Patriot Party: DabbingSanta/GregTheGreat ticket
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2021, 05:29:33 PM »


Chaos generates a short term bump in activity followed by a prolonged tail of misery, inactivity and despair.

That awkward moment when I've been the source of much chaos in Yankee's Atlasia life over the last 2ish years Tongue

at least it's not me this time?

You dealt with 2018 YT while I was with my dying mother and not available to deal with bullsh@$t, I think that is worthy of some extra patience in return. Smiley
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2021, 08:29:16 PM »

The streets are peaceful. What "social justice madness"?

The communist party got 17% of the vote in the October elections.  Anarchist groups and secessionists like Wulfric wish to disrupt the nation's social order, regardless of your acknowledgement.

That's all very different from unrest in the streets.

Quote
Also, not that I would ever expect either of our justices to sign off on a president repealing laws with executive orders, but what you are advocating for is tyranny and lawlessness.

I would argue that passing a national vaccine mandate is tyranny.  What's worse is that everyone supports it.  How I repeal the mandate when I win bigly is up for debate, but if an executive order is determined to be unconstitutional, I will seek other legal ways to get it done.

You're certainly entitled to believe that about the mandate but that does not give you any power to unilaterally weaken or repeal it. Either the Supreme Court would have to strike it down or the Senate would need to pass a bill repealing it.

Quote
Chaos does generate activity I suppose. Just keep in mind that Trumpism and Trump-like behavior will not help the right win any elections and refusing, as a new player, to learn how the game works doesn't earn you any friends or supporters.

I'm not here to make friends with the establishment.  The voters are largely not engaged with what's happening anyway, so it all comes down to first appearances and turnout drives.  I know my chances of winning outright are near zero, but I feel my candidacy can boost turnout and help conservative causes win, as what happened this week when Utah Neolib defeated S019.  Remember, federalists endorsed Utah Neolib before Greg came along, who I might add was inspired to run by my amazing new party.

I would consider listening to Yankee, though. He's seen this movie before.

no

You're clearly not here to listen either. Well, you've certainly got your character nailed down.
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Saint Milei
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« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2021, 02:14:57 AM »

Can we please not do this again lol
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DabbingSanta
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« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2021, 09:39:26 AM »
« Edited: January 14, 2022, 12:45:26 PM by Dabbing Santa »


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« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2021, 07:06:01 PM »


Because you pay your mistresses to get them, Donald.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2021, 09:12:43 PM »


You are aware that The South has a near blanket criminal ban on abortion after 14 weeks, and just passed a civil heartbeat ban, right? So second trimester largely cannot be aborted there.

Lincoln is somewhat pro-choice but still has a very strong 20 week ban recently upheld by SCOA, plus born-alive protections.

Not sure on the exact strength of Fremont's statute (apparently it has a 24 week ban but I haven't read it), and the Federal Government has a gentleman's agreement to not legislate on the topic and leave it to the regions, but again, at least 2 of those regions, unlike the RL US, actually do notably restrict the practice.
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2021, 09:21:08 PM »


You are aware that The South has a near blanket criminal ban on abortion after 14 weeks, and just passed a civil heartbeat ban, right? So second trimester largely cannot be aborted there.

Lincoln is somewhat pro-choice but still has a very strong 20 week ban recently upheld by SCOA, plus born-alive protections.

Not sure on the exact strength of Fremont's statute (apparently it has a 24 week ban but I haven't read it), and the Federal Government has a gentleman's agreement to not legislate on the topic and leave it to the regions, but again, at least 2 of those regions, unlike the RL US, actually do notably restrict the practice.


Yes, I am aware that it is currently characterized as a regional issue and that state level legislation regulates the legality.  However,  I still believe that it's still an issue worth addressing at the national level, given that 2nd trimester is still common in Lincoln and Fremont.  I would be willing to violate convention and encourage nation level restrictions on this issue.  
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GregTheGreat657
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« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2021, 09:45:25 PM »

I am running for Lincoln General Court
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2021, 11:30:39 PM »


You are aware that The South has a near blanket criminal ban on abortion after 14 weeks, and just passed a civil heartbeat ban, right? So second trimester largely cannot be aborted there.

