Canada Federal Representation 2024

[MaxQue]

Else, I'm satisfied with the proposal for my local area (absolutely no change).

[toaster]

The cutting off of Soulanges / Les Cèdres area from Vaudreuil seems odd.

[MaxQue]

The cutting off of Soulanges / Les Cèdres area from Vaudreuil seems odd.

Makes sense, through. Vaudreuil is overpopulated, the areas removed have also good links to Valleyfield and actually put all of Soulanges in the same riding (the western parts of it were already in Salaberry-Suroit). The provincial riding limit between Vaudreuil and Soulanges is there too.

[Hatman 🍁]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

[MaxQue]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

I've seen speculation that they don't want to be associated with the Conservative MP.

[Hatman 🍁]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

I've seen speculation that they don't want to be associated with the Conservative MP.

Which is weird, because they still vote for him.

[Poirot]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

I've seen speculation that they don't want to be associated with the Conservative MP.

Which is weird, because they still vote for him.

Do they vote in elections? I thought the reason could be they don't recognize the political system or something of that nature.

The electoral map would henceforth include at least one reference, generally geographical, to each of the 11 Indigenous nations that make up 55 communities in Quebec, including 14 northern villages.

Last time the theme was let's add names of famous people. This time it's indigenous words. I don't know if the other commissions did that, like some suggestion in the mandate.

To represent the mohawk, the word atateken is added to La Prairie. It's not a geographic name. I imagine it was added here because Kahnawake has the biggest mohawk population today. They don't take part in the census and there are very few votes cast there.

I've added again the population without the reserve and it,s the population of the riding. They count for zero. La Prairie has near 115,000. I've found a population number of 7,900 for Kahnawake on a Quebec government webpage. It would give near 123,000 people in the riding, probably the biggest in Quebec and the commission would say we need to decrease the population a little. If the reserve count for zerop person, why not add it to Châteauguay like in provincial riding. It would not change numbers.

[Poirot]

I was reading on some reactions to the proposal for Gaspésie. Mps, mayors and head of MRC are not happy. The regional minister finds it a short time to organized because it's been released in summer holidays and the hearing is the beginning of September so 1 month to prepare. They will advocate for not losing a seat or at least respect administrative region and MRC. It looks a bit like the old riding was cut in the middle to give part to each adjacent ridings.

I looked in this thread to find proposals. I found this post:
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=467200.msg8539944#msg8539944

The fifth map in the post. It shows a Gaspésie riding of 89,000. It's a bit small but seems to make sense. Rimouski-Matane is 108,000.  The riding next to the west is 92,000, the rest of Bas St-Laurent, Témiscouata.

MP for Lévis-Lotbinière is against splitting part of Lotbinière MRC (where he lives) to put into Mégantic L'érable. He says people making decision don't know the territory. He says the conservatice caucus of the region will discuss and he will make a proposal.

[Hatman 🍁]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

I've seen speculation that they don't want to be associated with the Conservative MP.

Which is weird, because they still vote for him.

Do they vote in elections? I thought the reason could be they don't recognize the political system or something of that nature.

Well, those on the reserve that do vote, vote Conservative. Though, roughly 20% of the reserve is White.

I've added again the population without the reserve and it,s the population of the riding. They count for zero. La Prairie has near 115,000. I've found a population number of 7,900 for Kahnawake on a Quebec government webpage. It would give near 123,000 people in the riding, probably the biggest in Quebec and the commission would say we need to decrease the population a little. If the reserve count for zerop person, why not add it to Châteauguay like in provincial riding. It would not change numbers.

FTR, JP has given Kahnawake a population of 10,600 in ridingbuilder.

[MaxQue]

Interesting that they added Indigenous names to several ridings, but the Huron-Wendats in Wendake did not want their name added to their riding.

I've seen speculation that they don't want to be associated with the Conservative MP.

Which is weird, because they still vote for him.

Do they vote in elections? I thought the reason could be they don't recognize the political system or something of that nature.

Oh, they do recoginize the government. They are very establishment-like, there is a significant white population in the reservation and many businesses established in it (that employs both Natives and non-Native employees) due to being embedded in Quebec City and the more favourable tax status.

