Mississippi Abortion Ban Case to be Heard December 1 by Supreme Court
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  Mississippi Abortion Ban Case to be Heard December 1 by Supreme Court
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Author Topic: Mississippi Abortion Ban Case to be Heard December 1 by Supreme Court  (Read 5897 times)
Frodo
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« on: September 20, 2021, 05:42:57 PM »

Mark your calendars:

Supreme Court sets Dec. 1 for arguments in challenge to Roe v. Wade
The state law has been blocked by lower courts because it directly violates Roe’s protections for pre-viability abortions.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2021, 06:50:52 PM »

I think they get Roberts as well as Kavanaugh on this one and this is how Roe ends
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2021, 11:03:20 PM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2021, 10:32:36 AM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI

Based on Gorsuch's concurrences and dissents so far, I would be shocked if he doesn't vote to uphold the Mississippi law and overturn Roe. 

We can safely say he would never overturn Obergefell, though. 
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2021, 03:21:31 AM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI
We can safely say he would never overturn Obergefell, though. 

Given Roberts voted against Obergefell, I think he'd vote to overturn it.

Indeed, if a legitimate case seeking to overturn Obergefell made it's way to the Supreme Court, it would probably be a 6-3 decision to overturn. I can't think of a reason for any of the conservative justices to vote for upholding it.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2021, 07:05:04 AM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI
We can safely say he would never overturn Obergefell, though. 

Given Roberts voted against Obergefell, I think he'd vote to overturn it.

Indeed, if a legitimate case seeking to overturn Obergefell made it's way to the Supreme Court, it would probably be a 6-3 decision to overturn. I can't think of a reason for any of the conservative justices to vote for upholding it.


Didn’t Roberts essentially say that he wouldn’t in June Medical? He wrote a whole opinion about how he thought WWH was wrongly decided but he would still rule based on it because it was precedent. I think this is a 5-4 decision with him and the liberals dissenting.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2021, 07:08:36 AM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI
We can safely say he would never overturn Obergefell, though. 

Given Roberts voted against Obergefell, I think he'd vote to overturn it.

Indeed, if a legitimate case seeking to overturn Obergefell made it's way to the Supreme Court, it would probably be a 6-3 decision to overturn. I can't think of a reason for any of the conservative justices to vote for upholding it.


Didn’t Roberts essentially say that he wouldn’t in June Medical? He wrote a whole opinion about how he thought WWH was wrongly decided but he would still rule based on it because it was precedent. I think this is a 5-4 decision with him and the liberals dissenting.

Roberts also knows that discriminating against Gay people is what motivates Republican voters. That and abortion.
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H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2021, 07:09:25 AM »

Looking forward to it, but also very unsure what will occur. Roberts votes with the Liberals fairly often these days, and as a pro-life person, this part of the Gorsuch hearing has always made me wonder if he is actually willing to be the deciding vote to overturn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08EdjHJgoI
We can safely say he would never overturn Obergefell, though. 

Given Roberts voted against Obergefell, I think he'd vote to overturn it.

Indeed, if a legitimate case seeking to overturn Obergefell made it's way to the Supreme Court, it would probably be a 6-3 decision to overturn. I can't think of a reason for any of the conservative justices to vote for upholding it.


Didn’t Roberts essentially say that he wouldn’t in June Medical? He wrote a whole opinion about how he thought WWH was wrongly decided but he would still rule based on it because it was precedent. I think this is a 5-4 decision with him and the liberals dissenting.

Roberts also knows that discriminating against Gay people is what motivates Republican voters. That and abortion.


I don’t think it is anymore. Trans people, yes, but not the gays.
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Hope For A New Era
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2021, 01:19:54 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2021, 11:29:37 AM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

if anything, the overturn of Roe v. Wade would make the judiciary even MORE important in future elections
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Hope For A New Era
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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2021, 12:53:44 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

if anything, the overturn of Roe v. Wade would make the judiciary even MORE important in future elections

Would it? I see it as sending the issue back to the states, where it can be fought as a local battle once again.

Whatever happens, there is a bandaid that needs to be ripped off. Dems need to either pack the court or get ready for the overturn. This has been a point of tension in the country for too long.
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« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2021, 03:50:18 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

if anything, the overturn of Roe v. Wade would make the judiciary even MORE important in future elections

Would it? I see it as sending the issue back to the states, where it can be fought as a local battle once again.

Whatever happens, there is a bandaid that needs to be ripped off. Dems need to either pack the court or get ready for the overturn. This has been a point of tension in the country for too long.

