Growing Hostility towards Evangelical Christians on Atlas

[Badger]

Xing's post is good.

Religion should not be immune from criticism, and obviously if you express religious-based beliefs that homosexuality is bad, expect as sharp a rebuke on an LGBT-heavy forum as you would if your homophobia was secular-based.  This applies to any religion.  Disliking a religion is not the same thing as say, racism.

Why is criticizing religion good, but criticizing any aspect of homosexuality automatically a "phobia" ?

 Think of all the many non frenon fringe mainstream evangelical churches,  If that were nearly universal among Southern whites Is at least prior to loving versus Virginia yeah, which claimed interracial marriage was against the will of God due to the clear biblical instructions from the the story of Ham. I would assume you and I can both agree in 2021 that theTeachings of said church were contemptible and merely and merely reflective of the biases and prejudices of the congregance and clergy rather than having anything to do with the revealed word of God. I do.

Yet with that in mind, ask yourself the question from 1966, why is criticizing religion bad, but criticizing mesagination between the races is Is automatically some sort of ism.

[Badger]

Xing's post is good.

Religion should not be immune from criticism, and obviously if you express religious-based beliefs that homosexuality is bad, expect as sharp a rebuke on an LGBT-heavy forum as you would if your homophobia was secular-based.  This applies to any religion.  Disliking a religion is not the same thing as say, racism.

Why is criticizing religion good, but criticizing any aspect of homosexuality automatically a "phobia" ?

Homosexuality is not an ideology or belief system.

It's use as a core identity category with specific ethical and social implications absolutely is.

 It's times like this that Atlas needs to move beyond the eye roll emoji to an outright facepalm Emoji..

[Associate Justice PiT]

     While Atlas hostility towards Evangelicals is very bad, the response from the left to this thread make it clear that this hostility is largely based in a secular liberal conviction that everything is political and that Evangelicals merely have the wrong politics. If that hostility is growing (which I am unsure of given my long-term experience on the forum), it is primarily because hostility in society as a whole is growing and a drive to be charitable to your opponents is decreasing.

 When it comes to the religious right, everything is political. They've ended they've endeavored to make it so for over 40 years now.

Evangelists have gone out of their way to to make sure that their own personal religious beliefs that life begins at conception, homosexuality homosexuality and gay marriage are sinful for, et cetera et cetera et cetera are enforced in every church that doesn't believe this as a matter of state or national law. Progressives On the other hand have notSought to have conservative evangelical and CatholicCongregations be forced to marry gay partners or stop preaching to their own adherence not to have an abortion.You really can't both sides this issue.

     It is like you just read one half of one sentence and entirely ignored my point, which was that the treatment of Evangelicals is not particularly unusual or noteworthy. I attributed the secular left's attitude towards them as being a result of that faction being insensible to spiritual things. Evangelicals undoubtedly see a political dimension to their work, but my experiences with them have persuaded me that the assertion often repeated on Atlas that that is the only dimension of their work is unfounded.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

     While Atlas hostility towards Evangelicals is very bad, the response from the left to this thread make it clear that this hostility is largely based in a secular liberal conviction that everything is political and that Evangelicals merely have the wrong politics. If that hostility is growing (which I am unsure of given my long-term experience on the forum), it is primarily because hostility in society as a whole is growing and a drive to be charitable to your opponents is decreasing.

This is 1,000% correct.

[Badger]

What I find interesting is that in a forum that's 40%+ LGBTQ+ (and has been for a decade of more) as well as overwhelming accepting of such traits, this forum could easily have set rules for itself, based on protecting it's membership, that excluded or outright banned conservative Christians completely for expressing contrary views.

It hasn't. If anything it's been tolerant of such views, even in appointing mods.

A strongly 'queer' space has been far more open and respectful of difference than most online or in person conservative Christian spaces.

If anything, it's been overly tolerant.  Many of the evangelical viewpoints and statements made on controversial topics here would get someone fired from a private sector job for promoting discriminatory views among other things.  Here they are pretty much allowed to say whatever they want under the guise of "free expression," liability be damned.    

 And thank goodness for that and free speech. Just as long as the mods don't go  Off in a heavy handed manner to suppress rebuttals criticizing such views.

