Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread
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Author Topic: Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread  (Read 826224 times)
Buffalo Mayor Young Kim
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« Reply #12575 on: July 03, 2022, 02:42:57 PM »

My face when people use Russian speakers as a proxy for Russian collaborators
 
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bilaps
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« Reply #12576 on: July 03, 2022, 02:57:21 PM »

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

NP, I can fix it for you. I'll just have the forum change it automatically before displaying posts. Let me know if you have any other preferences so I can input the opposite into the word filter.

Changing one letter on some God forsaken thread won't change the language which Ukrainians speak. Although it is one of the bigger reasons for the war. Also, it won't change war's outcome.
As others have noted, language is a poor indicator of loyalties in this war anyway. If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

I mean argument about language is pretty silly. Everyone in Ukraine know Russian. Zelensky speaks Russian and some of his statements were even made in Russian. I'm not Russian but for me I only knew one name for Kiev and it changed in the last years. So it's now Kyiv, and Kharkiv and so on. It's especially silly argument regarding regions where people who say that their native language is Russian vastly outnumber people who say it's Ukrainian. I mean I would understand if it's Lviv. But we're talking about region where literaly everyone speaks Russian
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #12577 on: July 03, 2022, 02:58:25 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2022, 03:10:44 PM by Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

NP, I can fix it for you. I'll just have the forum change it automatically before displaying posts. Let me know if you have any other preferences so I can input the opposite into the word filter.

Changing one letter on some God forsaken thread won't change the language which Ukrainians speak. Although it is one of the bigger reasons for the war. Also, it won't change war's outcome.
As others have noted, language is a poor indicator of loyalties in this war anyway. If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

I mean argument about language is pretty silly. Everyone in Ukraine know Russian. Zelensky speaks Russian and some of his statements were even made in Russian. I'm not Russian but for me I only knew one name for Kiev and it changed in the last years. So it's now Kyiv, and Kharkiv and so on. It's especially silly argument regarding regions where people who say that their native language is Russian vastly outnumber people who say it's Ukrainian. I mean I would understand if it's Lviv. But we're talking about region where literaly everyone speaks Russian
This is your brain on modern social media. It is basically an incubator for solutions in search of problems and all sorts of farcical virtue-signaling imaginable.
I for one said Luhansk and Donetsk before this and will do so onwards. And it's a matter of personal preference (understability being a concern as well) or ought to be.
Language is a matter of many shades of grey, not black and white, in this part of the world. Most people have family on both sides of the border and know both Ukrainian and Russian.
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jaichind
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« Reply #12578 on: July 03, 2022, 03:04:13 PM »

India PRC and also Turkey picking up the slack of Russian oil exports by the EU and USA lowering Russian oil imports.  Of course, this was motivated by large Russian discounts but with world oil prices surging since Feb 2022 Russia's oil at a discount most likely fetches equal or greater revenue per barrel for Russia.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #12579 on: July 03, 2022, 03:17:48 PM »

If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

If we are discussing the political implications of nomenclature (about which I have more relaxed views in general than some), that is definitely a name to avoid using.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #12580 on: July 03, 2022, 03:18:55 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2022, 03:35:29 PM by Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »

If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

If we are discussing the political implications of nomenclature (about which I have more relaxed views in general than some), that is definitely a name to avoid using.
Well-established historical term used for sake of convenience? Why give mere words that much power?
EDIT: It's one thing to say "Novorossiya is rightfully Russian and since it's dominated by Russians it belongs to Russia" and another thing to say "[the historical region of] Novorossiya has been the place of considerable fighting between Ukraine and Russian invaders in the present day". Context matters.
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bilaps
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« Reply #12581 on: July 03, 2022, 03:23:21 PM »

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

NP, I can fix it for you. I'll just have the forum change it automatically before displaying posts. Let me know if you have any other preferences so I can input the opposite into the word filter.

