Poorest European Countries/Richest African countries

[thebeloitmoderate]

A reversal of eurocentric economic worldview

[ingemann]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

[Santander]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

Moldova is so aggressively poor and ugly. It's basically the only non-Balkan country in Europe I consider unlivable.

[Storr]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

Moldova is so aggressively poor and ugly. It's basically the only non-Balkan country in Europe I consider unlivable.

At least they produce good wine. I'd rather live in Moldova than Belarus, authoritarian government of the latter aside, simply because Moldova has better weather.

[Red Velvet]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

There’s no reason for this other than you know what.
Besides economic, there’s not even cultural reason, as SA is way more lively country too. Moldova and some other European countries (including some of the rich) just look depressing as hell.

[thebeloitmoderate]

Not trying to be off topic but there's successful british actors of sub saharan african descent
Idris Elba
John Boyega
Daniel Kaaluya
Chiwfel Elinjorfol 

[Pericles]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

There’s no reason for this other than you know what.
Besides economic, there’s not even cultural reason, as SA is way more lively country too. Moldova and some other European countries (including some of the rich) just look depressing as hell.

Doesn't South Africa have one of the highest crime rates in the world?

[Meclazine for Israel]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

Moldova is so aggressively poor and ugly. It's basically the only non-Balkan country in Europe I consider unlivable.

South Africa has as an adult HIV+ rate of 27%.

And they have despicable social safety:

https://mg.co.za/news/2021-07-08-hate-killings-of-black-lesbians-in-south-africa-2008-to-2018/

[Mr. Smith]

I'd wager Egypt, Botswana, and Nigeria are better off than most of The Balkans.

[Big Abraham]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

Moldova is so aggressively poor and ugly. It's basically the only non-Balkan country in Europe I consider unlivable.

Besides Br*tain, of course.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

[If my soul was made of stone]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

I've heard of Gabon specifically being mostly a heavily-subsidized petrostate where very little of the wealth goes anywhere outside of the ruling class or foreign investors (if there can be said to be much of a difference).

[Crumpets]

One of my best friends in college was Moldovan, so I've had an affinity for it ever since. I always root for it in the Eurovision Song Contest and the Olympics.

[Santander]

I'd wager Egypt, Botswana, and Nigeria are better off than most of The Balkans.

Lol, no. Nigeria is not even well off by African standards.

[Lechasseur]

One of my best friends in college was Moldovan, so I've had an affinity for it ever since. I always root for it in the Eurovision Song Contest and the Olympics.

There were some Moldovan and Romanian girls in college with me and they were absolutely gorgeous, along with being nice people.

I've had an affinity for those two countries ever since as well due to that.

[vitoNova]

Despite the disturbing prevalence of "squat toilets"--even in "fancy" restaurants-- the Balkans ain't so bad.  It's like bizzarro-world Europe. 

[CumbrianLefty]

Albania was traditionally the long term holder of the "poorest country in Europe" trophy.

[parochial boy]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

It depends - Botswana has much higher living standards than most of Africa, even if it still has a quite surprising levels of rural poverty that you might not expect from a country with a similar income to, say, Thailand. In contrast, Equatorial Guinea is a disaster, and has pretty bad living standards even by African standards - such is the breathtaking kleptocracy of the ruling regime.

Honestly, the best place in Africa to live is probably Mauritius. Seychelles would be there too, but it has a pretty nasty problem with heroin addiction.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

It depends - Botswana has much higher living standards than most of Africa, even if it still has a quite surprising levels of rural poverty that you might not expect from a country with a similar income to, say, Thailand. In contrast, Equatorial Guinea is a disaster, and has pretty bad living standards even by African standards - such is the breathtaking kleptocracy of the ruling regime.

Honestly, the best place in Africa to live is probably Mauritius. Seychelles would be there too, but it has a pretty nasty problem with heroin addiction.

The island countries in Africa in general seem better off than the mainland (Mauritius, Seychelles, Cabo Verde, etc). Is this real, and is there a reason behind it?

[Mike88]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

It depends - Botswana has much higher living standards than most of Africa, even if it still has a quite surprising levels of rural poverty that you might not expect from a country with a similar income to, say, Thailand. In contrast, Equatorial Guinea is a disaster, and has pretty bad living standards even by African standards - such is the breathtaking kleptocracy of the ruling regime.

Honestly, the best place in Africa to live is probably Mauritius. Seychelles would be there too, but it has a pretty nasty problem with heroin addiction.

The island countries in Africa in general seem better off than the mainland (Mauritius, Seychelles, Cabo Verde, etc). Is this real, and is there a reason behind it?