[Krago]

I have made a few alterations to my federal riding proposals, if anyone cares (the Commissions certainly don't). 

You can see them here, as always:  https://www.bit.ly/Canada343


New Brunswick

• keep the proposed ridings of Acadie--Bathurst and Madawaska--Restigouche as proposed by the Commission, and as well as the new Fredericton boundary on the north side of the river
• pump up the population of Miramichi--Grand Lake by adding the Tobique area
• reduce Fredericton's population by moving Lincoln Parish - including the airport - to Gagetown--Kennebecasis
• add a strip of Saint John County along the Bay of Fundy to Saint John--Grand Bay-Westfield
• balance the populations of Moncton--Dieppe and Beauséjour by returning the eastern part of Dieppe - including the airport
• improve a few proposed riding names

Ontario

• include an alternative proposal for the Ottawa area, by returning Blossom Park to Ottawa South in exchange for attaching Blackburn Hamlet to Carleton riding
• use Brian Coburn Blvd and Trim Rd as the boundary between Orleans and Prescott--Russell--Cumberland

Alberta

• move the area between the Trans-Canada Highway and the Tsuut'ina Nation to Banff--Mountain View
• move the Kainai Nation to Foothills
• move the area around Taber, south of the Oldman River, to Medicine Hat--Cardston--Warner
• move the area around Nobleford and Picture Butte to Bow River

British Columbia

• bring Skeena--Bulkley Valley closer to the provincial population quotient by adding the area around Vanderhoof
• make Prince George--Peace River--Northern Rockies more Prince Georgier, while at the same time make Cariboo--Prince George more Caribooier
• improve the population balance in the southern Okanagan by adding downtown Kelowna and the North End to Central Okanagan--Kelowna
• the ripple effect would move Summerland and Kaleden to Fraser Canyon--Coquihalla--Sea-to-Sky Country
• the boundary between Fraser Canyon--Coquihalla--Sea-to-Sky Country and Mission--Matsqui--Abbottsford  would move east to Harrison River and Harrison Lake

I will look over the Quebec proposals and the Newfoundland and Labrador proposals from the Commissions, to see if I can add their thesis to my antithesis and generate a synthesis.

Manitoba?  Nobody cares.

[Poirot]

The Quebec commission seems to try to make riding population more equal within a region. Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean keep three ridings but boundaries are changed within the three. Some towns from Lac-Saint-Jean are shifted to Jonquière and I've read mayors of those communities are against the transfer.

I think I am too muc of a limitologist. I thought we should try and respect city limits or borough limits. When I look ar the proposed map I hyperventilate.

I don't know if it required to change Longueuil-Saint-Hubert. A small portion of Longueuil is put in Pierre-Boucher-Verchères.

The northwest portion of Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, a district with a 5.6% surplus, would be transferred to Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, an electoral district with a 5.5% deficit.

The variance was not big to begin with and Longueuil is already in three ridings so maybe move around parts between the three instead of putting a small part in a fourth one.

There are close up maps of Prévost and L'Assomption, two big metropolis!, to show the division of these places in two ridings.

There are a few streets of Terrebonne near Blainville that are transferred to Thésèse-de-Blainville. Maybe they feel closer to Blainville but if it's the case maybe add the streets not transfered just to the north of the streets that are.

I think the borough of Ville-Marie is going to be split in five ridings now. Hochelaga gains a few streets from laurier-Sainte-Marie. Westmount-NDG goes a few streets more east towards downtown. Outremont covers all Mount Royal (could be a good name if not already used) including the south side (towards downtown).

I don't know what is the reaction of Valcourt being moved to Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot. It's more Estrie than Montérégie. The town to the east is put in Richmond-Arthabaska. The commission could have proposed the name Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton. It seems to be the name people chose but legislation was not approved in time.

[Hatman 🍁]

• include an alternative proposal for the Ottawa area, by returning Blossom Park to Ottawa South in exchange for attaching Blackburn Hamlet to Carleton riding

This is kind of awkward. Blossom Park is pretty separated from the rest of Carleton. I don't think  they'd go for it.

