. Indians have always been world-renowned for haggling, so they aren't making decisions based on friendship or feelings. The fact that the Indian government calculated that it was the best course of action to order its buyers to buy Russian oil at a price cap the western countries imposed, which effectively forces the Russians to sell the oil at barely any profit, means they're happy to let the Russians suffer if they save some foreign exchange. The fact that the Indian government ordered its buyers not to use Chinese Yuan to buy Russian oil out of distrust of China - and directed them to use what is effectively a sovereign-backed US Dollar-based stablecoin instead - also means they would rather perpetuate US financial hegemony than enjoy whatever benefit that might exist with trading in Chinese Yuan. Nothing wrong with that, but it disproves any notion that the Global South is coalescing around Russia in its fight against western hegemony.

Depends on what you consider “siding with Russia” because the meaning of that seems to change around here depending on what’s more convenient.

I’m tired of hearing here that neutrality is impossible in this situation of aggression and that it is by default a “Pro-Russia” position. But when it’s undeniably pointed the neutrality of global south countries in this conflict, you shift the narrative to Global South isn’t getting behind Russia because they’re neutral, it’s “only business” as you mention for India.

You can only pick one narrative without entering a contradiction. If western leaders weren’t concerned about where the global south stands in this this conflict, you wouldn’t hear the stuff that leaders like Macron talk very publicly about here:

https://www.twitter.com/FromSteveHowell/status/1627396580780257281

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

No, of course not. Indians have always been world-renowned for haggling, so they aren't making decisions based on friendship or feelings. The fact that the Indian government calculated that it was the best course of action to order its buyers to buy Russian oil at a price cap the western countries imposed, which effectively forces the Russians to sell the oil at barely any profit, means they're happy to let the Russians suffer if they save some foreign exchange. The fact that the Indian government ordered its buyers not to use Chinese Yuan to buy Russian oil out of distrust of China - and directed them to use what is effectively a sovereign-backed US Dollar-based stablecoin instead - also means they would rather perpetuate US financial hegemony than enjoy whatever benefit that might exist with trading in Chinese Yuan. Nothing wrong with that, but it disproves any notion that the Global South is coalescing around Russia in its fight against western hegemony.

Depends on what you consider “siding with Russia” because the meaning of that seems to change around here depending on what’s more convenient.

I’m tired of hearing here that neutrality is impossible in this situation of aggression and that it is by default a “Pro-Russia” position. But when it’s undeniably pointed the neutrality of global south countries in this conflict, you shift the narrative to Global South isn’t getting behind Russia because they’re neutral, it’s “only business” as you mention for India.

You can only pick one narrative without entering a contradiction. If western leaders weren’t concerned about where the global south stands in this this conflict, you wouldn’t hear the stuff that leaders like Macron talk very publicly about here:

https://www.twitter.com/FromSteveHowell/status/1627396580780257281

Macron is also a f@cking idiot with the political instincts of a demented walrus.

[Storr]

"Although my views may differ from those of some government officials, I'd like to express some cautionary thoughts regarding the upcoming offensive.

While I remain hopeful and committed to achieving victory, I believe it's important to temper our expectations and avoid the assumption that the war will end quickly as a result of one counter-offensive. A realistic approach that takes into account the challenges that we might face.

Even though Ukraine has received substantial support from the West, it's still only enough to sustain few large offensives. Even if Ukraine successfully clears the entire southern region, it won't necessarily resolve the ongoing issues with Donbas or Crimea. The fall of one area doesn't guarantee the fall of the other.

It's important to recognize that the Russian forces are actively preparing for the upcoming counter-offensive, and we shouldn't underestimate their capabilities.

Rather than making optimistic statements about how the war will end soon, it's more realistic to be prepared for a potentially prolonged conflict. We should also communicate this to our allies, so they can adjust their expectations and support accordingly.

While I remain hopeful and committed to achieving victory, I believe it's important to temper our expectations and avoid the assumption that the war will end quickly as a result of this counter-offensive.

Everyone in Ukraine is grateful for the support we receive from the West, including from both governments and society, but I believe that we need much more to finish this war. This goes beyond just the provision of ammunition and military equipment, as important as those are.

