Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Alben Barkley]

Yes, this is good.  Putin won't bat an eye at sending others to their deaths, but there's a better chance he was some sense of self-preservation.  A guarantee that he, personally, will die if he tries to order a nuclear strike might be more compelling for him than a promise of a declaration of war.  Laying out the consequences very clearly ahead of time is a good idea.  The goal, after all, is to deter Putin from using WMDs, not baiting him into it.

I knew we had people "deep in the heart of the Kremlin" just waiting for the activation order. I would have been deeply disappointed and disturbed if we didn't. It's comforting to know that if Putin goes there, retaliation against him personally will be swift and brutal. Of course these reports will surely also fuel his paranoia and make his table grow all that much longer... but it doesn't matter that much in the end. Fact is if the US/CIA wants you dead, they'll find a way to make it happen!

[Alben Barkley]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with. Truman was wiping one of the most evil regimes to ever exist off the face of the planet, and saving lives in the long run. Putin would be escalating a pointless, aggressive conflict in which HE is the clear bad guy and murdering even more people for no good reason whatsoever. He is Hitler in this scenario. Not Truman.

Disgusting, disgraceful comparison. If it were up to me you'd have your American citizenship stripped for it!

And your second point assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler and kill themselves in the process (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

[Beet]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with.

Disgusting.

And that assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

They might not, but they might. Or it might escalate in other ways. It's a roll of the dice and making that kind of gamble is a tad reckless, to put it mildly.

[Alben Barkley]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with.

Disgusting.

And that assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

They might not, but they might. Or it might escalate in other ways. It's a roll of the dice and making that kind of gamble is a tad reckless, to put it mildly.

Oh but it's not a "tad reckless" to invade a neighboring country for fascist reasons and then to deploy nukes first yourself?

What would you do, bend over and let Putin f--k you and everyone else on Earth he wanted to in the ass?

Thank GOD you're not in charge!

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The risk is absolutely worth it.

[Virginiá]

Surrender time in Lyman as Ukrainians broadcast message to encircled Russians

https://twitter.com/INTobservers/status/1576018980976095232

[Beet]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with.

Disgusting.

And that assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

They might not, but they might. Or it might escalate in other ways. It's a roll of the dice and making that kind of gamble is a tad reckless, to put it mildly.

Oh but it's not a "tad reckless" to invade a neighboring country for fascist reasons and then to deploy nukes first yourself?

What would you do, bend over and let Putin f--k you and everyone else on Earth he wanted to in the ass?

Thank GOD you're not in charge!

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The risk is absolutely worth it.

Thank GOD in all caps the guy who's saying nuclear war might be a tad reckless isn't in charge? I assure you the people actually in charge are not looking for the thing you're emotionally braying for on an internet forum late on Friday night.

If you want to die on your feet go for it, but don't drag millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with this into it. Also I notice your avatar says Kentucky and not Ukraine.

[Beet]

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

[Alben Barkley]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with.

Disgusting.

And that assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

They might not, but they might. Or it might escalate in other ways. It's a roll of the dice and making that kind of gamble is a tad reckless, to put it mildly.

Oh but it's not a "tad reckless" to invade a neighboring country for fascist reasons and then to deploy nukes first yourself?

What would you do, bend over and let Putin f--k you and everyone else on Earth he wanted to in the ass?

Thank GOD you're not in charge!

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees. The risk is absolutely worth it.

Thank GOD in all caps the guy who's saying nuclear war might be a tad reckless isn't in charge? I assure you the people actually in charge are not looking for the thing you're emotionally braying for on an internet forum late on Friday night.

If you want to die on your feet go for it, but don't drag millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with this into it. Also I notice your avatar says Kentucky and not Ukraine.

My avatar says Kentucky, because that was where I was born and raised and live. But my heart is in Ukraine, and anywhere else where democracy fights tyranny. I've studied history, unlike you -- CLEARLY -- far too much to do anything else. You let one domino fall, they ALL will. Today it's Ukraine. Tomorrow it's Poland, then the Baltic states, then Finland, etc. A madman bent on conquest and domination and threatening nuclear holocaust WILL NOT STOP here. History is CLEAR on that like NOTHING else. And HE, Putin, is the bad guy. Period. Blaming the people who dare to want to stop him more than you attack the evil fascist aggressive dictator himself is textbook victim-blaming and appeasement.

And it appears the people in charge ARE in fact looking to kill Putin if he uses nukes. I simply reported that fact. It wasn't my idea, even though yes of course I want it and think it is a more than reasonable response. It was you who made the blood-boiling and nonsensical comparison between Putin and Truman in response. Millions of innocent people are being threatened by Putin. Not me, not Biden or the CIA or anyone else. Putin. Stop carrying water for him and accept that FACT.

[Alben Barkley]

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

Are you 14 years old or younger?

I am dead serious.

Because I have NEVER seen ANYONE with a fully developed or even partially developed brain make the "both sides" fallacious argument in this comically stereotypical a way! If you actually are 14 and under, I'll hold back and put on the kid gloves. If not, you have NO EXCUSE to be this f--king stupid.

