Greatest modern champion of secularism?

[James Monroe]

Of the people listed above, including two notable individuals who are no longer with us, who do you think has defended the best case for atheism and rationality to the general public? Curious to know as some of these figures have been criticized on this board but have been championed by many as the turning point to secularism.


For me nobody does it quite like Hitchens. Just a witty man and incredible intellectual that has been missed since he left us in 2011.  Carlin did the best in getting the viewpoint across to the general layperson and his language barrier is testament to his popularity long after his death. Carlin is very likely the most influential atheist of the modern world.

[If my soul was made of stone]

The one who turned all the followers of those folks alt-right, of course.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I mean, Carlin obviously sucked least (although Hitchens had his moments, notably seeing through Bill Clinton relatively early on). Dawkins has fared the best as a Weird Twitter icon, though, which is something.

[James Monroe]

The one who turned all the followers of those folks alt-right, of course.

All of the listed individuals go against the alt-right notion of preserving superstition.

[If my soul was made of stone]

The one who turned all the followers of those folks alt-right, of course.

All of the listed individuals go against the alt-right notion of preserving superstition.

Why do they like "preserving superstition" when it fits their cultural grievances of resenting Muslims and trans folks, then?

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

How about relatively normal people such as Carl Sagan?

[James Monroe]

How about relatively normal people such as Carl Sagan?

Thought about including Sagan, though I could include many pop science individuals if I wanted to.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

How about relatively normal people such as Carl Sagan?

Sagan advocated for secularism in a way that didn't revolve around weird nihilism (Carlin) or unprovoked personal insults (most of the others listed here), so Generation Outrage Algorithm has no use for him.

[afleitch]

What is this? This is the sort of list some edgy Christian would put together. I partly take that back; this list is very Atlas Forum

In the modern era you could say Jonas Salk for his medical contributions and or Gloria Steinem for her views on feminism and early advocacy of a lot of current mainstream issues. James Randi was the most effective of the 'skeptics.'

I agree with the inclusion of Carl Sagan.

If your list is primarily Brits making a quick buck fifteen years ago to argue on Christian college campuses that's quite sheltered.

[James Monroe]

What is this? This is the sort of list some edgy Christian would put together. I partly take that back; this list is very Atlas Forum

In the modern era you could say Jonas Salk for his medical contributions and or Gloria Steinem for her views on feminism and early advocacy of a lot of current mainstream issues. James Randi was the most effective of the 'skeptics.'

I agree with the inclusion of Carl Sagan.

If your list is primarily Brits making a quick buck fifteen years ago to argue on Christian college campuses that's quite sheltered.

Edgy Christians? I mean, those "types" would be offended by all of the above anyways, which makes them the antitheses of these ideologies. Now that you mention him, James Randi did a great job of skewing the fantastical crowd. Sad to learn of his passing last year, hopefully new generations of skeptics will continue his legacy of showing the truthful nature of science to the world. Gloria Steinem does not cross my mind for inclusion because I think of her more primarily as a social reformer who was secular than an outspoken secular figure, though she did win the AHA Humanist Award. For a wonderful humanist in charge we should thank Dr. Anthony Fauci who has protected America against this time of crisis, who lead the charge against anti-intellectualism that is prolonging the pandemic in America. Still, he's a man of science than a philosopher on the illogical nature of religion.

Say what you will about the New Atheists, they were brave individuals who spoke out against religion when it was more fashionable. Nowadays I think you can go around to people and say you're a nonbeliever because of these men great task in challenging the superstitious status quo that had a hand in help from the U.S government during the Bush era.

[PSOL]

Christopher Hitchens

[Antonio the Sixth]

The one who turned all the followers of those folks alt-right, of course.

All of the listed individuals go against the alt-right notion of preserving superstition.

Sam Harris is basically trying to resurrect phrenology.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

What is this? This is the sort of list some edgy Christian would put together. I partly take that back; this list is very Atlas Forum

In the modern era you could say Jonas Salk for his medical contributions and or Gloria Steinem for her views on feminism and early advocacy of a lot of current mainstream issues. James Randi was the most effective of the 'skeptics.'

I agree with the inclusion of Carl Sagan.

