Gov Hochul sends medically-trained National Guard troops to replace unvaccinated healthcare workers

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/AsaadHannaa/status/1442608234578124803

Unfathomably based decision, and I hope the rest of the country follows suit.

[Calthrina950]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

[Damocles]

Based.

[Hammy]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

It's becoming clear that even those who are educated are falling for these disinformation tactics if they're gullible or paranoid enough. And worse, because they're educated, it convinces them even harder that it's impossible for them to be wrong, even if it goes against facts.

[Calthrina950]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

It's becoming clear that even those who are educated are falling for these disinformation tactics if they're gullible or paranoid enough. And worse, because they're educated, it convinces them even harder that it's impossible for them to be wrong, even if it goes against facts.

This is true. As you know, a sizable number of educated people, of very high professional qualifications, supported Trump in both of his presidential bids. The events of this pandemic have demonstrated that there is a considerable overlap between these two categories.

[Yoda]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

I've always thought that any healthcare professional who refused a proven, very effective vaccine could not have been very good at their job to begin with. I think patients should have the right to know if someone they are entrusting with their healthcare is vaccinated or not and have the right to refuse to be treated by an unvaxxed individual.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I can believe I’m saying this, but good. It has to happen.

[dead0man]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

when I was a kid I noticed something about nurses, many of them were fatter than the general population.  A lot them smoked (probably not more than the general population at the time though).  I don't think nurses are, on average, as fat as they were in the 70s/80s, but you still see them from time to time.

I also had a middle school science teacher argue with the class that a shark was a mammal, not a fish.  There are medical doctors who get acupuncture and scientists that believe in young Earth creationism.

"experts" are fallible too.

[dead0man]

While I agree that medical workers should be vaccinated, I don't think they should be firing anyone who didn't get the vaccine but DID get, ya know, actual Covid.  Especially if they got it while at work during a pandemic.  Remember when those people were the heroes?  Remember when a bunch of rich New Yorkers made a big deal patting themselves on their backs for clapping (supposedly) at the medical workers working through the pandemic?

Now some of them are (presumably) getting fired.  Classic New York!

[vitoNova]

Don't you only need an associate's degree to be a nurse?  (or equivalent OJT experience in like, say, the military)

Unless they are actual doctors, I've always lumped in medical support staff together with cops and firefighters.   More blue-collar workers as opposed to members of the "edumuhcated class."

[dead0man]

Don't you only need an associate's degree to be a nurse?  (or equivalent OJT experience in like, say, the military)

Unless they are actual doctors, I've always lumped in medical support staff together with cops and firefighters.   More blue-collar workers as opposed to members of the "edumuhcated class."

there are many layers of nursing.  Some are more trained than some doctors, the lowest may have no official training at all.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

While I agree that medical workers should be vaccinated, I don't think they should be firing anyone who didn't get the vaccine but DID get, ya know, actual Covid.  Especially if they got it while at work during a pandemic.  Remember when those people were the heroes?  Remember when a bunch of rich New Yorkers made a big deal patting themselves on their backs for clapping (supposedly) at the medical workers working through the pandemic?

Now some of them are (presumably) getting fired.  Classic New York!

If they’re choosing not to get vaccinated at this point, they’re choosing to get Covid. They’re putting those around them in more danger.

[Person Man]

I’ll have what she is having. Seriously. Why should you hire people who don’t believe in what they are doing in the first place?

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

It's becoming clear that even those who are educated are falling for these disinformation tactics if they're gullible or paranoid enough. And worse, because they're educated, it convinces them even harder that it's impossible for them to be wrong, even if it goes against facts.

Actually, a lot of nurses are not really all that educated at all. To become a CNA, you only need a handful of community college level classes, and don't have to have any particular actual understanding of the underlying biology and science that modern evidence-based medicine is based upon.

As you can imagine, the nurses that are unvaccinated are disproportionately those sorts of lower-level nurses. There are also other types of nurses that require more education and a better degree than a CNA. This would include e.g. ICU nurses. Those more educated nurses have higher vaccination rates.

And then, as of a couple months ago when there was a survey published, doctors were 99%+ vaccinated.

So it really is to a large extent just a matter of education and scientific understanding. There are also other employees in the health care sector such as cleaning staff and administrative staff and the like, and those are relatively less likely to be vaccinated. They are still employees of hospitals, but are not actual medical staff that make medical decisions and directly perform patient care themselves.

That is not to say that there are no unvaccinated educated people, but there is definitely a strong correlation with education, and that includes with nurses.

[Ferguson97]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

It's becoming clear that even those who are educated are falling for these disinformation tactics if they're gullible or paranoid enough. And worse, because they're educated, it convinces them even harder that it's impossible for them to be wrong, even if it goes against facts.

It’s actually ridiculously easy to become a nurse.

[Sir Mohamed]

Good decision.

I've wondered about vaccine hesitancy among healthcare workers, too. One explanation beyond vaccine skepticism is rejection of being "told" so by institutions of authority such as elected officials like mayors, govs or POTUS. At least that's the notion I realize in my personal life. Not among healthcare workers since I barely know one privately or job-related, though among various other people that aren't against vaccines in general (or even take annual flu shots).