In addition to expanding training programs, we must prioritize efforts to improve our command and control structure. This includes sending our reserve officers to the best military schools to enhance their skills. We need to focus not just on improving the command abilities of NCOs and junior officers, but also those at the brigade level and above.

I plan to release a breakdown of the analysis made by Lieutenant Colonel Glen Grant in his article on the necessary changes for our army to remain modern and successful.

Finally, I would rather hear that the war has ended sooner than expected, even if it means admitting that my previous predictions were incorrect, than to hear that my advice could have made a difference if only it had been heeded earlier."

https://twitter.com/Tatarigami_UA/status/1635344489106513922?s=20

[Hindsight was 2020]

https://mobile.twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1635426158903803904

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

That said, if we do have to have a settlement, I would think Russia gets Crimea and Dontesk but pays a f@ck ton of money to Ukraine, who then get fast-track NATO/EU access. Russians can spin it as a win and the Ukrainians can recover faster.

[gerritcole]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

would you prefer a one sided pro ukraine narrative? whether you agree with those posters or not they provide an idealogical counterpoint that is quite present in the world but underrepresented in the english speaking internet

[KaiserDave]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

would you prefer a one sided pro ukraine narrative? whether you agree with those posters or not they provide an idealogical counterpoint that is quite present in the world but underrepresented in the english speaking internet

If by “ideological counterpoint” you mean “tiresome, repetitive, and uninteresting nonsense” then sure

[Hindsight was 2020]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

would you prefer a one sided pro ukraine narrative? whether you agree with those posters or not they provide an idealogical counterpoint that is quite present in the world but underrepresented in the english speaking internet

Russia launched an unprovoked war on Ukraine driven by imperialist interests And committed war crimes on the locals, we don’t need an idealogical counterpoint in favor of the side committing crimes against humanity. Also it’s not like we get any good insight from it between Woodbury spamming about Bakmut nonstop for the near 8 months the battle has been going on while ignoring and downplaying any pro Ukraine developments or Jaichind posting for the billionth time an article promoting the idea the West is doing worse economically than Russia over the war; they don’t bring anything useful to the table.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

would you prefer a one sided pro ukraine narrative? whether you agree with those posters or not they provide an idealogical counterpoint that is quite present in the world but underrepresented in the english speaking internet

If this was the first time my nuanced perspective was attacked, I might jump at the chance to defend myself. Now, I tend to just laugh at the humor of seeing the misconstruing from people who post dumb things about what I think either because they don't understand, or don't want to understand, where I'm coming from.
Oh well. I think I'm closest to Beet or Torie in my overall philosophy on these sorts of things, but whatever. Some people let their emotions control them rather than vice versa. So is life. Even I've been there.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

BBC - Ukraine war: Life in Mariupol under Russian occupation

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64887890

Russian forces put the people of Mariupol through a horrific months-long siege, before finally capturing it last May.

I eventually found three residents willing to speak to me at length: a local city councillor, a retired pensioner and an engineer. All spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing reprisals from the local authorities installed by Russia (who block access to occupied Ukraine by Western journalists).

They paint a picture of a massively expensive campaign conducted by Russia to win over the hearts and minds of the people of Mariupol, and rebuild a city damaged beyond recognition by Russia's own troops.

It is difficult to estimate the exact number of people killed as a result of the relentless shelling of Mariupol, but Ukrainian authorities say more than 20,000 died there.

Russian-installed authorities in Mariupol say some 300,000 people are now living there.

Oleg Morgun, the Russia-installed "mayor" of Mariupol, says some 70,000 of those currently in the city are construction workers and members of the Russian military.

"It says on the bus: St Petersburg and Mariupol are twinned cities. There are slogans everywhere telling us that we're part of Russia now," pensioner Maria (not her real name) told me.

"I liked things the way they used to be. Now we live in fear. We have no idea what to expect."

In the houses that escaped relatively unscathed after months of fierce fighting, the Russians are replacing windows, radiators and sometimes heating and sewage pipes.

Heating, running water and electricity supplies have largely been restored. Buses are running and full of passengers again, although the electric trolley bus and tram networks are still out of action.

Many schools, hospitals and shops have reopened as well, although numerous traders are selling their wares straight from the pavement.