If your list is primarily Brits making a quick buck fifteen years ago to argue on Christian college campuses that's quite sheltered.

Edgy Christians? I mean, those "types" would be offended by all of the above anyways, which makes them the antitheses of these ideologies. Now that you mention him, James Randi did a great job of skewing the fantastical crowd. Sad to learn of his passing last year, hopefully new generations of skeptics will continue his legacy of showing the truthful nature of science to the world. Gloria Steinem does not cross my mind for inclusion because I think of her more primarily as a social reformer who was secular than an outspoken secular figure, though she did win the AHA Humanist Award. For a wonderful humanist in charge we should thank Dr. Anthony Fauci who has protected America against this time of crisis, who lead the charge against anti-intellectualism that is prolonging the pandemic in America. Still, he's a man of science than a philosopher on the illogical nature of religion.

Say what you will about the New Atheists, they were brave individuals who spoke out against religion when it was more fashionable. Nowadays I think you can go around to people and say you're a nonbeliever because of these men great task in challenging the superstitious status quo that had a hand in help from the U.S government during the Bush era.

I really don't think secularization is stochastic enough of a social force to be credited to (or blamed on, depending on your priors) Richard "dogs in full 69" Dawkins or Sam "if I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would get rid of religion" Harris, James. If one absolutely insists on great-manning this then a better figure to bring up in this context, in an own-petard sort of way, might be Ralph Reed.

[John Dule]

The one who turned all the followers of those folks alt-right, of course.

All of the listed individuals go against the alt-right notion of preserving superstition.

Why do they like "preserving superstition" when it fits their cultural grievances of resenting Muslims and trans folks, then?

To what superstition do you refer?

[Biden his time]

Unironically Carl Sagan

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Voltaire or Huxley.

IDK about the late 20th/21st century because secularism is already hegemonic. It's probably someone in the Arab world.

[James Monroe]

Voltaire or Huxley.

IDK about the late 20th/21st century because secularism is already hegemonic. It's probably someone in the Arab world.

What do you think of Ayaan Hersi Ali?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Voltaire or Huxley.

IDK about the late 20th/21st century because secularism is already hegemonic. It's probably someone in the Arab world.

What do you think of Ayaan Hersi Ali?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

Too identified with neoconservative discourse in the west for me to give a reasonable opinion.

I also said in the Arab world, so not a Dutch author.

[Mr. Smith]

Voltaire or Huxley.

IDK about the late 20th/21st century because secularism is already hegemonic. It's probably someone in the Arab world.

If Huxley counts, you might as well include Bertrand Russell.

But Carlin is the best on this list, as Hitchens really went loopy after 9/11, and the rest of them are trash.

[°Leprechaun]

Christopher Hitchens

[afleitch]

It's odd to think Hitchens died 10 years ago this month. I'd like to think he'd have not only hated Trump given his views on conspiracism and the embryonic 'birther' campaign against Obama, but hated also 'muh centrism' for enabling him.

But his widow has rightly refused wannane biographers from trying to 'claim' him as for or against any culture war tenet.

[vitoNova]

Wasn't that Hitchens guy a massive neocon and a Dubya/Blair fanboi?

Ewwww.

Gross.

[afleitch]

Wasn't that Hitchens guy a massive neocon and a Dubya/Blair fanboi?

Ewwww.

Gross.

Hitchens was contrarian. He was a Nader to Bush to Obama supporter for numerous reasons apparent to him.

He was 'radicalised' on the need for foreign intervention by Bosnia, Kosovo (intervention to help European Muslims) and Rwanda. That what happened on 9/11 and in Afghanistan and against the Kurds in Iraq (whom he supported) was seen by him as an extension of 'all that' a mere half decade later, shouldn't suprise anyone at the time. (Bosnia was seared into my young mind too and still colours my views today, as Dunblane still does on gun control.)

[FT-02 Senator A.F.E. 🇵🇸🤝🇺🇸🤝🇺🇦]

I can't believe you guys haven't brought up the greatest champion of secularism in the 21st century: olawakandi

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I can't believe you guys haven't brought up the greatest champion of secularism in the 21st century: olawakandi

The thread is about secularism, not SECULARISM.

The capitalization changes the meaning. Like polish and Polish.