Putin is the Hitler/Nazi in this scenario because he is the one waging a fascist if not genocidal war of aggression. That's it. That's literally it. That is ALL there is to it. It does not require a PhD to figure it out. It is not some deep, complex, morally gray thing. He is evil. The West, while imperfect, is not purely evil. It is just that simple sometimes. And now is one of those times. And it's showing who will rise up in the face of evil, and who will bend over for it. Very clearly.

Truman did not "arguably" have less reason to use nukes for anyone over than 14 either. Truman used nukes to save millions of more lives -- American, Japanese, possibly even Russian! -- alike. The Japanese made it very clear they would hold out to the bitter end, and had already suicide bombed our ships en masse and resorted to forcing civilians and children to pick up rifles and fight. They had already committed arguably even more brutal crimes than the Nazis and shown no end to their brutality. The nukes were necessary to shock them into surrender; they were still holding out hope to the bitter end that they could continue their brutal, evil subjugation of China.

Truman firing those nukes not only ensured those people could be liberated from Japanese tyranny, it also saved an estimated upwards of 1 million American soldiers from dying in addition to much of the entire population of Japan -- men, women, and children. We'd already killed more of them in conventional bombings than the nukes ever did. A full scale invasion would have been absolutely devastating. The bombs were a quick, relatively painless end to the worst conflict in history. He did what he had to do.

And Russia ALWAYS has the choice to just STOP attacking a neighbor for NO F--KING REASON. They could do it at ANY time. They are not in some existential war like WW2 was, fighting for their survival. They are in an evil, unjustified war of aggression. They are the ones who decide how long this goes on and how extreme it gets. No one else. Period.

[Beet]

Good god. Everyone is so convinced that they are right. This is what is the scariest thing above all else.

Also, you say you study history yet you're unironically citing the domino theory.

[Torie]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

Yes... Yes it was. And if you are seriously arguing otherwise, you're not the kind of person worth seriously arguing with.

Disgusting.

And that assumes that others left in Russia will fulfill the dying wishes of their madman tyrannical ruler (Hitler's people sure didn't!), unless he has some magic device that fires nukes automatically if his heart stops.

They might not, but they might. Or it might escalate in other ways. It's a roll of the dice and making that kind of gamble is a tad reckless, to put it mildly.

If Putin starts using nukes, there are no good options. The issue becomes what is least bad.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

America was waging a defensive war in World War II so yes, that actually is very different.

[Beet]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

America was waging a defensive war in World War II so yes, that actually is very different.

Initially yes, but not by late 1945. We were on the offensive and looking for total victory, not just a return to prewar borders. Anyway if you ask the Russians they will give you some mental gymnastics about being the "defenders" of people in Donbas. Sure it's a load of crap, but the thing is they are earnest and actually believe it.

[DaleCooper]

Unambiguous talk is essential when responding to belligerent nuclear powers. I would be concerned if the Biden Administration wasn't making it clear that Putin would be killed immediately if he uses any nuclear weapons.

One of the few good things Trump said in the White House was when he made clear that he would annihilate the Kim dynasty of North Korea if he started a nuclear war. Of course brain-rotted liberals were offended by that then and the hypocritical conservatives that supported Trump then will hate Biden for this now, but that's a reflection of American foolishness. In reality, both were correct to respond unambiguously.

Should Harry Truman have been killed? Let me guess, that was different.

Also, all Putin has to do to respond to this is to have a trigger that nukes will fire on the event of his assasination.

America was waging a defensive war in World War II so yes, that actually is very different.

Initially yes, but not by late 1945. We were on the offensive and looking for total victory, not just a return to prewar borders. Anyway if you ask the Russians they will give you some mental gymnastics about being the "defenders" of people in Donbas. Sure it's a load of crap, but the thing is they are earnest and actually believe it.

Lol, why would the Allies have looked for a return to prewar borders? Germany and Japan made it pretty clear that they needed to be occupied and completely disarmed. I don't want to re-litigate the use of the atomic bombs on Japan, because I actually do think that's a totally fair debate to be had, but you're just being silly with all of your comments lately.

[NYDem]

You guys are arguing with Beet? Don’t even bother. Contrarianism at its worst.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Lyman is apparently completely surrounded now. Russian forces can't even retreat.

[Splash]

Alright... can we get this thread back on topic please.

Anyway...

https://twitter.com/Tendar/status/1576023099052785666
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1575989352332607489

[HillGoose]

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

the russkies can literally decide to order their military pack up and leave Ukraine tonight if they want, there's nothing stopping them lmao

thier back isn't against the wall lol no one's even invaded their country

[Beet]

You guys are arguing with Beet? Don’t even bother. Contrarianism at its worst.

But sometimes the "contrarianism" happens to be right. People ganged up on me too over the 2016 election and the early stages of Covid. Assuredly, nuclear war would be worse than both, and it's my prediction it will happen in this century - at the cost of millions of innocents - thanks to the reckless, manichean mentality on display in this thread.