Maria was particularly impressed with one school rebuilt under Russian rule: "It's so beautiful, covered in multi-coloured squares." According to her, the number of children in Mariupol now is greater than schools can currently accommodate, so they have classes in two shifts: one in the morning, and another in the afternoon.

There are other important ways in which Russia is putting its stamp on Mariupol.

For example, local residents are under pressure to obtain Russian passports.

Mariupol is also becoming part of Russia's financial system. The Ukrainian currency, the hryvnya, has been phased out, and now the Russian rouble is the only currency accepted in shops.

Russia is channelling huge amounts of money into pension payments for residents of Mariupol, raising them in many cases compared with what they received from the Ukrainian authorities before the war. So residents of Mariupol are able to draw two pensions - one from Russia, another from Ukraine. Naturally, it is a situation many local pensioners are happy with.

Many current residents of Mariupol are there because they were unable to leave the city when the Russians attacked, due to illness or old age, or because they welcome Russia's presence.

"We've suffered enough under Ukraine. Now we can breathe again," one social media user told me, before breaking off all contact.

"I'm sick of all the propaganda in the papers. They started publishing it from day one, telling us how well things are going," said Yuri, the engineer (not his real name). "I feel out of place in my own city now. People are different, my city feels different now."

This is a interesting window into the civilian-related parts of the psychology of war. Thank you for sharing.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

EVERY POST IN THIS THREAD:

Woodbury: posts tweets that show Ukraine is in a bad state
Jaichind: posts some random economic figures that mean nothing
RedVelvet: mentions how one of the random economic figures means the """GLOBAL SOUTH""" is turning on the West
TimTurner: post tweet about something nice the Russians did or does a 'both sides bad' equivocation

This thread has just turned into a circle jerk between these four clowns who get off on the scene in The Man In The High Castle where they blow up the Statue of Liberty.

would you prefer a one sided pro ukraine narrative? whether you agree with those posters or not they provide an idealogical counterpoint that is quite present in the world but underrepresented in the english speaking internet

My problem with Woodbury, Jaichind, and RedVelvet isn't the fact that they post their pro-Russia stuff here, but the fact that they are ignorant clowns with their heads up their asses who post dozens of times per day with repetitive takes that make the thread unreadable (since pro-Ukraine posters will reply to them).

[Red Velvet]

So much for the deluded fantasy that India is buying Russian oil out of solidarity...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/oil-gas/india-to-ensure-no-breach-on-russia-oil-purchase-sanctions/articleshow/98585193.cms

...or the even more deluded fantasy that the Global South is a unified and cohesive anti-western bloc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/india-russia-china-yuan-idAFL4N35K0HZ

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

Ok why do you believe the systematic mass murder and deportation of Ukrainians behind an arbitrary line is in Brazil or I’m sorry ‘the Global South’’s self interest?

I don’t know, you tell me? You people are the ones saying everyone with a neutral position is a Russia/Putin lover that really wants Russia to win! So enlighten me.

From my perspective, what the West is doing economically as a response to Russia is what cannot be allowed to succeed. Otherwise it gives them power and validation to do the exact same, or worse, to much smaller nations. Which is not in the Global South interest since the world trade order and economic institutions are already biased in favor of Western interests, working under a logic of exploitation.

See the Indians still adopting this position of unshakable commitment to the global south even if not buying “moral arguments” from Lavrov. People know why they have the positions they have and that’s what scares some people here because years of Western xenophobic domestic propaganda clearly made some people believe they’re the informed ones while non-Westerners are ignorant and led by outside propaganda to “hate the West” or something. People know what they’re doing.

Whatever happens with Ukraine, whether they kick out Russians from their country or Russia takes over, doesn’t really matter to me, or most people outside Europe if we’re honests. It’s their conflict and their interests on the table, it shouldn’t be expected for people outside to care just because they’re European and white. Those times where Europe problems belong to the world but World problems don’t belong to Europe are gone.

And regardless of what the final outcome is, the Global South already scored the victory by showing to the West they cannot simply cut countries out from the global economy according as it politically pleases them. Russia can lose because of strong Ukrainian military response, definitely not because of economic sanctions - which is clearly the point the West flopped and failed to reach their goals in this war.