Cape Verde, from what I'm aware of, benefited from not having a civil war after their independence from Portugal in 1975, and for cutting ties with Guinea-Bissau in the 1980's.

[Red Velvet]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

There’s no reason for this other than you know what.
Besides economic, there’s not even cultural reason, as SA is way more lively country too. Moldova and some other European countries (including some of the rich) just look depressing as hell.

Doesn't South Africa have one of the highest crime rates in the world?

That depends on where you live because of high inequality gap. If most people here moved to South Africa, I would guess they would go to the best and safest neighborhoods, which look very appealing and not really much different from most developed places in the world.

While the better options in Moldova, still look quite depressing and without potential of growth, like it was stuck in a past that won’t return. There’s this decadence feel mixed with the depressing vibes.

Honestly, even poorer countries than South Africa would still be more appealing than Moldova, as long as I stayed in the bigger cities. I would go live in Nairobi, Kenya as a “Mzungu” for example, before even considering going to Moldova.

South Africa still >>> Kenya or Nigeria simply because it’s more liberal, being one of the first places in the world to legalize Gay marriage. Besides the economy.

I’m now starting to question which countries I would put below Moldova in the list and there’s only little. Maybe only in comparison with the real poorest in Africa.

Ukraine would be more appealing than Moldova and also some of these African countries I mentioned. But I would still easily pick South Africa over it.

I think it’s weird picking country to live based on one stat tbh, ignoring the contexts. As if it was easy reason when there are others.

[parochial boy]

I've always wondered about African countries like Gabon that nominally post decent GDP and HDI numbers but that don't often make subjective lists of relatively-rich parts of the continent. Are these actually okay places to live for the average person to the same extent that, say, Botswana is, or do their governments just pump a bunch of resource-exports money into favored sectors of society?

It depends - Botswana has much higher living standards than most of Africa, even if it still has a quite surprising levels of rural poverty that you might not expect from a country with a similar income to, say, Thailand. In contrast, Equatorial Guinea is a disaster, and has pretty bad living standards even by African standards - such is the breathtaking kleptocracy of the ruling regime.

Honestly, the best place in Africa to live is probably Mauritius. Seychelles would be there too, but it has a pretty nasty problem with heroin addiction.

The island countries in Africa in general seem better off than the mainland (Mauritius, Seychelles, Cabo Verde, etc). Is this real, and is there a reason behind it?

I wouldn't pretend to have any expertise on the matter, but they are all settler societies - and those tend to always be slightly better off - and all had fairly specific roles in their respective colonial empires. So Cape Verde had the slave trade (erm) transit point thing, Mauritius had the sugar cane economy and import of indentures labourers. So they were colonised earlier, and for a different purpose than the typical scramble for Africa experience. All that contrasts the the likes of Madagascar and Comoros, which are much poorer, and had a different experience of settlement and colonisation.

(or to put it bluntly, a large part of the reason they are wealthier is racism, pure and simple).

Plus then they generally have had more post-independence stability and in the case of Cape Verde, Mauritius and the Seychelles, been able to develop succesful tourist industries. Although whether this was all helped by the points in the first paragraph is an argument you could make.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That depends on where you live because of high inequality gap. If most people here moved to South Africa, I would guess they would go to the best and safest neighborhoods, which look very appealing and not really much different from most developed places in the world.

Even those are appallingly violent from a European perspective. And I suspect also that people who have grown up being able to go wherever they wish in reasonable safety would feel restricted, even constricted, living in a society where that is not the case. Big cities in the United States in the 70s and 80s were disturbing enough in that sense for visiting Europeans.

[It’s so Joever]

I'd wager Egypt, Botswana, and Nigeria are better off than most of The Balkans.

Maybe in the 90’s, but the Balkans have improved since then.

[ingemann]

South Africa may be richer than Moldova, but I would still rather live in Moldova than in South Africa as a random citizen.

There’s no reason for this other than you know what.
Besides economic, there’s not even cultural reason, as SA is way more lively country too. Moldova and some other European countries (including some of the rich) just look depressing as hell.

Doesn't South Africa have one of the highest crime rates in the world?

That depends on where you live because of high inequality gap. If most people here moved to South Africa, I would guess they would go to the best and safest neighborhoods, which look very appealing and not really much different from most developed places in the world.

While the better options in Moldova, still look quite depressing and without potential of growth, like it was stuck in a past that won’t return. There’s this decadence feel mixed with the depressing vibes.

Moldova is not your standard impoverish post Soviet Republic, it's a impoverish post Soviet Republic with rich soil, water and mediterranean climate (at least in the southern half). Also the people I know who moved to Moldova lived like kings just without having to live in gated communities like in South Africa.