Russia-Ukraine war and related tensions Megathread

[Omega21]

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-putin-woman-war-ukraine-wouldnt-invade-2022-6?amp

"Boris Johnson said Putin wouldn't have started the war in Ukraine if he were a woman"

Amm ... Novorossiya which is pretty much the territory where the fighting is taking place right now was conquered and annexed into Tsarist Russia during the reign of Catherine the Great as was Crimea.

Yes, she can! 👸

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-putin-woman-war-ukraine-wouldnt-invade-2022-6?amp

"Boris Johnson said Putin wouldn't have started the war in Ukraine if he were a woman"

Amm ... Novorossiya which is pretty much the territory where the fighting is taking place right now was conquered and annexed into Tsarist Russia during the reign of Catherine the Great as was Crimea.

Catherine the Great was among the most expansionistic Russian monarchs from the House of Romanov. During her reign, Russia flat-out swallowed most of Poland.
This is basically just performance art from Boris. Surely he's smart enough to know this talking point is rubbish.

[Omega21]

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-putin-woman-war-ukraine-wouldnt-invade-2022-6?amp

"Boris Johnson said Putin wouldn't have started the war in Ukraine if he were a woman"

Amm ... Novorossiya which is pretty much the territory where the fighting is taking place right now was conquered and annexed into Tsarist Russia during the reign of Catherine the Great as was Crimea.

Catherine the Great was among the most expansionistic Russian monarchs from the House of Romanov. During her reign, Russia flat-out swallowed most of Poland.
This is basically just performance art from Boris. Surely he's smart enough to know this talking point is rubbish.

No one is safe from the woke virus anymore 😢

[jaichind]

Catherine the Great was among the most expansionistic Russian monarchs from the House of Romanov. During her reign, Russia flat-out swallowed most of Poland.
This is basically just performance art from Boris. Surely he's smart enough to know this talking point is rubbish.

Her indirect predecessor Elizabeth of Russia got Russia involved in the 7 Years' War against Prussia which only ended when she died and Peter III took over.  Peter III's unpopular pro-peace policy was one of the many reasons he was overthrown by his own estranged wife Catherine the Great.  So the pattern in the mid to end 1700s in Russia was -> male rules = peace, female rulers = war.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-putin-woman-war-ukraine-wouldnt-invade-2022-6?amp

"Boris Johnson said Putin wouldn't have started the war in Ukraine if he were a woman"

Amm ... Novorossiya which is pretty much the territory where the fighting is taking place right now was conquered and annexed into Tsarist Russia during the reign of Catherine the Great as was Crimea.

Catherine the Great was among the most expansionistic Russian monarchs from the House of Romanov. During her reign, Russia flat-out swallowed most of Poland.
This is basically just performance art from Boris. Surely he's smart enough to know this talking point is rubbish.

No one is safe from the woke virus anymore 😢

I would disagree that is a "woke" thing. It's just extending the idea that femininity is "softer" (a very old idea), and overextending it beyond any justification.
He's actually technically correct in that Catherine the Great would not have done this war, but the reason isn't "she's got too much of a heart to want to do it", rather she would recognize it isn't a right time to test Russia's power, and geopolitics is a very cutthroat game, so why give your opponents a win?

Catherine the Great, if she was somehow in charge of Russia today, would probably handle the whole Ukraine thing more effective than Putin has, once she's got into her head that, yes, the world has changed from the 1700s. And she likely would. The same skills that let her coup her husband would likely give her the skills to navigate Russia in the modern world too, if she somehow was in the position to do so.

I'm almost 100% proof-positive that "a woman leader would for sure have too much of a heart to want to do it" is what Boris wants people to read into this.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Bilaps will hopefully be banned in due time, until that point we should all make an effort to ignore blatant sewage in the thread (Jaichind included).

Lol, this is what happens when someone breaks into echo chamber. No discussion on the facts, just insults and yes of course to silence other views.

Even wikipedia says Azov has between 900 and 2500 members and it's probably vastly undercounting them. Not to mention their influence which if wasn't clear before to the neutral observer, it was in plain sight during Mariupol siege. Insignificant militia with such airtime, literaly defending one of the biggest cities in the country.

What are you basing this on?

His usual source. That is, pulling stuff out of his ass.