[Santander]

Don't you only need an associate's degree to be a nurse?  (or equivalent OJT experience in like, say, the military)

Unless they are actual doctors, I've always lumped in medical support staff together with cops and firefighters.   More blue-collar workers as opposed to members of the "edumuhcated class."

there are many layers of nursing.  Some are more trained than some doctors, the lowest may have no official training at all.

Maybe technically, in terms of years in the classroom, but the training for NPs is far less rigorous than physician training. But still, they are true professionals unlike most nurses.

[dead0man]

While I agree that medical workers should be vaccinated, I don't think they should be firing anyone who didn't get the vaccine but DID get, ya know, actual Covid.  Especially if they got it while at work during a pandemic.  Remember when those people were the heroes?  Remember when a bunch of rich New Yorkers made a big deal patting themselves on their backs for clapping (supposedly) at the medical workers working through the pandemic?

Now some of them are (presumably) getting fired.  Classic New York!

If they’re choosing not to get vaccinated at this point, they’re choosing to get Covid. They’re putting those around them in more danger.

but they already had Covid.  Sure, you can get it more than one time, but it's (as far as the hypothetical NY medical professional in question knows) not very likely and if you do get it, the second case is likely to not be very bad.  At least that's how they learned about transmissible diseases in school.

To be sure, they might be wrong, but should it be reason to fire them?  I don't think so.

[President Johnson]

My Queen

In all seriousness, a consequent move. Cuomo just pretended to be consequent has reponsibility for countless nursing home deaths. She can't allow people getting sick because she didn't do everything possible under the law. The vaccine is the way out of this pandemic.

[7,052,770]

While I agree that medical workers should be vaccinated, I don't think they should be firing anyone who didn't get the vaccine but DID get, ya know, actual Covid.  Especially if they got it while at work during a pandemic.  Remember when those people were the heroes?  Remember when a bunch of rich New Yorkers made a big deal patting themselves on their backs for clapping (supposedly) at the medical workers working through the pandemic?

Now some of them are (presumably) getting fired.  Classic New York!

Yes it's permissible to change your mind about someone when new information comes out. There was a time when I was a fan of Ray Rice, Kevin Spacey, Oscar Pistorius, and (vomits) Donald Trump.

[dead0man]

While I agree that medical workers should be vaccinated, I don't think they should be firing anyone who didn't get the vaccine but DID get, ya know, actual Covid.  Especially if they got it while at work during a pandemic.  Remember when those people were the heroes?  Remember when a bunch of rich New Yorkers made a big deal patting themselves on their backs for clapping (supposedly) at the medical workers working through the pandemic?

Now some of them are (presumably) getting fired.  Classic New York!

Yes it's permissible to change your mind about someone when new information comes out. There was a time when I was a fan of Ray Rice, Kevin Spacey, Oscar Pistorius, and (vomits) Donald Trump.

They worked, in the medical field, through an epidemic and got the Covid.  Their professional training tells them that they have most, if not all, of the protections against getting Covid again that the vaccine would give them.  We probably shouldn't be so quick to throw them under the bus, and we certainly shouldn't be happy about it.

May I ask what you saw in Trump that made you a fan?

[7,052,770]

They worked, in the medical field, through an epidemic and got the Covid.  Their professional training tells them that they have most, if not all, of the protections against getting Covid again that the vaccine would give them.  We probably shouldn't be so quick to throw them under the bus,

Their "professional training" tells them they're nurses, not doctors, and certainly not researchers, and are therefore unqualified to come up with their own alternative opinions. That's not an elitist thing, it's just how the medical field works. The nurses and orderlies follow directions because they don't know enough to give the directions.

And you're being awfully generous to assume they think they're actually making some kind of medically correct decision rather than just being contrarian, or viewing themselves as defying that evil man wrongfully occupying the White House.

and we certainly shouldn't be happy about it.

Believe me, no one is.

May I ask what you saw in Trump that made you a fan?

I liked The Apprentice in high school and didn't know much else about him.

[Hermit For Peace]

I’ll have what she is having. Seriously. Why should you hire people who don’t believe in what they are doing in the first place?

This is a good thought to ponder.

[Hermit For Peace]

I've never understood why so many healthcare workers have been so ardently opposed to a vaccine mandate. You would think that they, who are on the front lines and who should know better than anyone the value of a vaccine, would have no problems getting vaccinated. But unfortunately, it seems like we have many in the industry who are obstinate and given to conspiracy theories.

It's becoming clear that even those who are educated are falling for these disinformation tactics if they're gullible or paranoid enough. And worse, because they're educated, it convinces them even harder that it's impossible for them to be wrong, even if it goes against facts.

It’s actually ridiculously easy to become a nurse.

That doesn't mean you'll be any good at it. I've known several nurses who were very good, but then they all burned out.

Sometimes nurses are the last to help themselves, that's the type of people they generally are. Very giving.

People are pounding on nurses not getting the vaccine but you have to walk a mile in their shoes to understand the dynamics.

You want nurses to be compassionate and giving, intelligent and good at their job, but you can't separate the person behind the position.

Let's not pound on nurses. They are doing one of the hardest jobs on the planet. It might seem logical to some that they should get vaccinated, but they have their reasons. And now are being punished for them instead of trying to be understood.

Where would we be without nurses?