It would be a huge issue in 2022, so yeah, it'd be talked about a lot. Certainly a lot more dems calling for court packing, potentially those against getting primaried, etc.
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« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2021, 05:58:21 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

if anything, the overturn of Roe v. Wade would make the judiciary even MORE important in future elections

Would it? I see it as sending the issue back to the states, where it can be fought as a local battle once again.

Whatever happens, there is a bandaid that needs to be ripped off. Dems need to either pack the court or get ready for the overturn. This has been a point of tension in the country for too long.

People are going to want a new case under a new judiciary that overturns the case that would overturn Roe, so yes it would still be an issue.

The fundamental difference is that the political energy would swing to the pro-choice side, but abortion will continue to be an issue no matter which way the courts go. It's not in the same category as SSM where even opponents are conceding the issue as settled law for the most part, which I'm more bullish on the current Supreme Court upholding.
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afleitch
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2021, 05:21:18 AM »

Yeah, I agree with Scott that it would more than likely energise the pro-choice side (and Dems) in serious and advantageous ways. But the issue would still be political and it would cause short term pain for those in states denied the right to make medical decisions.
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2021, 11:26:48 AM »

Yeah, I agree with Scott that it would more than likely energise the pro-choice side (and Dems) in serious and advantageous ways. But the issue would still be political and it would cause short term pain for those in states denied the right to make medical decisions.

One thing I wish the pro-choice group (individual voters, not necessarily orgs... because they already do) would recognize is that getting an abortion has been virtually impossible for probably close to a majority of states for quite some time. A handful of states have only one clinic. The post-Roe reality has already been here for millions of women for the last few decades, particularly those who can't afford to travel. In that sense, the anti-abortion side/GOP arguably benefits politically from having Roe "upheld", but they still win (most of) the legal battles. From a legality/availability perspective, outright repeal might be short-term pain, but long-term gain. It's not a Pandora's Box that I necessarily want to see open (especially if TX-style restrictions become the norm for these states), but these complex laws are going to be subject to the whims of the judiciary for years to come.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2021, 12:28:33 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

if anything, the overturn of Roe v. Wade would make the judiciary even MORE important in future elections

Maybe this would be the case if it was a federal 14th Amendment right to life from conception decision that struck down laws permitting abortion nationwide, but no one is even seriously considering that.  If it gets left to the states to allow or restrict as they see fit, then within 5-10 years this gets hashed out in the state legislatures with and candidates of either party below the presidential level can safely take the local majority position on abortion.  It could reduce polarization significantly provided that court packing is off the table after an election or two. 
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Leroy McPherson fan
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2021, 07:19:57 PM »

End roe v wade NOW

BAN abortion
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Spark
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« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2021, 09:51:06 PM »

Could this be the final straw that ends Roe?
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Leroy McPherson fan
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« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2021, 10:05:48 PM »

Could this be the final straw that ends Roe?
I sure hope so!
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TrumpBritt24
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« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2021, 01:14:38 PM »

Could this be the final straw that ends Roe?

Here's hoping.
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MarkD
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« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2021, 04:36:57 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2021, 09:27:01 PM by MarkD »


Ending - overturning - Roe v. Wade will not result in banning abortion nationwide. Overturning it will result in returning control of the issue to the states. Most, if not all, (Atlas) red states will still allow abortion to be legal, and many (Atlas) blue states will ban abortion. Women who are in the latter states who need to get an abortion will be able to travel to the former states to get one.

I worry about what else the Supreme Court majority will say if they do overturn Roe. Roe was a misinterpretation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. If the Court does overturn Roe, will they also provide the country with a correct explanation of what the Due Process Clause means? If the Court explains the DP Clause in a manner similar to the way the plurality opinion in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services (1989) explained it, then that will mean the Court will continue to give this country an erroneous interpretation of the Clause and that the only reason the Court is upholding state laws that ban abortion is because the Justices politically agree with anti-abortion laws. It will mean that the Court's ruling will still be politically motivated, and the Court will then come under political pressure to reinstate Roe.

Quote
Attempts to overturn Roe will continue as long as the Court adheres to it. And, so long as the decision remains, the Court will be perceived, correctly, as political and will continue to be the target of demonstrations, marches, television advertisements, mass mailings, and the like. Roe, as the greatest example and symbol of judicial usurpation of democratic prerogatives in this century, should be overturned. The Court's integrity requires that. But even if the case is relegated to the dustbin of history where Dred Scott and Lochner lie, the right of privacy and the judicial techniques and attitudes it represents are likely to remain. A more fundamental rethinking of legitimate judicial power than the mere demise of Roe would signify is required. (Robert Bork, "The Tempting of America," (1990), page 116.)
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« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2021, 08:51:15 PM »

I'm honestly starting to almost hope for the overturn. I just want judges to stop being the obsession in every election. I want the issue to go away. I'm so tired.