Lincoln is somewhat pro-choice but still has a very strong 20 week ban recently upheld by SCOA, plus born-alive protections.

Not sure on the exact strength of Fremont's statute (apparently it has a 24 week ban but I haven't read it), and the Federal Government has a gentleman's agreement to not legislate on the topic and leave it to the regions, but again, at least 2 of those regions, unlike the RL US, actually do notably restrict the practice.


Yes, I am aware that it is currently characterized as a regional issue and that state level legislation regulates the legality.  However,  I still believe that it's still an issue worth addressing at the national level, given that 2nd trimester is still common in Lincoln and Fremont.  I would be willing to violate convention and encourage nation level restrictions on this issue.  

This was the game that Foucaulf tried to play in 2015 from the opposite direction.

He ran hyper anti life but pro-regionalist and tried to wedge conservatism apart in game to satisfy the wishful thinking of the AtlasforumIRC cult's quest for centralism ever after. They assumed we would second preference him and help him into the final round to beat Labor and he might have done so even.

However, we ran a devout federalist who was solidly pro-life and and solidly pro-region, and powered him into the final round. It gave labor that election, but it enabled the federalist conservative revival that would dominate the game from 2016 to 2018. Sometimes you do have to stand on principle and sacrificing one wing of the plane for the sake of the other half will just crash the plane and let the leftists and centralists laugh all the way to the bank.

I have seen it happen. 

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« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2021, 09:24:14 AM »


This was the game that Foucaulf tried to play in 2015 from the opposite direction.

He ran hyper anti life but pro-regionalist and tried to wedge conservatism apart in game to satisfy the wishful thinking of the AtlasforumIRC cult's quest for centralism ever after. They assumed we would second preference him and help him into the final round to beat Labor and he might have done so even.

However, we ran a devout federalist who was solidly pro-life and and solidly pro-region, and powered him into the final round. It gave labor that election, but it enabled the federalist conservative revival that would dominate the game from 2016 to 2018. Sometimes you do have to stand on principle and sacrificing one wing of the plane for the sake of the other half will just crash the plane and let the leftists and centralists laugh all the way to the bank.

I have seen it happen.  


This reads as a veiled threat to boycott the Patriot Party ticket entirely, even if we are beating the Federalists (which seems rather unlikely at the moment).  Would you support President Scott over my ticket in the final round?  We both have strong opinions and you're welcome to do as you wish, but I would definitely get supporters to vote Federalist on the second preference provided you nominate a suitable candidate and not someone like OSR or Joseph Cao.  I started this campaign because I felt like the Feds were ignoring a significant portion of their base, and that this is why they keep losing.  I still believe this.
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West_Midlander
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« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2021, 09:24:41 AM »

I'm going to wait to endorse any ticket since I jumped the gun and had to rescind my endorsement twice (oof) in the last election but I really like this ticket and I think y'all should run for the Federalist endorsement!

EDIT: I do like Cao and OSR personally and politically. I wrote my post before I read Dabbing Santa's post but I submitted it after he wrote his most recent most. My interest in his ticket still stands, though.
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« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2021, 09:28:57 AM »

I'm going to wait to endorse any ticket since I jumped the gun and had to rescind my endorsement twice (oof) in the last election but I really like this ticket and I think y'all should run for the Federalist endorsement!

EDIT: I do like Cao and OSR personally and politically. I wrote my post before I read Dabbing Santa's post but I submitted it after he wrote his most recent most. My interest in his ticket still stands, though.

Thank you for your support.  I don't dislike OSR and Cao personally, they're both good people, but I don't agree with them politically.  I think they ran their campaigns as moderates in an effort to appeal to voters who simply don't exist, and it's an old and worn political strategy.  I would accept the Federalist nomination, but I have strong doubts Senator Yankee and other establishment figures would even consider this.
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« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2021, 09:34:32 AM »
« Edited: November 20, 2021, 09:37:59 AM by West_Midlander »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2021, 02:21:04 PM »

I started this campaign because I felt like the Feds were ignoring a significant portion of their base, and that this is why they keep losing.  I still believe this.

Aren't you doing the same thing though?

You have now twice said you would subordinate regionalism to other concerns. Life and personal choice are important yes, but so is resisting the slow drip of centralized power in Nyman, DC.