[Badger]

     While Atlas hostility towards Evangelicals is very bad, the response from the left to this thread make it clear that this hostility is largely based in a secular liberal conviction that everything is political and that Evangelicals merely have the wrong politics. If that hostility is growing (which I am unsure of given my long-term experience on the forum), it is primarily because hostility in society as a whole is growing and a drive to be charitable to your opponents is decreasing.

 When it comes to the religious right, everything is political. They've ended they've endeavored to make it so for over 40 years now.

Evangelists have gone out of their way to to make sure that their own personal religious beliefs that life begins at conception, homosexuality homosexuality and gay marriage are sinful for, et cetera et cetera et cetera are enforced in every church that doesn't believe this as a matter of state or national law. Progressives On the other hand have notSought to have conservative evangelical and CatholicCongregations be forced to marry gay partners or stop preaching to their own adherence not to have an abortion.You really can't both sides this issue.

     It is like you just read one half of one sentence and entirely ignored my point, which was that the treatment of Evangelicals is not particularly unusual or noteworthy. I attributed the secular left's attitude towards them as being a result of that faction being insensible to spiritual things. Evangelicals undoubtedly see a political dimension to their work, but my experiences with them have persuaded me that the assertion often repeated on Atlas that that is the only dimension of their work is unfounded.

 Oh, I read your entire sentence all right. Just speaking as a proud progressive whose Christian spirituality is doing just fine, thank you, I, I stand by that assertion 100%.

Liberals make 0 effort to force orthodox orthodox and conservative churches choose to marry gay's, conservatives have fought and will again if given the opportunity to prohibit gays from being married in is in a civil ceremony or even a religious ceremony for denominations that do not oppose gay marriage.Progressives do not undermine conservatives attempts to loudly preach to their congregance or anyone else that will listen that they should not have an a portion because life begins at conception. Conservative conservatives seek to impose their religious viewpoint that just be point that life, or rather citizenship, believes it conception and no one who differs in this view should be permitted and abortion. Although we've discussed primarily abortion gay marriage, this list goes on and on and on and on for the last 40 plus years.

The fact that the state of California in my humble opinion Is overreached by requiring all places of worship, is suborship, not just of angical ones is one, to congregate only via zoomNotwithstanding the infringement upon catholics and other religious faiths fundamental need need to share Sacrament of communion, Does not even remotely, infantasmally, put put the religious right is religious right and the secular or tolerate left on the same moral ground, or lack thereof, in terms of overreach or trying to Inflict one's own views on the others means of worship and conscience

[Associate Justice PiT]

     While Atlas hostility towards Evangelicals is very bad, the response from the left to this thread make it clear that this hostility is largely based in a secular liberal conviction that everything is political and that Evangelicals merely have the wrong politics. If that hostility is growing (which I am unsure of given my long-term experience on the forum), it is primarily because hostility in society as a whole is growing and a drive to be charitable to your opponents is decreasing.

 When it comes to the religious right, everything is political. They've ended they've endeavored to make it so for over 40 years now.

Evangelists have gone out of their way to to make sure that their own personal religious beliefs that life begins at conception, homosexuality homosexuality and gay marriage are sinful for, et cetera et cetera et cetera are enforced in every church that doesn't believe this as a matter of state or national law. Progressives On the other hand have notSought to have conservative evangelical and CatholicCongregations be forced to marry gay partners or stop preaching to their own adherence not to have an abortion.You really can't both sides this issue.

     It is like you just read one half of one sentence and entirely ignored my point, which was that the treatment of Evangelicals is not particularly unusual or noteworthy. I attributed the secular left's attitude towards them as being a result of that faction being insensible to spiritual things. Evangelicals undoubtedly see a political dimension to their work, but my experiences with them have persuaded me that the assertion often repeated on Atlas that that is the only dimension of their work is unfounded.

 Oh, I read your entire sentence all right. Just speaking as a proud progressive whose Christian spirituality is doing just fine, thank you, I, I stand by that assertion 100%.

