Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Omega21]

https://www.reuters.com/business/exclusive-indias-top-cement-maker-paying-russian-coal-chinese-yuan-2022-06-29/

"EXCLUSIVE India's top cement maker paying for Russian coal in Chinese yuan"

Indian media are pointing out that this Jugaad (Hindi for a workaround) was personally signed off by Modi and it seems will be the first of many more deals like this to get around the sanctions.   Even the anti-PRC sections of the Indian media seem to report this news in a positive light.

Worst thing that happens, India becomes isolated, best thing, they manage to have favorable relations with all the major powers. This feels very Molotov Ribbentrop.

I mean, India was one of the founding members of the Non-Aligned Movement. Makes perfect sense that they would wish to stay out of Cold War 2.0 and seek to maintain relationships with everyone.

[jaichind]

If Ukrainian forces do pull out of  Lysychansk the next logical defensive lines should be Seversk-Bakhmut but more likely Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Druzhovka-Konstantinovka in Northern  Donetsk should be a stronger line of defense to wear down the Russian forces.  If Ukrainian forces did their homework then this line will be hard to outflank and the Russians will have to use weeks of mass artillery to wear down this new line before they can push through this new line.

Now that the battle of Lysychansk is over other the cleanup of Ukraine troops left in the pocket it is reasonable to think about where the next Ukraine line of defense should be.  I still contend it should be Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Druzhovka-Konstantinovka as the connecting urban regions make it easier to construct fortified defenses and it is less likely to be outflanked and cut off than a defensive belt around Seversk-Bakhmut.

[Storr]

Something blew up in Belgorod, Russia (the closest Russian city to the Ukrainian border).

https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1543393198399275013?s=20&t=waIr7l1uX...

[Storr]

Some trolling from a Lithuanian MP about the current embargo on transporting certain goods through the country to the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad:

https://twitter.com/MatasMaldeikis/status/1542026316916183040?s=20&t=uU1eM8R...

Interestingly, in the 1950s Kruschev offered to give Kaliningrad to Lithuania (like Crimea was given to Ukraine in 1954). But the Lithuanian SSR leader, Antanas Snieckus, turned the offer down because of the nearly more than 500,000 ethnic Russians it would have added to his republic.

It was a sound decision, with hindsight. 

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

Casual reminder that the "separatists" are really just Russian proxies pretending to be states:

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1543283196984496128?s=20&t=ec7yKhQU...

They are Russian puppet states like Poland and East Germany were, they are illegal states on sovereign Ukrainian territory.

The Donbass and Crimea are Ukrainian territory.

[Person Man]

https://www.reuters.com/business/exclusive-indias-top-cement-maker-paying-russian-coal-chinese-yuan-2022-06-29/

"EXCLUSIVE India's top cement maker paying for Russian coal in Chinese yuan"

Indian media are pointing out that this Jugaad (Hindi for a workaround) was personally signed off by Modi and it seems will be the first of many more deals like this to get around the sanctions.   Even the anti-PRC sections of the Indian media seem to report this news in a positive light.

Worst thing that happens, India becomes isolated, best thing, they manage to have favorable relations with all the major powers. This feels very Molotov Ribbentrop.

I mean, India was one of the founding members of the Non-Aligned Movement. Makes perfect sense that they would wish to stay out of Cold War 2.0 and seek to maintain relationships with everyone.

Well, yeah. They were even vaguely communist in the 50s and 60s. However, with them becoming more powerful and more divided, it might be harder to stay on the sidelines.

[Storr]

Probably "nothing".

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1543403110730809344?s=20&t=aGEQxKPpfdFe...

https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1543416357831802880?s=20&t=de3gs6_qx...

[The Dowager Mod]

More video from Belgorod.
https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1543414044664684545

[Storr]

Probably "nothing".

https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1543403110730809344?s=20&t=aGEQxKPpfdFe...

https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1543416357831802880?s=20&t=de3gs6_qx...

The Ukrainian strike was apparently on the Melitopol Airbase.

https://twitter.com/Andryulik/status/1543421981097435136?s=20&t=c-_bcjfU0fsP...

[bilaps]

Entire Luhansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

[CumbrianLefty]

Casual reminder that the "separatists" are really just Russian proxies pretending to be states:

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1543283196984496128?s=20&t=ec7yKhQU...

They are Russian puppet states like Poland and East Germany were, they are illegal states on sovereign Ukrainian territory.

The Donbass and Crimea are Ukrainian territory.