The sudden concern of Western leaders to get Global South support already reflects this win. They’ve been shown they don’t control the world as if they were its owners at the very least and will need to get their asses out of their chairs and do some work to get others support if they really want to achieve their goals. Automatic alignment does not exist in the new multipolar world.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

hypercapitalist, decaying, and morally/culturally stagnant

But enough about Scarsdale.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/12/biden-united-states-ukraine-relationship-cracks-00086654

"Little fissures’: The U.S.-Ukraine war unity is slowly cracking apart"

It was written on the wall with this trash guy Zelenskyy being a chihuahua acting like a pitbull, only because they are on a leash. And a bunch of people validating this attitude which started even before the war.

It absolutely didn't. Zelensky downplayed the threat of invasion until the last possible minute, both because his policy instincts are not actually good outside total war conditions (cf. Churchill, Sir Winston Leonard Spencer, political career of, passim) and because he was on the relatively pro-Russian side of pre-2022 Ukrainian politics (the actual pro-Russians having been marginal since 2014). For the first several hours of the pre-dawn aerial bombardment that the invasion started with it wasn't even clear whether or not Zelensky had fled the country, much less clear that he was going to spend the next year nonupling down on Inspiring Wartime Leader LARP (which is the same thing as actually being an Inspiring Wartime Leader, of course; see ibid.). His current persona was adopted lock, stock, and barrel out of immediate necessity, over a period of about a fortnight around this time last year. But why let facts get in the way of a good story?

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

So much for the deluded fantasy that India is buying Russian oil out of solidarity...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/energy/oil-gas/india-to-ensure-no-breach-on-russia-oil-purchase-sanctions/articleshow/98585193.cms

...or the even more deluded fantasy that the Global South is a unified and cohesive anti-western bloc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/india-russia-china-yuan-idAFL4N35K0HZ

Why does it matter to you WHY India is buying Russian oil? The fact is that they are buying tons of it and that is great to give Russia a way out of the sanctions!

What is exactly that you’re bragging about? Uhh India is helping Russia but it’s not because they like like Russia, they still like us better. Is international geopolitics like middle school to you people or something?

It’s so fascinating to see how most people here tend to frame everything under a morality or friends logic lmao. The other dude was posting some irrelevant map about what powerless average people abroad think of the US.

Newsflash: there isn’t morality OR true “friendship” in geopolitics. Everyone is driven by their self-interests. They can be directed towards different things simultaneously and sometimes may be even misguided internal strategies, but no ones does anything only because they have more personal friendship with one country more than they have with another.

Ok why do you believe the systematic mass murder and deportation of Ukrainians behind an arbitrary line is in Brazil or I’m sorry ‘the Global South’’s self interest?

I don’t know, you tell me? You people are the ones saying everyone with a neutral position is a Russia/Putin lover that really wants Russia to win! So enlighten me.

From my perspective, what the West is doing economically as a response to Russia is what cannot be allowed to succeed. Otherwise it gives them power and validation to do the exact same, or worse, to much smaller nations. Which is not in the Global South interest since the world trade order and economic institutions are already biased in favor of Western interests, working under a logic of exploitation.

See the Indians still adopting this position of unshakable commitment to the global south even if not buying “moral arguments” from Lavrov. People know why they have the positions they have and that’s what scares some people here because years of Western xenophobic domestic propaganda clearly made some people believe they’re the informed ones while non-Westerners are ignorant and led by outside propaganda to “hate the West” or something. People know what they’re doing.

Whatever happens with Ukraine, whether they kick out Russians from their country or Russia takes over, doesn’t really matter to me, or most people outside Europe if we’re honests. It’s their conflict and their interests on the table, it shouldn’t be expected for people outside to care just because they’re European and white. Those times where Europe problems belong to the world but World problems don’t belong to Europe are gone.

And regardless of what the final outcome is, the Global South already scored the victory by showing to the West they cannot simply cut countries out from the global economy according as it politically pleases them. Russia can lose because of strong Ukrainian military response, definitely not because of economic sanctions - which is clearly the point the West flopped and failed to reach their goals in this war.

The sudden concern of Western leaders to get Global South support already reflects this win. They’ve been shown they don’t control the world as if they were its owners at the very least and will need to get their asses out of their chairs and do some work to get others support if they really want to achieve their goals. Automatic alignment does not exist in the new multipolar world.

What do you say to the fact that the Global South has a higher view of America than the Global North?