How many people do you think dies from direct cruise missile strike on a shopping mall with 1000+ people inside you smartass?

WTF does this even mean?

Learn to read. If there were 1000+ people in a mall and it was hit by a direct cruise missile strike how many people should be dead? And how many it is reported? Or maybe just maybe Ukrainians lied that the mall was hit directly, not the factory behind so the fire spreaded or maybe just maybe there weren't 1000 people inside. Which one is it? And why is Ukraine spreading lies about killed civilians? Maybe they need those headlines keep going in the western media so they could get more weapons?

I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!

[Person Man]

This thread has gone overboard.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Can we just take a second to appreciate that we're about to reach page 500?

[CumbrianLefty]

Haughtyness is not something anyone in this thread ought to display, and we shall keep our eyes open to various possibilities and keep in mind that fog of war is real and the need for narrative control for both sides in this war might make it hard to figure out what is actually going on. I for one welcome bilaps bringing his perspective here. If our perspective is vigorous enough, it should withstand it.
This thread ought to be a place where we ponder and look at things from the outside as observers of the biggest hot conflict on European soil in the 21st century to date.

The trouble is, their "perspective" is little more than unsupported assertions which (strangely enough) seem to invariably fit the now familiar "MIGHTY RUSSIA'S GLORIOUS TRIUMPH IS INEVITABLE!" spiel. Even the likes of Sir W and jaichind offer more actual evidence for their Ukra-scepticism.

[bilaps]

Haughtyness is not something anyone in this thread ought to display, and we shall keep our eyes open to various possibilities and keep in mind that fog of war is real and the need for narrative control for both sides in this war might make it hard to figure out what is actually going on. I for one welcome bilaps bringing his perspective here. If our perspective is vigorous enough, it should withstand it.
This thread ought to be a place where we ponder and look at things from the outside as observers of the biggest hot conflict on European soil in the 21st century to date.

The trouble is, their "perspective" is little more than unsupported assertions which (strangely enough) seem to invariably fit the now familiar "MIGHTY RUSSIA'S GLORIOUS TRIUMPH IS INEVITABLE!" spiel. Even the likes of Sir W and jaichind offer more actual evidence for their Ukra-scepticism.

While everything else posted here is based on hard evidence? Give me a break. Come on, explain to me notion that direct cruise missile strike on a crowded mall with 1000 people inside equals how many casualties? 10? Because those are kind of things going unchallenged here and presented as facts.

[jaichind]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/exclusive-kaliningrad-row-eu-nears-compromise-deal-defuse-standoff-with-russia-2022-06-29/

"EXCLUSIVE EU nears compromise deal to defuse standoff with Russia over Kaliningrad"

Looks like the Lithuania-Kaliningrad crisis should be over soon.

[jaichind]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/28/politics/white-house-ukraine-projection/index.html

"Biden officials privately doubt that Ukraine can win back all of its territories"

There seem to be two factions within the White House, a dove and a hawk faction.  Each faction seems to be pushing out views that contradict the views of the other faction.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Haughtyness is not something anyone in this thread ought to display, and we shall keep our eyes open to various possibilities and keep in mind that fog of war is real and the need for narrative control for both sides in this war might make it hard to figure out what is actually going on. I for one welcome bilaps bringing his perspective here. If our perspective is vigorous enough, it should withstand it.
This thread ought to be a place where we ponder and look at things from the outside as observers of the biggest hot conflict on European soil in the 21st century to date.

The trouble is, their "perspective" is little more than unsupported assertions which (strangely enough) seem to invariably fit the now familiar "MIGHTY RUSSIA'S GLORIOUS TRIUMPH IS INEVITABLE!" spiel. Even the likes of Sir W and jaichind offer more actual evidence for their Ukra-scepticism.

While everything else posted here is based on hard evidence? Give me a break.

Is "other people are just as bad as me" seriously your defense here?

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Haughtyness is not something anyone in this thread ought to display, and we shall keep our eyes open to various possibilities and keep in mind that fog of war is real and the need for narrative control for both sides in this war might make it hard to figure out what is actually going on. I for one welcome bilaps bringing his perspective here. If our perspective is vigorous enough, it should withstand it.
This thread ought to be a place where we ponder and look at things from the outside as observers of the biggest hot conflict on European soil in the 21st century to date.

