Wow, the author of “the emerging democratic majority” (2002) completely walks it back

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The Democratic Party has an unfortunate habit - at a collective, institutional level - of coming across as a little like the sort of person at parties who is always looking over their/your shoulder for someone more important to talk to.

[StateBoiler]

Hispanics haven't changed, they have consistently supported the working class party in US politics.

Sure. Attacking Paid Family Leave is so working class.....

Republicans at this point talk about the actual working class. Sure, it's all just rhetorical posturing, but at least they do mention them, more often than do Democrats at this point. The WWC has  already shifted over to the Republicans in droves and now Latinos are starting to do the same. Soon all the Democrats will have left is the black vote and UMC white/Asian coastal suburbanite liberals. If the Democrats think they are the "party of the working class," well then... act like it goddamnit!

The 1932 Hoover voting base...plus the black vote.

[Associate Justice PiT]

It doesn't help that the loudest voices driving messaging for the Democrats tend to be the kind of people who came from comfortable families but have a lower standard of living than their parents because they borrowed a bunch of money for college and then pursued low-paying media/nonprofit jobs in high cost areas like DC/NYC.

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1469031915768279045?s=20

     Also that a lot of progressives have convinced themselves that America is an apartheid state where minorities form a permanent underclass. The idea of Hispanics believing in the possibility of upward mobility clashes with current progressive messaging, and lefties don't really know what to do about that.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Hispanics haven't changed, they have consistently supported the working class party in US politics.

Sure. Attacking Paid Family Leave is so working class.....

Republicans at this point talk about the actual working class. Sure, it's all just rhetorical posturing, but at least they do mention them, more often than do Democrats at this point. The WWC has  already shifted over to the Republicans in droves and now Latinos are starting to do the same. Soon all the Democrats will have left is the black vote and UMC white/Asian coastal suburbanite liberals. If the Democrats think they are the "party of the working class," well then... act like it goddamnit!

I wouldn't even be so sure about black vote. Elder Black are very loyal to Dems due to "historical" reasons (?), but younger Black are not.


https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-partisan-gender-and-generational-differences-among-black-voters-heading-into-election-day/

[All Along The Watchtower]

The Democratic Party has an unfortunate habit - at a collective, institutional level - of coming across as a little like the sort of person at parties who is always looking over their/your shoulder for someone more important to talk to.

Party of the People tho

[Indy Texas]

     Also that a lot of progressives have convinced themselves that America is an apartheid state where minorities form a permanent underclass. The idea of Hispanics believing in the possibility of upward mobility clashes with current progressive messaging, and lefties don't really know what to do about that.

This is why the national party loses me on so much of the discourse around policing.

Police departments that are a bunch of burly White Ethnic guys who live in the suburbs and commute into the city to crack black teenagers' skulls with batons and shoot them and tase them is largely a Northern/Midwestern city dynamic.

In Houston, the police department actually looks like the people it exists to protect and serve: i.e. it's mostly Hispanic and Black people.

The last two times I've been pulled over by the police, the officer was a Vietnamese man or a Black woman.

In 2020, I did a lot of canvassing for a state house incumbent whose district included a lot of working class Hispanic areas. When I was walking around those neighborhoods, there were a lot of bumper stickers and yard signs expressing support of the police. For many of those households, the police department was a source of stable, middle class employment with good benefits and the ability to "serve the community." It was not seen as an external White force that abused them.

And what happened? That Democratic incumbent lost her election to a Republican who made the absolutely toxic "Defund the Police" messaging into a campaign issue.

If you go down to the Rio Grande Valley to the areas where there was so much swinging to the GOP, the thing about that place is that everybody is Hispanic. It is not a case of poor/working class Hispanics laboring under an oppressive White elite. There aren't any White people. The people who live in the dumpy mobile homes where sewage runs in open ditches along the side of the road are Hispanic, but so are the rich doctors and lawyers and bankers who live in the nice part of town. The police are Hispanic; the teachers are Hispanic; the politicians are Hispanic. If someone is being marginalized or oppressed, it's being done to them by other Hispanic people. Getting them to view themselves as an oppressed BIPOC minority isn't going to work.