Aren't you doing the very same thing by essentially picking and choosing what part of the base to stick it to?




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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2021, 02:30:20 PM »
« Edited: November 20, 2021, 02:49:13 PM by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

This reads as a veiled threat to boycott the Patriot Party ticket entirely, even if we are beating the Federalists (which seems rather unlikely at the moment).  Would you support President Scott over my ticket in the final round?  

If Greg the Great was on the ticket, as someone who has publicly expressed concern over growing executive power, it would be far less concerning. However, the repeated disregard for small f federalist concerns shows something of a concerning pattern.

In 2015, Labor wanted us to directly vote for them to defeat Foucaulf, but I realized that this was only going to play into the centralist cults hands. AtlasforumIRC was spreading lies about us being socialists and what not and if we directly backed Labor, they would succeed in further splintering and absorbing the right into their radicalist/centralist sponge strategy in the name of "defeating Labor uber alles".

That is why we pushed JCL so hard and got him ahead of foucaulf. I don't think many Feds second preferenced labor, though a number left it blank (foucaulf was like militantly pro-choice, surely you of all people can understand why that would be a problem for our socially conservative members), and the point was not to be seen embracing the Labor agenda, but opposing it on our terms with our philosophy of federalism at the forefront.

You would never get so lucky as for me to vote for Scott over you. That would be a gold mine and I didn't get this far by being stupid.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2021, 02:35:49 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2021, 02:39:57 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also the obvious reality is that Cao/OSR just aren't as aggressive vote hunters as YT/LT. They are more like ATlasia of yore, put yourself out there, do a little GOTV and you were competitive. Now its all about GOTV and AFE board has declined with less campaigns, less speeches, debates, etc.
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« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2021, 07:32:56 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



The Democratic Party is not really dominated by neoliberals, at all. The misuse of the term neoliberal is something that really irks me since it's used in so many ways to discredit the successes of the Third Way Left of the 1990s and early 2000s. Anyways, putting that aside, neoliberalism at its core involves market liberalization and arose as a consequence of the excesses of Keynesian economic policy as practiced by left-wing parties (referred to in some countries as the Post War Consensus). The stereotypical neoliberals are not Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, but Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Really all use of the term does is discredit much of the progress made by the global left during the 1990s.
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« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2021, 07:37:34 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



The Democratic Party is not really dominated by neoliberals, at all. The misuse of the term neoliberal is something that really irks me since it's used in so many ways to discredit the successes of the Third Way Left of the 1990s and early 2000s. Anyways, putting that aside, neoliberalism at its core involves market liberalization and arose as a consequence of the excesses of Keynesian economic policy as practiced by left-wing parties (referred to in some countries as the Post War Consensus). The stereotypical neoliberals are not Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, but Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Really all use of the term does is discredit much of the progress made by the global left during the 1990s.

Who reformed welfare, unleashed a wave of outsourcing on the textile and other industries and set the stage for the Great Recession by signing two major pieces of financial deregulation in his term?
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S019
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« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2021, 07:47:26 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



The Democratic Party is not really dominated by neoliberals, at all. The misuse of the term neoliberal is something that really irks me since it's used in so many ways to discredit the successes of the Third Way Left of the 1990s and early 2000s. Anyways, putting that aside, neoliberalism at its core involves market liberalization and arose as a consequence of the excesses of Keynesian economic policy as practiced by left-wing parties (referred to in some countries as the Post War Consensus). The stereotypical neoliberals are not Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, but Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Really all use of the term does is discredit much of the progress made by the global left during the 1990s.

Who reformed welfare, unleashed a wave of outsourcing on the textile and other industries and set the stage for the Great Recession by signing two major pieces of financial deregulation in his term?