Changing one letter on some God forsaken thread won't change the language which Ukrainians speak. Although it is one of the bigger reasons for the war. Also, it won't change war's outcome.
As others have noted, language is a poor indicator of loyalties in this war anyway. If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

I mean argument about language is pretty silly. Everyone in Ukraine know Russian. Zelensky speaks Russian and some of his statements were even made in Russian. I'm not Russian but for me I only knew one name for Kiev and it changed in the last years. So it's now Kyiv, and Kharkiv and so on. It's especially silly argument regarding regions where people who say that their native language is Russian vastly outnumber people who say it's Ukrainian. I mean I would understand if it's Lviv. But we're talking about region where literaly everyone speaks Russian
This is your brain on modern social media. It is basically an incubator for solutions in search of problems and all sorts of farcical virtue-signaling imaginable.
I for one said Luhansk and Donetsk before this and will do so onwards. And it's a matter of personal preference (understability being a concern as well) or ought to be.
Language is a matter of many shades of grey, not black and white, in this part of the world. Most people have family on both sides of the border and know both Ukrainian and Russian.

Funny thing in all of this nonsense is for a second I didn't hesitate when I was typing the name, I mean that's how I pronounce it.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #12582 on: July 03, 2022, 03:41:33 PM »

If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

If we are discussing the political implications of nomenclature (about which I have more relaxed views in general than some), that is definitely a name to avoid using.
Well-established historical term used for sake of convenience? Why give mere words that much power?

No it's not Tim. It has a use in one specific historical context (the colonial policies of Catherine the Great in the late 18th century) and that's it. Using it as a generic term for southern Ukraine and insisting on the historical validity of doing so is like describing central Poland as Wartheland.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #12583 on: July 03, 2022, 04:05:59 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2022, 05:16:50 PM by Southern Delegate and Atlasian AG Punxsutawney Phil »

If it wasn't, then Russia would have all of Novorossiya in its hands by now...

If we are discussing the political implications of nomenclature (about which I have more relaxed views in general than some), that is definitely a name to avoid using.
Well-established historical term used for sake of convenience? Why give mere words that much power?

No it's not Tim. It has a use in one specific historical context (the colonial policies of Catherine the Great in the late 18th century) and that's it. Using it as a generic term for southern Ukraine and insisting on the historical validity of doing so is like describing central Poland as Wartheland.
I had typed and posted a reply to this, but I decided it was not a good use of my time to continue this argument beyond this. So I'll close by saying that I feel I've seen the word used more casually in neutral contexts, but I could be wrong. Context is still necessary to judge what one is trying to communicate, and this is true in a lot of walks of life. Overanalysis and overassuming of things ought to be cautioned against (we all do it in some way probably, the least we can do and try to do it less).
Have a good day Sir.
EDIT: I do want to make clear, I was NOT using it as a general term for "southern Ukraine". I was using it as a term for the region, which I consider a subsection of Southern Ukraine more broadly.
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #12584 on: July 03, 2022, 04:39:29 PM »

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk  Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk

How very mature and considerate of you Smiley

Oh, and classically.......paleoconservative.
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Person Man
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« Reply #12585 on: July 03, 2022, 05:36:21 PM »

I think what should happen on this form is the same thing that would happen in this forum if it were 1940.
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TiltsAreUnderrated
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« Reply #12586 on: July 03, 2022, 05:38:17 PM »

The debate over nomenclature has lured in the worst of USGD-tier posting. I've never seen that genie be put back into the bottle in any given thread.
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« Reply #12587 on: July 03, 2022, 05:48:05 PM »

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk  Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk Lug@nsk

How very mature and considerate of you Smiley

Oh, and classically.......paleoconservative.

I'm sorry, but Луганск just rolls off the tongue better than Луганськ and I'm not going to apologise for it.
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Omega21
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« Reply #12588 on: July 03, 2022, 06:38:37 PM »

I find myself mostly using Russian terms, such as Severodonetsk or Kharkov, becuase I have learned those names long before, with their Russian names.

Same goes for Kiev, but that is the only case where I go out of my way and try to use the preferred spelling Kyiv, because, well, it is their capital, so I dont mind conciously "correcting" myself.

