Since "L*tinx" provides no electoral benefits why don't Democrats reject it outright?

[Damocles]

This is especially hilarious in my experience. Some of the Latino folks I work with are virtually indistinguishable from white people. Others are more brown, and some are black. Many were born and raised here, but have some kind of Latino heritage (usually Mexican, but not always). Some came directly from Mexico, or Guatemala, or El Salvador. Some have families spread all over the place, with some relatives in the US and some others in another country.

It's important to remember that the term "Latino" is the term that they use to refer to themselves as a wider family of cultures. Why go mucking about and changing things to appease cloistered white liberals? Doesn't that seem a bit insulting and demeaning? Imperialist, even?

[parochial boy]

I didn't indirectly do a big thread on Latinx with multiple explanations only for this issue to pop up again 

It’s quite funny how much people on here flip out about inclusive language when you think about how rare it actually is in English. Imagine if someone actually showed them what it was like in French or Spanish or German where it actually has pretty widespread and regular use.

I would have considered it the other way around? It’s more due to fundamental linguistic differences than social/cultural conditions, I think, but American English has transitioned from, say, using fireman to firefighter in a way that Spanish has not done with bombero to bombere/bomberx, or using the singular they vs elle.

Those are mostly not really terms that are in day to day use though, so they contrast to other languages where the gender neutral as you say isn’t an option and where every noun and as a consequent adjectives and all the rest have to be gendered. Obviously in that sort of context, the issue is inherently going to be more present than the handful of easy fixes that you have in English.

I dunno, just opening a few news websites in French (at least Swiss French, the French are a lot more reactionary about this type of thing) and German at random, they, especially youth oriented ones overwhelmingly use some formulations of inclusive language. It’s much more prevalent and has been for much longer than in English where for the most time it isn’t even relevant. But it also contrasts quite starkly to this site which, despite having a young and broadly progressive user base, refuses to even contemplate it as an issue. That would be unimaginable on a site with a similar French or German speaking demographic.

Ignoring what you think about the issue at large, what I find a bit offensive is people treating inclusive language like it is some sort of white American liberal imposition. As if foreign language speakers are to passive or inherently conservative to even think about their own languages and as if any progressive social changes could only possibly originate in the USA.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

I would actually disagree with this; I saw it everywhere six months ago, but it seems that the euphemism treadmill has largely passed it by already. Something noteworthy about "BIPOC" is that nobody has ever known what it stands for, which seems like a bug but is probably a feature.

I'm pretty sure it was designed to exclude Asians from the minority label when discussing affirmative action.

[Red Velvet]

I didn't indirectly do a big thread on Latinx with multiple explanations only for this issue to pop up again  

It’s quite funny how much people on here flip out about inclusive language when you think about how rare it actually is in English. Imagine if someone actually showed them what it was like in French or Spanish or German where it actually has pretty widespread and regular use.

I would have considered it the other way around? It’s more due to fundamental linguistic differences than social/cultural conditions, I think, but American English has transitioned from, say, using fireman to firefighter in a way that Spanish has not done with bombero to bombere/bomberx, or using the singular they vs elle.

Ignoring what you think about the issue at large, what I find a bit offensive is people treating inclusive language like it is some sort of white American liberal imposition. As if foreign language speakers are to passive or inherently conservative to even think about their own languages and as if any progressive social changes could only possibly originate in the USA.

The funny thing is how it exemplifies how liberalism nowadays doesn’t think critically. It’s all about the political correctness signaling in order to validate the ego instead of actually reaching out to people.

It’s one thing if there’s a debate about gendered language inside Spanish or Portuguese speaking circles. Americans speak English though, so it’s NOT an “issue” of their concern when there’s the non-gendered word LATIN right there. There is zero argument to put an extra “x” there.

The word “Latino/Latina” in English with the vowels was adopted into the English vocabulary because people wanted to signal to the non-English speakers anyway. And now they want to signal to the trans, non binaries, etc.

It’s classic example of putting so much emphasis on “speech” and “representation” that you lose yourself in the character to the point you’re saying nothing meaningful at all. This is recurring theme with current woke progressives in the US.