Well I believe we need to look back at before the 1994 Republican Revolution, when frankly the Republican Revolution forced Clinton's hands on many of these issues. His 1994 budget, while yes cutting spending, did implement sizable tax increases. To the degree that the left did practice neoliberalism, which okay maybe Clinton did, but really none of the other Third Way leaders (Blair, Schroder, etc.) did, it was a different type than the right practiced. Sure Clinton did not raise taxes back to their pre-Reagan levels of 70%, because the party was of course different, and sure it had to concede some matters on economics to the right given the clear failure of the Keynesian Consensus, but overall, this is a pretty reductive view of the left of the 1990s. On the point of outsourcing, that was basically inevitable as globalization increased and fighting it was a fools errand. When you're forced to concede some of your economic policy since it clearly failed, you'd rather not swim against the current, so that's the first thing you'll concede. Anyways blaming the Global Financial Crisis simply on the repeal of Glass Steagall is not exactly the best reasoning. The legislation had already become significantly weak by the time of its repeal, so it would've done little to stop the risky lending that would balloon during the first half of the 2000s. On the topic of the GFC, we should note that America was far from the only place with let's say not-ideal economic factors, as we of course saw with the Southern Europe disaster. Lastly, the market does ebb and flow, and expecting housing prices to rise forever, especially in the context of all of these risky loans, is just unrealistic. Maybe both parties share blame, maybe the market cycle shares blame, maybe it's a mix, but one thing is for sure, there were far more factors than the repeal of Glass-Steagall that contributed to the GFC.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2021, 07:57:41 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



The Democratic Party is not really dominated by neoliberals, at all. The misuse of the term neoliberal is something that really irks me since it's used in so many ways to discredit the successes of the Third Way Left of the 1990s and early 2000s. Anyways, putting that aside, neoliberalism at its core involves market liberalization and arose as a consequence of the excesses of Keynesian economic policy as practiced by left-wing parties (referred to in some countries as the Post War Consensus). The stereotypical neoliberals are not Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, but Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Really all use of the term does is discredit much of the progress made by the global left during the 1990s.

Who reformed welfare, unleashed a wave of outsourcing on the textile and other industries and set the stage for the Great Recession by signing two major pieces of financial deregulation in his term?

Well I believe we need to look back at before the 1994 Republican Revolution, when frankly the Republican Revolution forced Clinton's hands on many of these issues. His 1994 budget, while yes cutting spending, did implement sizable tax increases. To the degree that the left did practice neoliberalism, which okay maybe Clinton did, but really none of the other Third Way leaders (Blair, Schroder, etc.) did, it was a different type than the right practiced. Sure Clinton did not raise taxes back to their pre-Reagan levels of 70%, because the party was of course different, and sure it had to concede some matters on economics to the right given the clear failure of the Keynesian Consensus, but overall, this is a pretty reductive view of the left of the 1990s. On the point of outsourcing, that was basically inevitable as globalization increased and fighting it was a fools errand. When you're forced to concede some of your economic policy since it clearly failed, you'd rather not swim against the current, so that's the first thing you'll concede. Anyways blaming the Global Financial Crisis simply on the repeal of Glass Steagall is not exactly the best reasoning. The legislation had already become significantly weak by the time of its repeal, so it would've done little to stop the risky lending that would balloon during the first half of the 2000s. On the topic of the GFC, we should note that America was far from the only place with let's say not-ideal economic factors, as we of course saw with the Southern Europe disaster. Lastly, the market does ebb and flow, and expecting housing prices to rise forever, especially in the context of all of these risky loans, is just unrealistic. Maybe both parties share blame, maybe the market cycle shares blame, maybe it's a mix, but one thing is for sure, there were far more factors than the repeal of Glass-Steagall that contributed to the GFC.

It wasn't just Glass Steagal, it was also the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, which legalized many of the same classes of derivatives that were at the heart of the meltdown. Clinton also pushed irresponsible lending as did Bush who followed him, but the housing market's impact on the rest of the economy was only made possible thanks to the exposure to mortgage backed securities and the proliferation of these in the early to mid 2000s, thanks to the deregulation signed by Clinton in the 1990s.

 
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« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2021, 10:13:01 PM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



The Democratic Party is not really dominated by neoliberals, at all. The misuse of the term neoliberal is something that really irks me since it's used in so many ways to discredit the successes of the Third Way Left of the 1990s and early 2000s. Anyways, putting that aside, neoliberalism at its core involves market liberalization and arose as a consequence of the excesses of Keynesian economic policy as practiced by left-wing parties (referred to in some countries as the Post War Consensus). The stereotypical neoliberals are not Bill Clinton and Tony Blair, but Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. Really all use of the term does is discredit much of the progress made by the global left during the 1990s.