Liberals make 0 effort to force orthodox orthodox and conservative churches choose to marry gay's, conservatives have fought and will again if given the opportunity to prohibit gays from being married in is in a civil ceremony or even a religious ceremony for denominations that do not oppose gay marriage.Progressives do not undermine conservatives attempts to loudly preach to their congregance or anyone else that will listen that they should not have an a portion because life begins at conception. Conservative conservatives seek to impose their religious viewpoint that just be point that life, or rather citizenship, believes it conception and no one who differs in this view should be permitted and abortion. Although we've discussed primarily abortion gay marriage, this list goes on and on and on and on for the last 40 plus years.

The fact that the state of California in my humble opinion Is overreached by requiring all places of worship, is suborship, not just of angical ones is one, to congregate only via zoomNotwithstanding the infringement upon catholics and other religious faiths fundamental need need to share Sacrament of communion, Does not even remotely, infantasmally, put put the religious right is religious right and the secular or tolerate left on the same moral ground, or lack thereof, in terms of overreach or trying to Inflict one's own views on the others means of worship and conscience

     I did not mean to imply that your spiritual life had any issues, as I was not thinking of you in speaking of the "secular left". To judge another's spiritual life is a prerogative of God and not of man.

     Likewise I was not attempting to stack Evangelical political activity against progressive political activity as if it makes any sense to compare them. The core of political activism is founded in the assertion of moral truth, and policy is justified from that; if the Evangelical view of abortion is true, then there is no question that it should be outlawed. Likewise, if the progressive view that abortion is an inalienable right is true, then campaigning against its exercise is as dangerous and disruptive to societal well-being as counseling people not to speak freely.

     I merely noted that secular types seem to suppose that Evangelicals are nothing other than a political interest group, and while I firmly believe they are wrong I can understand where their error comes from. I am not responsible for anything else you might read into that, nor do I intend to concern myself any further with claims I did not make.

[#TheShadowyAbyss]

I see evangelical whining again, now they know how the rest of us felt when they used their backwards views to put down religious minorities, LGBTQ+ people and women to further their 2k year old beliefs. Cry more evangelicals say they love everyone and want people to be saved through Christ, yet so their damndest to discriminate against sexual and religious and gender minorities you cant have your cake and eat it to, and people wonder why religion is in the decline in the world

[Cokeland Saxton]

Evangelicals see very little representation in entertainment, for example (and, when we are represented, it's usually a cartoonish portrayal).

LGBTQ+ and people with diasabilities, especially invisible ones like autism or ADHD, feel exactly this wehn it comes to representation in entertainment. It feels like Hollywood is forcing minority characters into their movies and stuff just for the sake of them being there instead of representing them in a way that people in those groups can actually relate to. So I don't really see your point here.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I see evangelical whining again, now they know how the rest of us felt when they used their backwards views to put down religious minorities, LGBTQ+ people and women to further their 2k year old beliefs. Cry more evangelicals say they love everyone and want people to be saved through Christ, yet so their damndest to discriminate against sexual and religious and gender minorities you cant have your cake and eat it to, and people wonder why religion is in the decline in the world

Is that even true?

[All Along The Watchtower]

I see evangelical whining again, now they know how the rest of us felt when they used their backwards views to put down religious minorities, LGBTQ+ people and women to further their 2k year old beliefs. Cry more evangelicals say they love everyone and want people to be saved through Christ, yet so their damndest to discriminate against sexual and religious and gender minorities you cant have your cake and eat it to, and people wonder why religion is in the decline in the world

Is that even true?

Very doubtful.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I see evangelical whining again, now they know how the rest of us felt when they used their backwards views to put down religious minorities, LGBTQ+ people and women to further their 2k year old beliefs. Cry more evangelicals say they love everyone and want people to be saved through Christ, yet so their damndest to discriminate against sexual and religious and gender minorities you cant have your cake and eat it to, and people wonder why religion is in the decline in the world

Is that even true?

Very doubtful.

     Pew projected the growth of different religions from 2010 to 2050:



     It is not guaranteed to come to pass of course, but they predict that the world will be a more religious place in 2050 than it is today. It offers a fascinating counterpoint to the narrative of the demise of religion.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

The narrative of the demise of religion relies on assumptions about things that, to be frank, too often reflect overly lazy ideas about how the religious act and think in general. Maybe that's why it's primarily a narrative above all else...
Religion will never be dead and has never been dead; it has cycled in and out over the many centuries. It could be that the 1900s were something of a high point; we really don't know yet.