Other examples: Terms like LGBTQIAPS+ where you just add more letters in order to update it to something harsher for the masses to pronounce and adopt, so you can feel woker than most average person and comfortable in your academic bubble, while lecturing others.

There’s also the attempts to update the gay pride flag by putting a bunch of additional stuff into it in order to supposedly “include” underrepresented groups. When that’s something that the rainbow flag by itself already does.

This isn’t necessarily is limited to American progressives academic circles at all but if we’re being honest, those people tend to be easier caricature than others because that focus on signaling often tends to be the main and only focus they have. And they also use these narratives to try to repress actual meaningful discussions and push for right-wing stuff.

Ex: calling “sexist” the concept of one parent earnings being ideally sufficient to sustain the whole family because in their minds women are such victims that necessarily this is justification for them to be forced to be stay-at-home moms. It could be the father who takes care of the home and the children, for example. But no, they keep bringing liberal parody talking points to justify the brutality and injustices of current capitalism.

I think you don’t really see that to this same level in other places, although it happens in much smaller doses. It’s maybe related cultural and political background. People in US tend to be more individual-driven than in most places, so the most popular expression of both the right and the left tend to focus on defending the concept of the “individual” and “individual freedoms”.

And for the left, this is reflected in this excessive focus on identity matters and concern to try to “represent” every single existing group through a cute but empty speech or symbolism.

It’s simply impossible to include sufficient symbols for all different groups that exist, so instead of this segregationist logic where you need to keep adding new terms into one single word, flag or acronym, just use one term that collectively embraces everyone.

Latinx are already represented by Latin in English. And even in Portuguese, I would argue that Latino includes them as well imo. The rainbow flag already represents all LGBTQIAPS+, which by itself is a term that can just be substituted by “Queer”. And whether women or men are stay-at-home parents should be only their personal decisions and for that to be possible, you gotta make sure that the salary of one is able to sustain the whole family.

It’s that kind of basic stuff that should be common sense knowledge but gets twisted by some liberals who either got themselves lost in the character they created or were affected by some CIA propaganda which weaponized issues of their concerns in a way that works against their interests.

However, I do think people tend to generalize the importance of this too. These people are annoying and represent a loud online and media segment, also some politicians, but they definitely are far from being any type of majority among real people. It’s important to call them out on their hypocrisy when opportunity surges though, precisely because they don’t represent the numbers they like to think they do.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I didn't indirectly do a big thread on Latinx with multiple explanations only for this issue to pop up again 

It’s quite funny how much people on here flip out about inclusive language when you think about how rare it actually is in English. Imagine if someone actually showed them what it was like in French or Spanish or German where it actually has pretty widespread and regular use.

I would have considered it the other way around? It’s more due to fundamental linguistic differences than social/cultural conditions, I think, but American English has transitioned from, say, using fireman to firefighter in a way that Spanish has not done with bombero to bombere/bomberx, or using the singular they vs elle.

Those are mostly not really terms that are in day to day use though, so they contrast to other languages where the gender neutral as you say isn’t an option and where every noun and as a consequent adjectives and all the rest have to be gendered. Obviously in that sort of context, the issue is inherently going to be more present than the handful of easy fixes that you have in English.

I dunno, just opening a few news websites in French (at least Swiss French, the French are a lot more reactionary about this type of thing) and German at random, they, especially youth oriented ones overwhelmingly use some formulations of inclusive language. It’s much more prevalent and has been for much longer than in English where for the most time it isn’t even relevant. But it also contrasts quite starkly to this site which, despite having a young and broadly progressive user base, refuses to even contemplate it as an issue. That would be unimaginable on a site with a similar French or German speaking demographic.

Ignoring what you think about the issue at large, what I find a bit offensive is people treating inclusive language like it is some sort of white American liberal imposition. As if foreign language speakers are to passive or inherently conservative to even think about their own languages and as if any progressive social changes could only possibly originate in the USA.