So... you want women to lose the right to a potentially life saving medical procedure because... you're tired of hearing about it? Ok.
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politicallefty
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« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2021, 06:42:33 AM »

I'm surprised I haven't seen it anywhere here yet, but the Supreme Court has taken the Texas case and oral arguments are set for November 1st. That's an insanely expedited schedule for the Court nowadays, possibly the fastest case since Bush v. Gore.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2021, 04:00:36 PM »


Ending - overturning - Roe v. Wade will not result in banning abortion nationwide. Overturning it will result in returning control of the issue to the states. Most, if not all, (Atlas) red states will still allow abortion to be legal, and many (Atlas) blue states will ban abortion. Women who are in the latter states who need to get an abortion will be able to travel to the former states to get one.

I worry about what else the Supreme Court majority will say if they do overturn Roe. Roe was a misinterpretation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. If the Court does overturn Roe, will they also provide the country with a correct explanation of what the Due Process Clause means? If the Court explains the DP Clause in a manner similar to the way the plurality opinion in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services (1989) explained it, then that will mean the Court will continue to give this country an erroneous interpretation of the Clause and that the only reason the Court is upholding state laws that ban abortion is because the Justices politically agree with anti-abortion laws. It will mean that the Court's ruling will still be politically motivated, and the Court will then come under political pressure to reinstate Roe.

Quote
Attempts to overturn Roe will continue as long as the Court adheres to it. And, so long as the decision remains, the Court will be perceived, correctly, as political and will continue to be the target of demonstrations, marches, television advertisements, mass mailings, and the like. Roe, as the greatest example and symbol of judicial usurpation of democratic prerogatives in this century, should be overturned. The Court's integrity requires that. But even if the case is relegated to the dustbin of history where Dred Scott and Lochner lie, the right of privacy and the judicial techniques and attitudes it represents are likely to remain. A more fundamental rethinking of legitimate judicial power than the mere demise of Roe would signify is required. (Robert Bork, "The Tempting of America," (1990), page 116.)


The Supreme Court is going to go for a full overturn (as in Fetal Personhood, as in, states can't legalize abortion either) if they do overturn Roe v. Wade.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2021, 07:14:08 PM »


Ending - overturning - Roe v. Wade will not result in banning abortion nationwide. Overturning it will result in returning control of the issue to the states. Most, if not all, (Atlas) red states will still allow abortion to be legal, and many (Atlas) blue states will ban abortion. Women who are in the latter states who need to get an abortion will be able to travel to the former states to get one.

I worry about what else the Supreme Court majority will say if they do overturn Roe. Roe was a misinterpretation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. If the Court does overturn Roe, will they also provide the country with a correct explanation of what the Due Process Clause means? If the Court explains the DP Clause in a manner similar to the way the plurality opinion in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services (1989) explained it, then that will mean the Court will continue to give this country an erroneous interpretation of the Clause and that the only reason the Court is upholding state laws that ban abortion is because the Justices politically agree with anti-abortion laws. It will mean that the Court's ruling will still be politically motivated, and the Court will then come under political pressure to reinstate Roe.

Quote
Attempts to overturn Roe will continue as long as the Court adheres to it. And, so long as the decision remains, the Court will be perceived, correctly, as political and will continue to be the target of demonstrations, marches, television advertisements, mass mailings, and the like. Roe, as the greatest example and symbol of judicial usurpation of democratic prerogatives in this century, should be overturned. The Court's integrity requires that. But even if the case is relegated to the dustbin of history where Dred Scott and Lochner lie, the right of privacy and the judicial techniques and attitudes it represents are likely to remain. A more fundamental rethinking of legitimate judicial power than the mere demise of Roe would signify is required. (Robert Bork, "The Tempting of America," (1990), page 116.)


The Supreme Court is going to go for a full overturn (as in Fetal Personhood, as in, states can't legalize abortion either) if they do overturn Roe v. Wade.

The Court may decide to overturn Roe, but it won't have any basis for requiring States to criminalize all abortions. Even under an extreme pro-life interpretation of originalism, they could only go as far as banning post-quickening abortions (i.e., second and third trimester abortions) as that was the standard under common law at the time of the adoption of the Constitution. There was no statutory law in 1788 in either the UK or the US that banned abortion, only common law which used the quickening standard. There may be a few justices willing to go that far, but not a majority, and in any event, this case can't be used to make such a ruling.
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