I don't think they are even on that level tbh.

[jaichind]

It seems that there is a Ukraine concentration in the transport hub town of Bakhmut which does not seem to be fortified but is heavy urban which can provide some defensive advantages for Ukrainian forces.  The main drawback for Ukraine is that  Bakhmut is already close to the front and it will be easy for the Russians to have the town under artillery bombardment ASAP. Most likely this will be the next flashpoint. 

If the Ukrainian concentration in Bakhmut is not a feint then it seems their next line of defense is the more forward  Seversk-Bakhmut as opposed to the Sloviansk-Kramatorsk-Druzhovka-Konstantinovka line further back which I would favor if I were Ukrainene High Command.

[jaichind]

Entire Luhansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

I view this the same I view the Ukraine shelling of residential areas of Donbas.  It is an attempt by Ukraine to goad Russia into shifting its long-range missile attacks toward civilian areas in retaliation.  Right now Russia is, correctly in my view,  focusing on attacking training centers for recruits and officers as well ammunition dumps since those are the resources Ukraine is most likely to run out of before the war's end.  Ukraine clearly want them not to target these resources so actions to goad Russia to shift their targeting strategy would make sense.   The weaker the political standing of the Putin regime is in Russia the more likely this is likely to work.

[Lord Halifax]

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

[bilaps]

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

[Lord Halifax]

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

[bilaps]

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

Lol.

[jaichind]

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

I am not aware that this forum has an official position on Ukraine or any other political issue. 

[Good Habit]

author=Lord Halifax link=topic=469771.msg8667923#msg8667923 date=1656856598
It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

Following your logic, (English beeing the national language of the US) the names of San Francisco, Los Angeles, Sacramento, San Antonio, Amarillo, El Paso asf (as well as St. Louis, Detroit, Des Moines, Baton Rouge etc) - should be changed, so that they dont remember of the Spanish/Mexican or French Heritage...) (or maybe they should be returned to Mexico (or France/Haiti - respectively) s/(where the "rightfully" belong \s....

[Hindsight was 2020]

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

I am not aware that this forum has an official position on Ukraine or any other political issue. 

If you seriously think that a conflict of an genocidal war of aggression launch by an wannabe dictator on his neighbor was not going to have overwhelming support for one side then you are straight delusional

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Entire Lughansk region is now under Russian control. Ukrainians retreated at the end from Lysychansk and surroundings without much of a fight. Their response is to strike Belgorod with Tochkas. They killed 3 people who fled from Kharkiv.

ftfy

pls don't use the Russian names for Ukrainian towns and cities on this forum.

I'll use what I want.

You can forbid maybe someone somewhere from using something but you can't change history that quickly. Literally every single resident of Luhansk oblast is a Russian speaker.

Pls don't be so detached from reality.

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

If we're going to be "deleting accounts" I'd rather you go, just to send a harsh precedent to those trying to throw people into a volcano.
Miss me with that s***.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I urge all parties involved to cooperate to restore a status quo where civility is present.
And no further urging for anyone to "delete accounts". That has no place here.

[jaichind]

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

I am not aware that this forum has an official position on Ukraine or any other political issue. 

If you seriously think that a conflict of an genocidal war of aggression launch by an wannabe dictator on his neighbor was not going to have overwhelming support for one side then you are straight delusional

Sure but that is separate from "the official position of this forum is X because of overwhelming support for X on this forum and you are not allowed to post opinions that go against X majority opinon"

[Lord Halifax]

To the "both siders":

If this forum had existed during WW2 pro-Nazi and pro-Japanese posts wouldn't have been accepted, we all know that. We can discuss the war and its consequences in a rational manner without tolerating blatantly pro-Russian posters, this is not a normal political topic and shouldn't be treated like one.

[Hindsight was 2020]

It doesn't matter what the locals call it, Ukrainian is the national language of Ukraine and using the Russian form is an unnecessary provocation on a pro-Ukrainian forum. This not a place for Russia lovers and Chetniks so kindly delete your account and go somewhere else.

I am not aware that this forum has an official position on Ukraine or any other political issue. 

If you seriously think that a conflict of an genocidal war of aggression launch by an wannabe dictator on his neighbor was not going to have overwhelming support for one side then you are straight delusional

Sure but that is separate from "the official position of this forum is X because of overwhelming support for X on this forum and you are not allowed to post opinions that go against X majority opinon"

I guess it’s different from official forum position but being against X majority opinon makes you a massive piece of sh*t so it’s a weird flex