[Person Man]

     Also that a lot of progressives have convinced themselves that America is an apartheid state where minorities form a permanent underclass. The idea of Hispanics believing in the possibility of upward mobility clashes with current progressive messaging, and lefties don't really know what to do about that.

This is why the national party loses me on so much of the discourse around policing.

Police departments that are a bunch of burly White Ethnic guys who live in the suburbs and commute into the city to crack black teenagers' skulls with batons and shoot them and tase them is largely a Northern/Midwestern city dynamic.

In Houston, the police department actually looks like the people it exists to protect and serve: i.e. it's mostly Hispanic and Black people.

The last two times I've been pulled over by the police, the officer was a Vietnamese man or a Black woman.

In 2020, I did a lot of canvassing for a state house incumbent whose district included a lot of working class Hispanic areas. When I was walking around those neighborhoods, there were a lot of bumper stickers and yard signs expressing support of the police. For many of those households, the police department was a source of stable, middle class employment with good benefits and the ability to "serve the community." It was not seen as an external White force that abused them.

And what happened? That Democratic incumbent lost her election to a Republican who made the absolutely toxic "Defund the Police" messaging into a campaign issue.

If you go down to the Rio Grande Valley to the areas where there was so much swinging to the GOP, the thing about that place is that everybody is Hispanic. It is not a case of poor/working class Hispanics laboring under an oppressive White elite. There aren't any White people. The people who live in the dumpy mobile homes where sewage runs in open ditches along the side of the road are Hispanic, but so are the rich doctors and lawyers and bankers who live in the nice part of town. The police are Hispanic; the teachers are Hispanic; the politicians are Hispanic. If someone is being marginalized or oppressed, it's being done to them by other Hispanic people. Getting them to view themselves as an oppressed BIPOC minority isn't going to work.

PiT isn't talking out of his ass here. I've thought the same thing and it is a continuation of the right-wing "gotcha" point that "if there weren't any poors, who would be Democrat?" It is kind of true, though but that doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist or that police brutality or the abrogation of civil liberties aren't problems. The problem is that these issues are everyone's problem, not just the problem of a minority. How can these issues be explained this way in more universally interesting terms?

 Democratic policies are great policies, but most people don't see what they are getting out of them because everything talked about is  couched in terms, by the way the media hasn't been a major factor in this, of those who are regularly a victim of ethno-sectarian bigotry, the socially most provocative i.e.( the SJWS, the occasional communist professor, the various tumblr people), or the very poor.

[jojoju1998]

     Also that a lot of progressives have convinced themselves that America is an apartheid state where minorities form a permanent underclass. The idea of Hispanics believing in the possibility of upward mobility clashes with current progressive messaging, and lefties don't really know what to do about that.

This is why the national party loses me on so much of the discourse around policing.

Police departments that are a bunch of burly White Ethnic guys who live in the suburbs and commute into the city to crack black teenagers' skulls with batons and shoot them and tase them is largely a Northern/Midwestern city dynamic.

In Houston, the police department actually looks like the people it exists to protect and serve: i.e. it's mostly Hispanic and Black people.

The last two times I've been pulled over by the police, the officer was a Vietnamese man or a Black woman.

In 2020, I did a lot of canvassing for a state house incumbent whose district included a lot of working class Hispanic areas. When I was walking around those neighborhoods, there were a lot of bumper stickers and yard signs expressing support of the police. For many of those households, the police department was a source of stable, middle class employment with good benefits and the ability to "serve the community." It was not seen as an external White force that abused them.

And what happened? That Democratic incumbent lost her election to a Republican who made the absolutely toxic "Defund the Police" messaging into a campaign issue.

If you go down to the Rio Grande Valley to the areas where there was so much swinging to the GOP, the thing about that place is that everybody is Hispanic. It is not a case of poor/working class Hispanics laboring under an oppressive White elite. There aren't any White people. The people who live in the dumpy mobile homes where sewage runs in open ditches along the side of the road are Hispanic, but so are the rich doctors and lawyers and bankers who live in the nice part of town. The police are Hispanic; the teachers are Hispanic; the politicians are Hispanic. If someone is being marginalized or oppressed, it's being done to them by other Hispanic people. Getting them to view themselves as an oppressed BIPOC minority isn't going to work.