The Quebec commission seems to try to make riding population more equal within a region. Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean keep three ridings but boundaries are changed within the three. Some towns from Lac-Saint-Jean are shifted to Jonquière and I've read mayors of those communities are against the transfer.

I think I am too muc of a limitologist. I thought we should try and respect city limits or borough limits. When I look ar the proposed map I hyperventilate.

I don't know if it required to change Longueuil-Saint-Hubert. A small portion of Longueuil is put in Pierre-Boucher-Verchères.

The northwest portion of Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, a district with a 5.6% surplus, would be transferred to Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, an electoral district with a 5.5% deficit.

The variance was not big to begin with and Longueuil is already in three ridings so maybe move around parts between the three instead of putting a small part in a fourth one.

There are close up maps of Prévost and L'Assomption, two big metropolis!, to show the division of these places in two ridings.

There are a few streets of Terrebonne near Blainville that are transferred to Thésèse-de-Blainville. Maybe they feel closer to Blainville but if it's the case maybe add the streets not transfered just to the north of the streets that are.

I think the borough of Ville-Marie is going to be split in five ridings now. Hochelaga gains a few streets from laurier-Sainte-Marie. Westmount-NDG goes a few streets more east towards downtown. Outremont covers all Mount Royal (could be a good name if not already used) including the south side (towards downtown).

I don't know what is the reaction of Valcourt being moved to Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot. It's more Estrie than Montérégie. The town to the east is put in Richmond-Arthabaska. The commission could have proposed the name Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton. It seems to be the name people chose but legislation was not approved in time.

In looking at the Quebec proposal, the commission got pretty lazy tacking on the Golden Square Mile to Outremont. That area is separated from the rest of the riding by Mount Royal. Pretty dumb.

[MaxQue]

The Quebec commission seems to try to make riding population more equal within a region. Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean keep three ridings but boundaries are changed within the three. Some towns from Lac-Saint-Jean are shifted to Jonquière and I've read mayors of those communities are against the transfer.

I think I am too muc of a limitologist. I thought we should try and respect city limits or borough limits. When I look ar the proposed map I hyperventilate.

I don't know if it required to change Longueuil-Saint-Hubert. A small portion of Longueuil is put in Pierre-Boucher-Verchères.

The northwest portion of Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, a district with a 5.6% surplus, would be transferred to Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, an electoral district with a 5.5% deficit.

The variance was not big to begin with and Longueuil is already in three ridings so maybe move around parts between the three instead of putting a small part in a fourth one.

There are close up maps of Prévost and L'Assomption, two big metropolis!, to show the division of these places in two ridings.

There are a few streets of Terrebonne near Blainville that are transferred to Thésèse-de-Blainville. Maybe they feel closer to Blainville but if it's the case maybe add the streets not transfered just to the north of the streets that are.

I think the borough of Ville-Marie is going to be split in five ridings now. Hochelaga gains a few streets from laurier-Sainte-Marie. Westmount-NDG goes a few streets more east towards downtown. Outremont covers all Mount Royal (could be a good name if not already used) including the south side (towards downtown).

I don't know what is the reaction of Valcourt being moved to Saint-Hyacinthe-Bagot. It's more Estrie than Montérégie. The town to the east is put in Richmond-Arthabaska. The commission could have proposed the name Saint-Hyacinthe-Acton. It seems to be the name people chose but legislation was not approved in time.

In looking at the Quebec proposal, the commission got pretty lazy tacking on the Golden Square Mile to Outremont. That area is separated from the rest of the riding by Mount Royal. Pretty dumb.

I'm pretty sure they proposed that in 2012, too.

[Krago]

All Quebec is divided into three parts.

Montreal/Laval: 2,442,631 (2021 Census population) - 22 current FEDs
North of M/L and the St. Lawrence River: 3,157,743 - 29 current FEDs
South of M/L and the St. Lawrence River: 2,901, 459 - 27 current FEDs

Now that Quebec gets to keep their 78 seats, here's how the seats should be distributed equitably:

Montreal/Laval: 22.4
North of the River: 29.0
South of the River: 26.6

My proposal (bit.ly/Canada343) allows each section to keep their existing number of seats (22/29/27).