As someone else here has stated in the thread, the discontent comes not so much from a gender neutral term being used but that the one being used is really bad and almost feels like it was designed as some sort of polarizing sibboleth.

[Klobmentum Mutilated Herself]

Hispanic and Latin American are already gender neutral words that everybody knows. Why don't people just use those instead of Latino/Latina/Latinx?

[Bootes Void]

Hispanic and Latin American are already gender neutral words that everybody knows. Why don't people just use those instead of Latino/Latina/Latinx?

because the woke people are narcissists, they have to create a new pointless term to make themselves feel important

[Horus]

Hispanic and Latin American are already gender neutral words that everybody knows. Why don't people just use those instead of Latino/Latina/Latinx?

There is a crowd who seem to believe putting x in words makes them more inclusive. Latinx, wxman, folx etc. I think it's bizarre and have no clue as to why, perhaps it has to do with intersex or non binary people? But for folks it really makes no sense since the word is already gender neutral.

[NYSforKennedy2024]

I doubt Latin(a, o, x) voters care much about any of this.

[Figueira]

Which Democrats are using it?

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

The main problem with BIPOC is that no one knows what it means. The #1 rule of coining new terms is that it should be clear what it means. No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not.

[fhtagn]

I would 100% vote for a Democrat with the balls to call me a sp!c over cursed terms like "Latinx"

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Which Democrats are using it?

Elizabeth Warren, duh. And apparently whoever manages the DNC's social media:
https://twitter.com/thedemocrats/status/1444020367698407429

[StateBoiler]

I honestly cannot imagine a more whiter word than Latinx. It's like a group of college professors said "hi Hispanics, we consider the Spanish language and its use of the masculine and feminine form in routine words to be offensive, so a bunch of liberal white native English speakers are going to dictate how your native language should operate". I can just picture latinos hearing this word and muttering puta madre to whoever said it.

Do you use Mexicanx instead of Mexicano? Costa Ricans are ticos, do you call them ticx? How about hondurenx and salvadorenx?

Throw on top of it the x in the Spanish language makes an h sound, that's how you can tell Latinx did not come from Spanish language speakers: try and say Latinx as a native Spanish speaker naturally making an h sound at the end. They'd probably end up just saying the letter x separate and say "latin-equis."

[StateBoiler]

Which Democrats are using it?

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

The main problem with BIPOC is that no one knows what it means. The #1 rule of coining new terms is that it should be clear what it means. No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not.

"No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not." Translated: we're working out whether it's okay to be silently racist to Asians or not.

No one can agree on the acronyms to use and they change constantly. First time I heard LGBTQ I asked what the q stood for and was told "queer", at which point I asked "when did that become an acceptable word to use and not a slur?"

[Edu]

Throw on top of it the x in the Spanish language makes an h sound, that's how you can tell Latinx did not come from Spanish language speakers: try and say Latinx as a native Spanish speaker naturally making an h sound at the end.

Have I been speaking spanish wrong all my life or this is blatantly false?

[kaoras]

Throw on top of it the x in the Spanish language makes an h sound, that's how you can tell Latinx did not come from Spanish language speakers: try and say Latinx as a native Spanish speaker naturally making an h sound at the end.

Have I been speaking spanish wrong all my life or this is blatantly false?

As with most of the people who are commenting on this, he doesn't actually know Spanish. He is probably thinking in the word "Mexico" where it does sound like an English h.

[fhtagn]

Which Democrats are using it?

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

The main problem with BIPOC is that no one knows what it means. The #1 rule of coining new terms is that it should be clear what it means. No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not.

"No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not." Translated: we're working out whether it's okay to be silently racist to Asians or not.

No one can agree on the acronyms to use and they change constantly. First time I heard LGBTQ I asked what the q stood for and was told "queer", at which point I asked "when did that become an acceptable word to use and not a slur?"

I remember when Q used to be "questioning"

[Kamala's side hoe]

Which Democrats are using it?

Staffers and PR interns on Twitter, apparently.

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

The main problem with BIPOC is that no one knows what it means. The #1 rule of coining new terms is that it should be clear what it means. No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not.