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

the russkies can literally decide to order their military pack up and leave Ukraine tonight if they want, there's nothing stopping them lmao

thier back isn't against the wall lol no one's even invaded their country

If only it was that easy. Putin likely wishes what you wrote were true, but the reality is that if he did, Ukraine would likely join NATO and thered be NATO missiles 5 minutes from Moscow. Worse (from his standpoint), Putin would be in grave danger of being overthrown. And if he were overthrown, he might end up like Ceausescu. That's the problem. You think the West would help him at that point if he pulled troops out and came crawling back begging for forgiveness on his hands and knees? The reality is, if you were in his shoes and valued your life, you wouldn't surrender either. The guy is a cornered animal who happens to have thousands of nukes at his disposal.

It's not cowsboys and Indians like you played when you were five years old, and it's not some Hollywood movie where the orcs aren't even human. Russians are human too, Putin is human, and they all want the same thing normal people do. It's a delicate situation that must be handled. Hopefully resolved without nuclear war. If we can't recognize our common humanity as people then yes, we are headed for big trouble. Maybe bigger than humanity has ever committed on itself.

[HillGoose]

You guys are arguing with Beet? Don’t even bother. Contrarianism at its worst.

But sometimes the "contrarianism" happens to be right. People ganged up on me too over the 2016 election and the early stages of Covid. Assuredly, nuclear war would be worse than both, and it's my prediction it will happen in this century - at the cost of millions of innocents - thanks to the reckless, manichean mentality on display in this thread.

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

the russkies can literally decide to order their military pack up and leave Ukraine tonight if they want, there's nothing stopping them lmao

thier back isn't against the wall lol no one's even invaded their country

If only it was that easy. Putin likely wishes what you wrote were true, but the reality is that if he did, Ukraine would likely join NATO and thered be NATO missiles 5 minutes from Moscow. Worse (from his standpoint), Putin would be in grave danger of being overthrown. And if he were overthrown, he might end up like Ceausescu. That's the problem. You think the West would help him at that point if he pulled troops out and came crawling back begging for forgiveness on his hands and knees? The reality is, if you were in his shoes and valued your life, you wouldn't surrender either. The guy is a cornered animal who happens to have thousands of nukes at his disposal.

It's not cowsboys and Indians like you played when you were five years old, and it's not some Hollywood movie where the orcs aren't even human. Russians are human too, Putin is human, and they all want the same thing normal people do. It's a delicate situation that must be handled. Hopefully resolved around nuclear war. If we can't recognize our common humanity as people then yes, we are headed for big trouble. Maybe bigger than humanity has ever committed on itself.

ok but Putin isn't a human he is a demon from another dimension just like Hitler and Saddam, he needs to be sent back to hell.

[Beet]

You guys are arguing with Beet? Don’t even bother. Contrarianism at its worst.

But sometimes the "contrarianism" happens to be right. People ganged up on me too over the 2016 election and the early stages of Covid. Assuredly, nuclear war would be worse than both, and it's my prediction it will happen in this century - at the cost of millions of innocents - thanks to the reckless, manichean mentality on display in this thread.

The whole point in war is that the two sides disagree on who's evil and the bad guy, and they both call each other Hitler or Nazis.

And arguably, Truman had even less just cause to use nukes bc he could have won the war without them, whereas Russia may feel its back is against the wall and has no other choice. But I don't think they'll do it, and of course it's not justified. They still have plenty of other less extreme options right now. It's bluster.

the russkies can literally decide to order their military pack up and leave Ukraine tonight if they want, there's nothing stopping them lmao

thier back isn't against the wall lol no one's even invaded their country

If only it was that easy. Putin likely wishes what you wrote were true, but the reality is that if he did, Ukraine would likely join NATO and thered be NATO missiles 5 minutes from Moscow. Worse (from his standpoint), Putin would be in grave danger of being overthrown. And if he were overthrown, he might end up like Ceausescu. That's the problem. You think the West would help him at that point if he pulled troops out and came crawling back begging for forgiveness on his hands and knees? The reality is, if you were in his shoes and valued your life, you wouldn't surrender either. The guy is a cornered animal who happens to have thousands of nukes at his disposal.

It's not cowsboys and Indians like you played when you were five years old, and it's not some Hollywood movie where the orcs aren't even human. Russians are human too, Putin is human, and they all want the same thing normal people do. It's a delicate situation that must be handled. Hopefully resolved around nuclear war. If we can't recognize our common humanity as people then yes, we are headed for big trouble. Maybe bigger than humanity has ever committed on itself.

ok but Putin isn't a human he is a demon from another dimension just like Hitler and Saddam, he needs to be sent back to hell.

And I rest my case. That is the point. You have become the very thing you claim to hate.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Yikes, this is quite another blow to Russia.

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1575931937092292608?t=gUed36_35zb7j7LU8dQug...

[Storr]

Meanwhile from CPAC:

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1576032417856778240?s=20&t=hK67qgy...

[HillGoose]

Meanwhile at CPAC:

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1576032417856778240?s=20&t=hK67qgy...

buncha f'in commies these days, wtf happened to the party of kicking ass

[Frodo]

Yikes, this is quite another blow to Russia.

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1575931937092292608?t=gUed36_35zb7j7LU8dQug...

5,500 Russians surrounded at Lyman is what he meant to say, presumably?