The trouble is, their "perspective" is little more than unsupported assertions which (strangely enough) seem to invariably fit the now familiar "MIGHTY RUSSIA'S GLORIOUS TRIUMPH IS INEVITABLE!" spiel. Even the likes of Sir W and jaichind offer more actual evidence for their Ukra-scepticism.

While everything else posted here is based on hard evidence? Give me a break. Come on, explain to me notion that direct cruise missile strike on a crowded mall with 1000 people inside equals how many casualties? 10? Because those are kind of things going unchallenged here and presented as facts.

I try to minimise engaging with these sorts of posts, but as this topic is still cluttering up the thread and multiple posters are writing about it, I'll make one exception against my better judgement.

The casualties are going to be higher than the current figure of 20 dead and 56 injured. It will take some time to find and identify all of the bodies that can be recovered, some people will probably die of injuries later, and it's quite possible some undocumented people will never be found.

Geolocation indicates that the first cruise missile hit the corner of the mall, and there were air raid warnings before it impacted that would have given a bit of time to flee or find cover. These were apparently ignored by a minority of people, which is not especially surprising after months of war - but still, a majority of the 1000 left the premises before the missile hit.

You can see in the widely available footage that the explosion was not a fire from the factory being hit. The factory was hit with another missile soon afterwards, but only a few warehouses on its edge were destroyed - and that edge was on the far side of the factory, relative to the mall (nearly 500 metres away, in fact). It is likely the pair of inaccurate Kh-22s were both meant to destroy the factory more comprehensively, but with a potential deviation of 200-300 metres against their intended targets (not land targets), one went very wide of the mark.

[Mopsus]

Bilaps will hopefully be banned in due time, until that point we should all make an effort to ignore blatant sewage in the thread (Jaichind included).

Lol, this is what happens when someone breaks into echo chamber. No discussion on the facts, just insults and yes of course to silence other views.

What exactly do you gain from posting here if it’s such an echo chamber? Are you a masochist?

[TheReckoning]

Supporting a right to conquest is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

[nicholas.slaydon]

Supporting a right to conquest is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

Wrong

[TheReckoning]

Supporting a right to conquest is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

Wrong

This thread isn’t as interesting with BigSerg/compucomp muted from it, although I guess that’s what happens when you ban anyone with a different perceptive. People wanted to ban SirWoodbury even though he’s literally pro-Ukraine for reporting any news that wasn’t optimistic for Ukraine.

[Woody]

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1542184483365044224

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Supporting a right to conquest genocide is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

Literally you. Disgusting.

The slippery slope of fascism.

[TheReckoning]

Supporting a right to conquest genocide is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

Literally you. Disgusting.

The slippery slope of fascism.

Supporting genocide is definitely grounds to be banned. But thinking countries have the right to invade other countries really shouldn’t be.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Supporting a right to conquest genocide is a valid position to take, no one should be banned for it.

Literally you. Disgusting.

The slippery slope of fascism.

Supporting genocide is definitely grounds to be banned. But thinking countries have the right to invade other countries really shouldn’t be.

One pretty much inherently leads to the other. To suggest otherwise would be to largely ignore world history when it comes to countries conquering each other for their own ambition and gains. You’re either naive to that, or given past comments by yourself excusing grotesque ideologies like fascism, willfully ignorant if it suits you.

[Woody]

Ukrainians gradually withdrew from the city since last week, some still left. The oil refinery to the west of the city is still contested as of now/possibly under Russian control (RU sources just now).. Chechens claiming they have entered Lysychansk.

https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1542211232509337600
https://twitter.com/MilkyWa34808762/status/1542209544759447552

[Stranger in a strange land]

Ukrainians gradually withdrew from the city since last week, some still left. The oil refinery to the west of the city is still contested as of now/possibly under Russian control (RU sources just now).. Chechens claiming they have entered Lysychansk.

So 2 possibilities:
1) It's a lie
2) Other Russian or Separatist units already took Lysychansk (or part of it) and did the fighting, and Kadyrov's men have arrived to film TikTok and Telegram videos and claim credit.

[Woody]

Syria is now the second UN member (with Russia) to recognize the independence of the so called Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics..

Source: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-middle-east-syria-moscow-c5505e965d7d354b2b1f408385197829