BILAP is a step up on that front, since it explicitly mentions Latinos, Asians, and Pacific Islanders. But yeah, the constantly shifting acronyms are a bit off-putting.

[Xing]

1. Drawing more attention to it (even in a negative way) will hurt Democrats, so it's better to ignore it and treat it like the non-issue that it is.

2. Some activists would raise a fuss about it.

[StateBoiler]

Throw on top of it the x in the Spanish language makes an h sound, that's how you can tell Latinx did not come from Spanish language speakers: try and say Latinx as a native Spanish speaker naturally making an h sound at the end.

Have I been speaking spanish wrong all my life or this is blatantly false?

As with most of the people who are commenting on this, he doesn't actually know Spanish. He is probably thinking in the word "Mexico" where it does sound like an English h.

Well most Americans taught Spanish are taught it from a Mexican or Central American perspective because that's the people that speak Spanish and live here. There's probably more Guatemalans living in the U.S. than there are Chileans or Argentines.

https://www.thoughtco.com/pronouncing-the-spanish-x-3079549

You may have noticed that the Spanish x is sometimes pronounced like the English x, but sometimes like the English s. If so, you might be wondering: Are there rules about when it is pronounced as an "x" and when it's pronounced as an "s"?

‘X’ Between Vowels

Due to regional variations, there aren't any rules that hold true throughout the Spanish-speaking world. In general, however, when between vowels (as in exactamente) the Spanish x is pronounced like the English "ks" sound but softer or less explosive.

‘X’ Before Another Consonant

When it comes before another consonant (as in expedición), it has the "s" sound in some regions/countries but the soft "ks" sound in others. In some areas, the letter's pronunciation before a consonant varies from word to word. The only way to know for sure is to listen to someone speaking with the regional accent you wish to emulate.

Words Beginning with ‘X’

When a word begins with x (there aren't many such words, and most are English cognates), it is usually given the "s" sound, not the "z" sound of English. Thus a word like xenofobia sounds the same as if it were spelled senofobia.

‘X’ in Mexican Place Names

In some Mexican place names, indeed in the name of México itself, the x is pronounced the same as the Spanish letter j (or the english h). "Oaxaca," for example, sounds like "Wa-HA-ka."

‘X’ with a ‘Sh’ Sound

Making matters more confusing is that in a few words of Catalan, Basque or indigenous American origin the x is pronounced like the English "sh." This is especially common in southern Mexican and Central American place names. The No. 2 city of Guatemala, for example, is Xela, pronounced something like "SHEL-lah."

Is there a Spanish language word that ends in x, because that form is not listed above. I can't think of one off top of my head. Although if you treat an x ending as the ks sound, you're saying that Costa Ricans should be pronounced as "ticks".

[StateBoiler]

Which Democrats are using it?

Staffers and PR interns on Twitter, apparently.

BIPOC seems to be catching on and it's even worse. I can safely say I have never met a Black person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I have never met an Indigenous person who wanted to be referred to as a BIPOC. I don't know where these people are. Maybe tucked in the Oberlin sociology department or something?

The main problem with BIPOC is that no one knows what it means. The #1 rule of coining new terms is that it should be clear what it means. No one can agree on whether BIPOC includes Asians or not.

BILAP is a step up on that front, since it explicitly mentions Latinos, Asians, and Pacific Islanders. But yeah, the constantly shifting acronyms are a bit off-putting.

BILAP...use that term repeatedly at a black majority event and see how far you go.

I did see the BIPOC term recently in a non-political setting, it was of rugby teams at BIPOC universities starting up, which considering we don't really have universities for minorities other than blacks and it was clearly about black schools, I was wondering why they didn't just use HBCU.

[Edu]

Well most Americans taught Spanish are taught it from a Mexican or Central American perspective because that's the people that speak Spanish and live here. There's probably more Guatemalans living in the U.S. than there are Chileans or Argentines.

https://www.thoughtco.com/pronouncing-the-spanish-x-3079549

If I'm reading that thing you posted correctly then it says that the only words with a X that are pronounced like an H are some mexican and central american place names. Hardly representative of how the X sounds.