However, for places I have only learned of because of this war, such as Popasna (UA spelling), I use those terms automatically, because, well, I learned the UA spelling first and that is what I am used to.

The funny thing about all this is that no one has shed more blood in this conflict than Russian speaking Ukranians, many of whom cant even speak any Ukrainian.

According to an American foreign fighter who was present there, one such soldier got a few days leave, and went to Kyiv. There, after ordering his coffee in Russian (was not in uniform), he was confronted by a young, "patriotic" Ukrainian draft dodger, and told to SPEAK UKRAINIAN!, like a good patriot.

Such things showcase the absurdity of the whole discussion.

Russian has existed before Putin, and will continue to exist after him. Speaking it does not indicate ones allegience or whether someone is a bigger UA patriot.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #12589 on: July 03, 2022, 06:43:37 PM »


So I decided to check the front pages of some foreign newspapers to see how they were covering the war.
This is what I got.
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Omega21
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« Reply #12590 on: July 03, 2022, 06:54:25 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2022, 07:10:50 PM by Omega21 »

Maybe jaichind can provide some more input on the potential worst case scenario:

Quote
Global oil prices could reach a “stratospheric” $380 a barrel if US and European penalties prompt Russia to inflict retaliatory crude-output cuts, JPMorgan Chase & Co. analysts warned.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-01/jpmorgan-sees-stratospheric-380-oil-on-worst-case-russian-cut

In other Russian oil news:

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« Reply #12591 on: July 03, 2022, 07:04:03 PM »

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The Dowager Mod
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« Reply #12592 on: July 03, 2022, 07:33:43 PM »

Well it's still Constantinople to me no matter y'all say.
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« Reply #12593 on: July 03, 2022, 08:41:26 PM »

Well it's still Constantinople to me no matter y'all say.

Based and Roman pilled.
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Storr
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« Reply #12594 on: July 03, 2022, 08:56:28 PM »
« Edited: July 03, 2022, 09:16:20 PM by Storr »

Importantly, this bridge is part of the only railroad route currently under Russian control that connects Crimea and Southern Ukraine, with the Donbass. (Thus, the key piece of the often discussed "Crimean Land Bridge".)

The only railroad bridge in the area of Liubymivka is the one which crosses the Molochna River here.



There have been recently claims of fighting near Polohy (50km northwest of Tokmak). So an attack on the main Russian supply line to the area, would make sense.



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NOVA Green
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« Reply #12595 on: July 03, 2022, 09:20:08 PM »



Would imagine this be the one???

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Woody
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« Reply #12596 on: July 04, 2022, 03:37:02 AM »

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« Reply #12597 on: July 04, 2022, 04:22:34 AM »

Germany has the first trade deficit since 1991 due to a surge in energy import prices and declines in exports due to weaker manufacturing competitiveness due to higher energy input costs.  Totally expected economic blowback on Russia for its participation in Russian sanctions.
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« Reply #12598 on: July 04, 2022, 04:24:47 AM »

Germany has the first trade deficit since 1991 due to a surge in energy import prices and declines in exports due to weaker manufacturing competitiveness due to higher energy input costs.  Totally expected economic blowback on Russia for its participation in Russian sanctions.


So it took a war in Ukraine to finally correct for the massive trade imbalances in Europe… too bad the countries that already had large trade deficits (ie most of them) will get it in the neck even worse.
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jaichind
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« Reply #12599 on: July 04, 2022, 04:24:56 AM »

Maybe jaichind can provide some more input on the potential worst case scenario:

Quote
Global oil prices could reach a “stratospheric” $380 a barrel if US and European penalties prompt Russia to inflict retaliatory crude-output cuts, JPMorgan Chase & Co. analysts warned.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-01/jpmorgan-sees-stratospheric-380-oil-on-worst-case-russian-cut

In other Russian oil news:



This scenario is extremely unlikely.  It assumes the G7 scheme actually created an airtight buyer cartel and was able to control Russian oil export prices and in retaliation Russia stops all oil exports.  Both these assumptions are pretty much impossible.
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