However, the Commission "is also proposing removing a seat in Gaspésie and creating a new district north of Montréal in the Laurentians."  So they've decided to move a riding from south of the river to the north side, regardless of the relative populations of the two sections.  They could easily have made the changes they're proposing in those two areas without changing the number of seats on each side of the river.

So here's my question: should I submit a new riding map using their 22/30/26 split, or should I encourage them to consider my original 22/29/27 map?

[Poirot]

So here's my question: should I submit a new riding map using their 22/30/26 split, or should I encourage them to consider my original 22/29/27 map?

I don't know if they are willing to go back on the Gaspésie-Laurentides change. There will be criticism in Gaspésie. I don't know how the changes are received in Laurentides. I prefer your Gaspésie and Outaouais. For Outaouais I imagine the commission would say to many people in ridings on average.

Seeing there are complaints of some transfers from Lac-Saint-Jean to Jonquière, your map puttin Chicoutimi and Charlevoix together would cause uproar. Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean will get fully three ridings so your split might not work. I would go with the commission's split because it's difficult to know how much are they willing to change it back.

[Hatman 🍁]

The thing is, northern Quebec has a couple of remote regions which need to have under populated ridings, so I think you'd have to re-do the math excluding Abitibi-Temiscamingue, James Bay-Nunavik and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean/Manicouagan.

[Krago]

The thing is, northern Quebec has a couple of remote regions which need to have under populated ridings, so I think you'd have to re-do the math excluding Abitibi-Temiscamingue, James Bay-Nunavik and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean/Manicouagan.

You're right.  It comes down to whether you think Saguenay/Lac Saint-Jean should be a protected area.  Here are the 'seat entitlements' based on 78 ridings:

Abitibi/Manicouagan -- 2.58
Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean -- 2.53
Charlevoix -- 0.26
Rest of North of the River -- 23.60
Montreal/Laval -- 22.41
Gaspesie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine/Bas-Saint-Laurent -- 2.65
Rest of South of the River -- 23.97


If you let Abitibi/Manicouagan and Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean each retain their three seats, and keep Charlevoix with their Capitale neighbours then dividing the rest of the province into 72 seats gives you these numbers:

Rest of the North (incl. Charlevoix) - 23.57, Montreal/Laval - 22.14, South - 26.29  (Total 72)

It would make sense for the area south of the St. Lawrence to lose a riding.


However, if you think les bleuets have had it too good for too long, and admit Charlevoix to their little club, then the numbers shift slightly:

Rest of the North - 23.39, Montreal/Laval - 22.22, South - 26.39  (Total 72)

It becomes a toss-up.


If you think Gaspesie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine/Bas-Saint-Laurent should be allowed to keep three seats, along with Abitibi/Manicouagan and Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean (au revoir, Charlevoix!), then the rest of Quebec would have 69 seats to divide amongst themselves:

Rest of the North  (incl. Charlevoix) - 23.44, Montreal/Laval - 22.01, Rest of the South - 23.55  (Total 69)

And the southern riding magically reappears!

[Poirot]

Some opposition to the changes proposed in the Quebec City region.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2022/08/08/revision-de-la-carte-electorale-federale-des-milliers-delecteurs-deracines-de-leur-comte

Lac-Beauport and Saint-Brigitte-de-Laval were in Portneuf-Jacques-Cartier riding but now would be put in the Ile-d'Orléans-Charlevoix riding. The mayor of Saint-Brigitte-de-Laval will oppose the change, would want things to stay the same and they are part of the MRC de la Jacques-Cartier.

Wendake doesn't mind joining Charlesbourg riding.

The sectors of Charlesbourg borough, Château-Bigot and Montagne-des-Roches, are moved to the Charlevoix riding, Côte-de-Beaupré–Île d’Orléans–Charlevoix. The MP will oppose that.

(The difficult thing seems to be putting parts of Quebec City in the big riding to the east that cover Charlevoix)

The article notes that the commission says "It also proposes reuniting the entire borough of Beauport, which currently straddles two electoral districts bearing that name, by moving the eastern boundary of Beauport—Limoilou to the Montmorency River. " But it is not the case, some people in Beauport will vote in the Charlevoix riding so two districts.