Is there a Spanish language word that ends in x, because that form is not listed above. I can't think of one off top of my head. Although if you treat an x ending as the ks sound, you're saying that Costa Ricans should be pronounced as "ticks".

As far as I know, most words that end in X are basically pronounced "ks" or similar

Felix, tórax, cérvix, latex, ántrax, fénix


EDIT: also, some of the times were the X is pronounced like a J or english H is of some places or names that are written in old spanish. For instance, the gobernor of Buenos Aires in 1820 was called Ildefonso Ramos Mexia, but it is typically pronounced Ramos Mejia). That is mostly from before the 20th century, however.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

1. Drawing more attention to it (even in a negative way) will hurt Democrats, so it's better to ignore it and treat it like the non-issue that it is.

But that's not what they're doing...see the above tweet.

2. Some activists would raise a fuss about it.

So some random anime or picrew avatars on Twitter will post some whining that Democrats don't say that word if they don't...who cares? Why not just ignore them? Like half of them are too young to vote anyway.

[Figueira]

Throw on top of it the x in the Spanish language makes an h sound, that's how you can tell Latinx did not come from Spanish language speakers: try and say Latinx as a native Spanish speaker naturally making an h sound at the end.

Have I been speaking spanish wrong all my life or this is blatantly false?

As with most of the people who are commenting on this, he doesn't actually know Spanish. He is probably thinking in the word "Mexico" where it does sound like an English h.

Well most Americans taught Spanish are taught it from a Mexican or Central American perspective because that's the people that speak Spanish and live here. There's probably more Guatemalans living in the U.S. than there are Chileans or Argentines.

https://www.thoughtco.com/pronouncing-the-spanish-x-3079549

You may have noticed that the Spanish x is sometimes pronounced like the English x, but sometimes like the English s. If so, you might be wondering: Are there rules about when it is pronounced as an "x" and when it's pronounced as an "s"?

‘X’ Between Vowels

Due to regional variations, there aren't any rules that hold true throughout the Spanish-speaking world. In general, however, when between vowels (as in exactamente) the Spanish x is pronounced like the English "ks" sound but softer or less explosive.

‘X’ Before Another Consonant

When it comes before another consonant (as in expedición), it has the "s" sound in some regions/countries but the soft "ks" sound in others. In some areas, the letter's pronunciation before a consonant varies from word to word. The only way to know for sure is to listen to someone speaking with the regional accent you wish to emulate.

Words Beginning with ‘X’

When a word begins with x (there aren't many such words, and most are English cognates), it is usually given the "s" sound, not the "z" sound of English. Thus a word like xenofobia sounds the same as if it were spelled senofobia.

‘X’ in Mexican Place Names

In some Mexican place names, indeed in the name of México itself, the x is pronounced the same as the Spanish letter j (or the english h). "Oaxaca," for example, sounds like "Wa-HA-ka."

‘X’ with a ‘Sh’ Sound

Making matters more confusing is that in a few words of Catalan, Basque or indigenous American origin the x is pronounced like the English "sh." This is especially common in southern Mexican and Central American place names. The No. 2 city of Guatemala, for example, is Xela, pronounced something like "SHEL-lah."

Is there a Spanish language word that ends in x, because that form is not listed above. I can't think of one off top of my head. Although if you treat an x ending as the ks sound, you're saying that Costa Ricans should be pronounced as "ticks".

Mexican Spanish still has x making the /ks/ sound--just not in the word México. "Excelente" is a well-known (to English speakers) example of a Spanish word where x is pronounced /ks/.

This is all irrelevant to Latinx though. The "eks" pronunciation is definitely not a thing in Spanish.

[Edu]

I admit I dislike this inclusive language nonsense, so I'm probably a bit biased but I just recently found out that people who say "Latinx" pronounce it like "Latinex" or something, I always thought it was pronounced Latinx with the "ks" thing (Like when you pronounce Sphinx in english). Never gave it much thought to be honest lol