This is true. And I think this is because of many reasons; but one reason is actually quite simple actually.

Strong family ties. I don't want to sound ignorant or racist; But I think  that speaking from experience that Hispanics/Asians have stronger family/community ties than African Americans, and even whites. So they segregate together with other families that are like them, and it becomes a family like community.

[ملكة كرينجيتوك]

This is true. And I think this is because of many reasons; but one reason is actually quite simple actually.

Strong family ties. I don't want to sound ignorant or racist; But I think  that speaking from experience that Hispanics/Asians have stronger family/community ties than African Americans, and even whites. So they segregate together with other families that are like them, and it becomes a family like community.

In my experience this is also true for African immigrant communities, Haitians, and Jamaicans.

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/progressives-need-to-tell-the-positive?

Progressives need to tell this story

Some progressives are certainly still telling this story — especially elected politicians like Biden. But in the age of social media and cable news, progressivism is defined as much by news hosts and NYT writers and university administrators as by senators and governors. We need the thought leaders of this broad progressive movement to turn away from the dark, negativistic story of immigration-as-tragedy, and back to the positive, optimistic traditional story of immigration-as-triumph.

Some progressive activists will resist this story, believing that to trumpet the success of Hispanics will mean blaming Black Americans for persistent gaps in income and other metrics — in other words, the creation of a new Model Minority myth. This is probably why the University of California told its faculty and staff not to say “America is the land of opportunity”. But this makes little sense to me. Is it so crazy to imagine that structural racism in America is primarily directed at Black Americans (and Native Americans), rather than at immigrant groups? Even a casual reading of history suggests that this is the case. There is simply no comparison here, implicit or explicit.

Other progressives may worry that telling a positive story about immigration creates the impression that everything is fine with America, thus sapping popular energy to fight for change. But I see this as wrongheaded. Anger may be a good short-term motivator, but in the long run it turns to despair and encourages passivity. Optimism is necessary for sustained long-term motivation. And a positive story about immigration is exactly the kind of patriotic message that can help progressives draw a contrast with the scare stories that Trump’s movement has been trying to shove down our throats.

[jojoju1998]

This is true. And I think this is because of many reasons; but one reason is actually quite simple actually.

Strong family ties. I don't want to sound ignorant or racist; But I think  that speaking from experience that Hispanics/Asians have stronger family/community ties than African Americans, and even whites. So they segregate together with other families that are like them, and it becomes a family like community.

In my experience this is also true for African immigrant communities, Haitians, and Jamaicans.

https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/progressives-need-to-tell-the-positive?

Progressives need to tell this story

Some progressives are certainly still telling this story — especially elected politicians like Biden. But in the age of social media and cable news, progressivism is defined as much by news hosts and NYT writers and university administrators as by senators and governors. We need the thought leaders of this broad progressive movement to turn away from the dark, negativistic story of immigration-as-tragedy, and back to the positive, optimistic traditional story of immigration-as-triumph.

Some progressive activists will resist this story, believing that to trumpet the success of Hispanics will mean blaming Black Americans for persistent gaps in income and other metrics — in other words, the creation of a new Model Minority myth. This is probably why the University of California told its faculty and staff not to say “America is the land of opportunity”. But this makes little sense to me. Is it so crazy to imagine that structural racism in America is primarily directed at Black Americans (and Native Americans), rather than at immigrant groups? Even a casual reading of history suggests that this is the case. There is simply no comparison here, implicit or explicit.

Other progressives may worry that telling a positive story about immigration creates the impression that everything is fine with America, thus sapping popular energy to fight for change. But I see this as wrongheaded. Anger may be a good short-term motivator, but in the long run it turns to despair and encourages passivity. Optimism is necessary for sustained long-term motivation. And a positive story about immigration is exactly the kind of patriotic message that can help progressives draw a contrast with the scare stories that Trump’s movement has been trying to shove down our throats.

This is actually interesting. African Immigrants from other countries at least the ones I know; actually tend to be more critical of Black Lives Matter.

[HisGrace]

That majority did arrive in 2008, it’s just that democrats squandered it

Yup, the issue is not that the demographic numbers were wrong, it's that the Dems had their shot and completely blew it. One of the big advantages Republican have is that they fundamentally understand why people support them and are able to mobilize their base accordingly whereas the Dems don't.