Who reformed welfare, unleashed a wave of outsourcing on the textile and other industries and set the stage for the Great Recession by signing two major pieces of financial deregulation in his term?

Well I believe we need to look back at before the 1994 Republican Revolution, when frankly the Republican Revolution forced Clinton's hands on many of these issues. His 1994 budget, while yes cutting spending, did implement sizable tax increases. To the degree that the left did practice neoliberalism, which okay maybe Clinton did, but really none of the other Third Way leaders (Blair, Schroder, etc.) did, it was a different type than the right practiced. Sure Clinton did not raise taxes back to their pre-Reagan levels of 70%, because the party was of course different, and sure it had to concede some matters on economics to the right given the clear failure of the Keynesian Consensus, but overall, this is a pretty reductive view of the left of the 1990s. On the point of outsourcing, that was basically inevitable as globalization increased and fighting it was a fools errand. When you're forced to concede some of your economic policy since it clearly failed, you'd rather not swim against the current, so that's the first thing you'll concede. Anyways blaming the Global Financial Crisis simply on the repeal of Glass Steagall is not exactly the best reasoning. The legislation had already become significantly weak by the time of its repeal, so it would've done little to stop the risky lending that would balloon during the first half of the 2000s. On the topic of the GFC, we should note that America was far from the only place with let's say not-ideal economic factors, as we of course saw with the Southern Europe disaster. Lastly, the market does ebb and flow, and expecting housing prices to rise forever, especially in the context of all of these risky loans, is just unrealistic. Maybe both parties share blame, maybe the market cycle shares blame, maybe it's a mix, but one thing is for sure, there were far more factors than the repeal of Glass-Steagall that contributed to the GFC.

It wasn't just Glass Steagal, it was also the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, which legalized many of the same classes of derivatives that were at the heart of the meltdown. Clinton also pushed irresponsible lending as did Bush who followed him, but the housing market's impact on the rest of the economy was only made possible thanks to the exposure to mortgage backed securities and the proliferation of these in the early to mid 2000s, thanks to the deregulation signed by Clinton in the 1990s.

 

Well sure I don't deny that legislation was part of it, but risky loaning, imo, would've happened regardless, banks often find loopholes through laws, so even if the legislation remained in place, I don't think we just see subprime mortgages disappear completely, or even get reduced much at all. As for mortgage backed securities, those had already been popular by the 1980s, so again not convinced leaving this one law in place changes that. Sure we can say that banks bought a lot of mortgage backed securities, and maybe this legislation would've prevented some of the more risky ones from being traded. But like most financial crises, there were many causes, and there were far more steps that needed to be taken than leaving one or two laws in place to avert it. In fact, maybe it was never possible to be averted, but if it was, at least, in my opinion, you'd need to fundamentally change the behavior of the banks and the lenders, who were perhaps the largest contributors to the crisis, one or two pieces of regulation would not achieve that, in my opinion.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #72 on: November 21, 2021, 07:19:58 AM »

IMO Cao lost since he announced his bid relatively close to election weekend and thus lost the support of DAers who had endorsed (and voted for) Scott when it was assumed that Spark would be the Federalist candidate.

Also, Scott, being pro-gun, makes him an exceptionally strong Laborite candidate and highly appealing to swing voters.*

*since while Atlasia is heavily left-wing, Atlasia is about 50/50 on guns with a sizeable pro-gun Laborite minority and likewise, there is a substantial minority of pro-life and anti-PC Laborites (at least in my opinion).

Atlasia has a different political alignment from real life, its almost like there is a sizable rural contingent that votes on issues like unions and workers rights and thus the left party has a large pro-gun and even pro-life contingent like the Democrats did 20 years ago. Perhaps this is an indicator of what a Democratic Party could be if it wasn't dominated by donors and neoliberals.  Pro-gun socialists and leftwing populists. Tongue



Atlasia has a ton of things, but I don't think "a sizable rural contingent" is one of them Tongue
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Blair
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« Reply #73 on: November 21, 2021, 08:35:40 AM »

I'm surprised no-one is arguing about the 2016 primary.
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Blair
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« Reply #74 on: November 21, 2021, 08:36:22 AM »

I welcome this ticket. It gives me a chance to dust off the 'SMASH THE TRUMPISTS' campaign.
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