[Hatman 🍁]

The thing is, northern Quebec has a couple of remote regions which need to have under populated ridings, so I think you'd have to re-do the math excluding Abitibi-Temiscamingue, James Bay-Nunavik and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean/Manicouagan.

You're right.  It comes down to whether you think Saguenay/Lac Saint-Jean should be a protected area.  Here are the 'seat entitlements' based on 78 ridings:

Abitibi/Manicouagan -- 2.58
Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean -- 2.53
Charlevoix -- 0.26
Rest of North of the River -- 23.60
Montreal/Laval -- 22.41
Gaspesie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine/Bas-Saint-Laurent -- 2.65
Rest of South of the River -- 23.97


If you let Abitibi/Manicouagan and Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean each retain their three seats, and keep Charlevoix with their Capitale neighbours then dividing the rest of the province into 72 seats gives you these numbers:

Rest of the North (incl. Charlevoix) - 23.57, Montreal/Laval - 22.14, South - 26.29  (Total 72)

It would make sense for the area south of the St. Lawrence to lose a riding.


However, if you think les bleuets have had it too good for too long, and admit Charlevoix to their little club, then the numbers shift slightly:

Rest of the North - 23.39, Montreal/Laval - 22.22, South - 26.39  (Total 72)

It becomes a toss-up.


If you think Gaspesie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine/Bas-Saint-Laurent should be allowed to keep three seats, along with Abitibi/Manicouagan and Saguenay/Lac Saint Jean (au revoir, Charlevoix!), then the rest of Quebec would have 69 seats to divide amongst themselves:

Rest of the North  (incl. Charlevoix) - 23.44, Montreal/Laval - 22.01, Rest of the South - 23.55  (Total 69)

And the southern riding magically reappears!

I think there's less of a case of Gaspesie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine/Bas-Saint-Laurent being special enough for protection vs the more remote Abitibi-Temiscamingue and Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean areas.

Charlevoix is an interesting case, because while it's in the Capitale-Nationale region, it is somewhat remote, and is in a transitional area between Quebec City and parts beyond. It was also lumped in with the Haute-Côte-Nord area before the 2012 redistribution, but much of its population base was still in Quebec City.

[DL]

Are we ever going to get a proposed new map for Ontario???

[Krago]

Are we ever going to get a proposed new map for Ontario???

In 2012, the Ontario proposals were released on August 28.  The public hearings ran from October 9 to November 21.

For the record, my Ontario proposals were released on February 11. 

[Krago]

If you like this sort of thing, then this is the sort of thing that you like.

https://www.saltwire.com/nova-scotia/news/name-that-district-newfoundland-and-labrador-has-had-121-different-designations-for-provincial-political-precincts-545836/


Also, I have revised my federal map for Newfoundland and Labrador.  I agree with five of the seven boundaries proposed by the Commission, but I'm sticking with my Conception Bay South and Bonavista--Burin--Avalon alternatives.

With regard to names, I think changing Coast of Bays--Central--Notre Dame to Notre Dame--Bay d'Espoir is a good idea.  However, I would keep the current names for the two St. John's districts.  One suggestion would be to remove East and South, and rename them St. John's--Cape St. Francis and St. John's--Cape Spear.

[DL]

Why must they always split St. John's down the middle and make two "rurban" seats as opposed to having a purely urban inner city St. St. John's seats and another seat that is more suburbs and exurbs and some of rural Avalon?

[The Right Honourable Martin Brian Mulroney PC CC GOQ]

Why must they always split St. John's down the middle and make two "rurban" seats as opposed to having a purely urban inner city St. St. John's seats and another seat that is more suburbs and exurbs and some of rural Avalon?

A St. John's-only riding would be 43% above quota. To be fair, the weird Labrador factor means that the ridings on the island are always a bit above quota, but 43% is too much. It would be possible to have one St. John's proper riding, and a suburban riding including the outskirts of St. John's with the surrounding towns like Mt Pearl, Torbay etc, but you'd break decades of custom to do that. And as far as I know, those towns are pretty closely connected to the city, so I think it's mainly a matter of if it ain't broke, don't fix it.