It doesn't help that the loudest voices driving messaging for the Democrats tend to be the kind of people who came from comfortable families but have a lower standard of living than their parents because they borrowed a bunch of money for college and then pursued low-paying media/nonprofit jobs in high cost areas like DC/NYC.

This is also something I used to bring up during all the old dooming about the growth of Latinos and the end of Republicans. The Dems messaging on the aggregate does not appeal to people who have had success in life, so it stands to reason that as Latinos continue to climb the economic ladder that they'll support the Dems less and less.

[lfromnj]

Ginsburg probably read this book by 2014.

[jojoju1998]

Here's a hot take.

Democrats : SHUT UP ABOUT RACE.

I know. Racism is totally wrong. And we should admit our failings. But we should also talk about what are we going to do now !

Democrats should be the party of the working man. The small business owner. The American dream. Our challenge as Americans is to have a multicultural working class coalition that focuses on higher wages, better jobs, better healthcare and benefits.

Broad based prosperity if designed right, lifts ALL boats.

We should run on shared prosperity not trickle down. Where work is rewarded not wealth. Where we encourage credit unions, and not for profit banks. Where the community is valued. Community.

[Indy Texas]

This is another very relevant point for why you can't assume everyone who isn't White will stand shoulder to shoulder with Black Americans (and vote just like them) out of POC solidarity:

Hispanics do not have the same level of interaction with law enforcement or the criminal justice system that Black people do.

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1469401399976861702?s=20

[jojoju1998]

This is another very relevant point for why expecting everyone who isn't White to stand shoulder to shoulder with Black Americans (and vote just like them) out of POC solidarity:

Hispanics do not have the same level of interaction with law enforcement or the criminal justice system that Black people do.

https://twitter.com/Noahpinion/status/1469401399976861702?s=20

Because like Asian Immigrants, Hispanics don't interact with Law enforcement that much if at all. In fact, where I live in California, one of the challenges of policing is trying to get Asian immigrants and Hispanics to talk more and interact more with Police. There's like a seperate world in these communities, that don't interact with the wider criminal justice sysyem.

[Suburbia]

     Also that a lot of progressives have convinced themselves that America is an apartheid state where minorities form a permanent underclass. The idea of Hispanics believing in the possibility of upward mobility clashes with current progressive messaging, and lefties don't really know what to do about that.

This is why the national party loses me on so much of the discourse around policing.

Police departments that are a bunch of burly White Ethnic guys who live in the suburbs and commute into the city to crack black teenagers' skulls with batons and shoot them and tase them is largely a Northern/Midwestern city dynamic.

In Houston, the police department actually looks like the people it exists to protect and serve: i.e. it's mostly Hispanic and Black people.

The last two times I've been pulled over by the police, the officer was a Vietnamese man or a Black woman.

In 2020, I did a lot of canvassing for a state house incumbent whose district included a lot of working class Hispanic areas. When I was walking around those neighborhoods, there were a lot of bumper stickers and yard signs expressing support of the police. For many of those households, the police department was a source of stable, middle class employment with good benefits and the ability to "serve the community." It was not seen as an external White force that abused them.

And what happened? That Democratic incumbent lost her election to a Republican who made the absolutely toxic "Defund the Police" messaging into a campaign issue.

If you go down to the Rio Grande Valley to the areas where there was so much swinging to the GOP, the thing about that place is that everybody is Hispanic. It is not a case of poor/working class Hispanics laboring under an oppressive White elite. There aren't any White people. The people who live in the dumpy mobile homes where sewage runs in open ditches along the side of the road are Hispanic, but so are the rich doctors and lawyers and bankers who live in the nice part of town. The police are Hispanic; the teachers are Hispanic; the politicians are Hispanic. If someone is being marginalized or oppressed, it's being done to them by other Hispanic people. Getting them to view themselves as an oppressed BIPOC minority isn't going to work.

Long Island/Rockland/Staten Island/Putnam= NYC
Mt. Greenwood=Chicago
Simi Valley=Los Angeles
Vinings/Forsyth=Atlanta

It is kind of true, sadly.